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Herd immunity
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"What the hell has Thora Hird got to do with Covid 19?" She's immune by default  | |||
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"Totally agree with Jools. No country is coping well with this and there would have been no way of preventing the virus spreading. It is all about controlling the rate to give Health Services around the globe the best chance of coping. The aim merely to reduce the number of deaths." Stopping people from coming in from China when in started Screening people coming in from infected areas Telling pubs etc to close rather than advising them..then closing them a week later. Making sure the nhs was a bit better prepared 2 months ago as opposed to now. Not telling the country it was ok to shake hands Banning large events a lot earlier (Cheltenham) Hindsight is a wonderful thing but you do have to query some of the above. | |||
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"And for the record herd immunity only works when the MAJORITY have been vaccinated or are immune and as far as I know there isnt anyone in the world that is." Well we don't know that yet. Early animal testing shows immunity after recovering from covid - still don't know how long it lasts though So we could be building immunity without knowing it | |||
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"Totally agree with Jools. No country is coping well with this and there would have been no way of preventing the virus spreading. It is all about controlling the rate to give Health Services around the globe the best chance of coping. The aim merely to reduce the number of deaths. Stopping people from coming in from China when in started Screening people coming in from infected areas Telling pubs etc to close rather than advising them..then closing them a week later. Making sure the nhs was a bit better prepared 2 months ago as opposed to now. Not telling the country it was ok to shake hands Banning large events a lot earlier (Cheltenham) And constantly telling us face masks dont help us Hindsight is a wonderful thing but you do have to query some of the above." FIFY  | |||
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"And for the record herd immunity only works when the MAJORITY have been vaccinated or are immune and as far as I know there isnt anyone in the world that is. Well we don't know that yet. Early animal testing shows immunity after recovering from covid - still don't know how long it lasts though So we could be building immunity without knowing it " Its thought that this current strain mutates slowly so immunity after getting it would last longer than if it was mutating fast. That said, it's also thought that there are 2 main strains of covid-19, a weaker one and the one that kills you. A lot of people say they were really sick in December/ January time....IF it was over here then, I would say that would of been the weaker strain and what we have now is the killer strain. Again, it's not researched enough yet so it's just best to make sure you don't get either by using a face mask whenever your are outside and just stay away from people. Sack work off if you can and stay home.....yours or someone else's life depends on it. | |||
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"You can't stop a virus only slow it down. The end comes when we all are exposed either by immunisation (over a year away) or by being exposed. I don't get why some people think they are more expert and could have done better than pretty much every other medic in the world.. Every country is finding this a challenging issue, don't join the social media moaners brigade. " As long as those people in the group being contained pass it on to an average number of people below 1, then the virus will take its toll on those people who have it but then disappear. It can't survive for long outside of the body and when people who get infected either die or recover, the virus no longer exists inside them to be passed on. Keeping the onwards transmission rate very low is the key to clearing it. This works unless people come from outside who are infected and can restart transmission to others in the group who hadn't been infected. | |||
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"You can't stop a virus only slow it down. The end comes when we all are exposed either by immunisation (over a year away) or by being exposed. I don't get why some people think they are more expert and could have done better than pretty much every other medic in the world.. Every country is finding this a challenging issue, don't join the social media moaners brigade. As long as those people in the group being contained pass it on to an average number of people below 1, then the virus will take its toll on those people who have it but then disappear. It can't survive for long outside of the body and when people who get infected either die or recover, the virus no longer exists inside them to be passed on. Keeping the onwards transmission rate very low is the key to clearing it. This works unless people come from outside who are infected and can restart transmission to others in the group who hadn't been infected. " Thank you for explaining for me. | |||
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"Totally agree with Jools. No country is coping well with this and there would have been no way of preventing the virus spreading. It is all about controlling the rate to give Health Services around the globe the best chance of coping. The aim merely to reduce the number of deaths." South Korea | |||
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"Totally agree with Jools. No country is coping well with this and there would have been no way of preventing the virus spreading. It is all about controlling the rate to give Health Services around the globe the best chance of coping. The aim merely to reduce the number of deaths. Stopping people from coming in from China when in started Screening people coming in from infected areas Telling pubs etc to close rather than advising them..then closing them a week later. Making sure the nhs was a bit better prepared 2 months ago as opposed to now. Not telling the country it was ok to shake hands Banning large events a lot earlier (Cheltenham) Hindsight is a wonderful thing but you do have to query some of the above." Wouldn't have stopped it. | |||
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"You can't stop a virus only slow it down. The end comes when we all are exposed either by immunisation (over a year away) or by being exposed. I don't get why some people think they are more expert and could have done better than pretty much every other medic in the world.. Every country is finding this a challenging issue, don't join the social media moaners brigade. " Exactly this!! The government hasn't mentioned 'Herd Immunity' for weeks now. Now the implication is to stay at home & with luck you wont get it. But the point is, the majority of us have to get it for the pandemic to end. Or we find a vaccine first. The lockdown is to try & prevent the situation that the NHS ICUs get overwhelmed. Ultimately though most of us will catch it. Although it could take a while. Generally speaking its at about 80% before herd immunity kicks in. Haven't seen what it is for Covid & we probably don't yet know. Depends on how easily it's transmitted, population density etc etc. The 1918 Flu pandemic lasted for 500 days from start to finish (best estimates). As soon as restictions are lifted it will re-emerge. What the authorities will try & do is to try & let it ripple through the population but not alllowing it to run away. Eventually it will burn out. | |||
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"This herd immunity bull is for animals and even they don't deserve it. It came out foot and mouth epidemic controls. Humans are not a herd, this virus is knocking out healthy people too. An in growing toe nail isn't an underlying health problem. Media? Ok a bit of an exageration but who knows what they are classing health problems. Also accepting the elderly and infirmed are fair game for the virus is verging on fascism and could be the norm if we let it ride. Scientists? It was encouraging to hear some elderly folk were making a recovery. Long may they live. the futures so bright "Pray do tell your new scientific break through? Herd immunity is not bull it is the only solution. The management of that herd immunity is the only decision to make. | |||
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"Herd immunity is not bull it is the only solution. The management of that herd immunity is the only decision to make. " And until effective vaccines and treatments are available we’re going to be kept apart. Otherwise the disease will spread rapidly and overwhelm the health service and all we will have achieved is the delaying of the inevitable. | |||
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"This herd immunity bull is for animals and even they don't deserve it. It came out foot and mouth epidemic controls. Humans are not a herd, this virus is knocking out healthy people too. An in growing toe nail isn't an underlying health problem. Media? Ok a bit of an exageration but who knows what they are classing health problems. Also accepting the elderly and infirmed are fair game for the virus is verging on fascism and could be the norm if we let it ride. Scientists? It was encouraging to hear some elderly folk were making a recovery. Long may they live. the futures so bright
Pray do tell your new scientific break through?
Herd immunity is not bull it is the only solution.
The management of that herd immunity is the only decision to make. "Herd immunity without a vaccine is likely to take a very long, no one has any idea how that will be. If a vaccine can be produced in large amounts quickly then we can use herd immunity properly. May need to force people to have the vaccination. If you get too many people not having the vaccine, freeriders, herd immunity doesn't work well. | |||
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"All the bitching about what should have been done is getting tedious. Yes, there have been mistakes but let's all just concentrate on doing what's needed NOW. " Totally agree. Never seen so many self appointed experts selling opinion as fact. | |||
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"So pray tell what is the answer coz as far as I can see there's not a country on the planet that is dealing with it well? I think everyone assumes that this will end like a Hollywood film a doctor is rushing around the planet desperately trying to figure out a vaccine by finding patient zero ..... It doesn't work like that. Staying inside is purely an exercise in trying to limit the amount of people sick at one time. The government knows that by this time next year a majority of the country will have been infected,once that figure gets close to 80% population infected then it will start being effective. Listen to me what the fuck do I know I'm another radio expert listening to all the news reports reading and listening to all the "expert" advice and suddenly I think I know everything. I know jack shit,same as the rest of us all we can do is follow advice pray that it works and tell your family that you love them every day." Would you agree that the virus relies on humans to spread it to survive? Either it kills the host or the host kills it. Either way after a given time period COVID-19 relies on spreading to exist. Isolation is it's enemy. In a utopia where everyone quarantined the virus would last no longer than a month and never be seen again. The closer we get to that utopia the better our chances. What are we going to do when the next virus comes along? More herd immunity? What if the next one kills our children instead? The problem is that as a nation we have no discipline. That's the truth of it. We are squealing like stuck pigs because we have to act in service of other than our own selfish needs for once. | |||
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"This herd immunity bull is for animals and even they don't deserve it. It came out foot and mouth epidemic controls. Humans are not a herd, this virus is knocking out healthy people too. An in growing toe nail isn't an underlying health problem. Media? Ok a bit of an exageration but who knows what they are classing health problems. Also accepting the elderly and infirmed are fair game for the virus is verging on fascism and could be the norm if we let it ride. Scientists? It was encouraging to hear some elderly folk were making a recovery. Long may they live. the futures so bright "Total and compete bullshit, foot and mouth is eliminated by the destruction of every animal in affected herds, that is not herd immunity which is the only way we will beat this, it doesn't not mean letting the old and vulnerable die it means keeping them safe while the rest of us catch it and recover which 98% plus will do, when that's achieved the vulnerable will be much safer due to the fact there are very few people with it and so cant spread it.Every country in the world is relying on it, there is simply no other option until a vaccine is available and that is in the distance | |||
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"This herd immunity bull is for animals and even they don't deserve it. It came out foot and mouth epidemic controls. Humans are not a herd, this virus is knocking out healthy people too. An in growing toe nail isn't an underlying health problem. Media? Ok a bit of an exageration but who knows what they are classing health problems. Also accepting the elderly and infirmed are fair game for the virus is verging on fascism and could be the norm if we let it ride. Scientists? It was encouraging to hear some elderly folk were making a recovery. Long may they live. the futures so bright
Total and compete bullshit, foot and mouth is eliminated by the destruction of every animal in affected herds, that is not herd immunity which is the only way we will beat this, it doesn't not mean letting the old and vulnerable die it means keeping them safe while the rest of us catch it and recover which 98% plus will do, when that's achieved the vulnerable will be much safer due to the fact there are very few people with it and so cant spread it.Every country in the world is relying on it, there is simply no other option until a vaccine is available and that is in the distance "What is the point of preserving the vulnerable and killing the healthy? Just let the virus kill everyone, it's easier! 
No one in his right mind would rely on disease-induced herd immunity. We need a vaccine and we need to stop the spread of the virus until the vaccine is ready. If this means that some people won't be able to sunbathe... who cares? | |||
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"This herd immunity bull is for animals and even they don't deserve it. It came out foot and mouth epidemic controls. Humans are not a herd, this virus is knocking out healthy people too. An in growing toe nail isn't an underlying health problem. Media? Ok a bit of an exageration but who knows what they are classing health problems. Also accepting the elderly and infirmed are fair game for the virus is verging on fascism and could be the norm if we let it ride. Scientists? It was encouraging to hear some elderly folk were making a recovery. Long may they live. the futures so bright
Total and compete bullshit, foot and mouth is eliminated by the destruction of every animal in affected herds, that is not herd immunity which is the only way we will beat this, it doesn't not mean letting the old and vulnerable die it means keeping them safe while the rest of us catch it and recover which 98% plus will do, when that's achieved the vulnerable will be much safer due to the fact there are very few people with it and so cant spread it.Every country in the world is relying on it, there is simply no other option until a vaccine is available and that is in the distance
What is the point of preserving the vulnerable and killing the healthy? Just let the virus kill everyone, it's easier!
No one in his right mind would rely on disease-induced herd immunity. We need a vaccine and we need to stop the spread of the virus until the vaccine is ready. If this means that some people won't be able to sunbathe... who cares?"Do you have the slightest idea how long a vaccine will take to produce ? Its at leat 18 months according to the experts and thats just to get to the stage where large scale trials could take place, there are huge risks giving a vacinne that hasnt been allowed to be tested for medium term complcations, it might just be possible for one to be produced for the vulnerable on the bass that without it they mght die so they have nothing to lose, it wll never be released into the general population until trials have shown it to be safe, if this lockdown carried on for years it would not stop the spread just slow it down and destroy the worlds economy in the process | |||
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"This herd immunity bull is for animals and even they don't deserve it. It came out foot and mouth epidemic controls. Humans are not a herd, this virus is knocking out healthy people too. An in growing toe nail isn't an underlying health problem. Media? Ok a bit of an exageration but who knows what they are classing health problems. Also accepting the elderly and infirmed are fair game for the virus is verging on fascism and could be the norm if we let it ride. Scientists? It was encouraging to hear some elderly folk were making a recovery. Long may they live. the futures so bright
Total and compete bullshit, foot and mouth is eliminated by the destruction of every animal in affected herds, that is not herd immunity which is the only way we will beat this, it doesn't not mean letting the old and vulnerable die it means keeping them safe while the rest of us catch it and recover which 98% plus will do, when that's achieved the vulnerable will be much safer due to the fact there are very few people with it and so cant spread it.Every country in the world is relying on it, there is simply no other option until a vaccine is available and that is in the distance
What is the point of preserving the vulnerable and killing the healthy? Just let the virus kill everyone, it's easier!
No one in his right mind would rely on disease-induced herd immunity. We need a vaccine and we need to stop the spread of the virus until the vaccine is ready. If this means that some people won't be able to sunbathe... who cares?
Do you have the slightest idea how long a vaccine will take to produce ? Its at leat 18 months according to the experts and thats just to get to the stage where large scale trials could take place, there are huge risks giving a vacinne that hasnt been allowed to be tested for medium term complcations, it might just be possible for one to be produced for the vulnerable on the bass that without it they mght die so they have nothing to lose, it wll never be released into the general population until trials have shown it to be safe, if this lockdown carried on for years it would not stop the spread just slow it down and destroy the worlds economy in the process"The lockdown isnt going to last for years. | |||
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"This herd immunity bull is for animals and even they don't deserve it. It came out foot and mouth epidemic controls. Humans are not a herd, this virus is knocking out healthy people too. An in growing toe nail isn't an underlying health problem. Media? Ok a bit of an exageration but who knows what they are classing health problems. Also accepting the elderly and infirmed are fair game for the virus is verging on fascism and could be the norm if we let it ride. Scientists? It was encouraging to hear some elderly folk were making a recovery. Long may they live. the futures so bright
Total and compete bullshit, foot and mouth is eliminated by the destruction of every animal in affected herds, that is not herd immunity which is the only way we will beat this, it doesn't not mean letting the old and vulnerable die it means keeping them safe while the rest of us catch it and recover which 98% plus will do, when that's achieved the vulnerable will be much safer due to the fact there are very few people with it and so cant spread it.Every country in the world is relying on it, there is simply no other option until a vaccine is available and that is in the distance
What is the point of preserving the vulnerable and killing the healthy? Just let the virus kill everyone, it's easier!
No one in his right mind would rely on disease-induced herd immunity. We need a vaccine and we need to stop the spread of the virus until the vaccine is ready. If this means that some people won't be able to sunbathe... who cares?
Do you have the slightest idea how long a vaccine will take to produce ? Its at leat 18 months according to the experts and thats just to get to the stage where large scale trials could take place, there are huge risks giving a vacinne that hasnt been allowed to be tested for medium term complcations, it might just be possible for one to be produced for the vulnerable on the bass that without it they mght die so they have nothing to lose, it wll never be released into the general population until trials have shown it to be safe, if this lockdown carried on for years it would not stop the spread just slow it down and destroy the worlds economy in the process
The lockdown isnt going to last for years."Of course not but the poster I replied to wants it to | |||
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"Some big decisions are going to be required soon, especially if the NHS numbers start reducing It is reported antibody tests to identify those who have had Covid-19 will not be available until May at the earliest and no vaccine is on the horizon It strikes me the only way out of this is to allow low risk people to start mixing and going out to work again and for the high risk to stay in isolation As for the people in the middle they need to to decide This in theory would start building immunity to a certain degree Good luck bojo "This is possibly what they are planning with these nightingale hospitals giving the NHS more capacity. in another couple of weeks there should another 20 to 30000 beds available to treat the victims. At some point the virus will need to be allowed to let rip. Let's hope this virus is only a catch once thing, otherwise this has all been a total futile waste of effort anyway. For the right reasons of course. | |||
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"Some big decisions are going to be required soon, especially if the NHS numbers start reducing It is reported antibody tests to identify those who have had Covid-19 will not be available until May at the earliest and no vaccine is on the horizon It strikes me the only way out of this is to allow low risk people to start mixing and going out to work again and for the high risk to stay in isolation As for the people in the middle they need to to decide This in theory would start building immunity to a certain degree Good luck bojo
This is possibly what they are planning with these nightingale hospitals giving the NHS more capacity. in another couple of weeks there should another 20 to 30000 beds available to treat the victims. At some point the virus will need to be allowed to let rip. Let's hope this virus is only a catch once thing, otherwise this has all been a total futile waste of effort anyway. For the right reasons of course. "Where they going to get the drs and nurses from.? | |||
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" Where they going to get the drs and nurses from.?" I assume it's those returning from retirement etc, they're building the nightingales so I assume they have a cunning plan or ..... | |||
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" Where they going to get the drs and nurses from.? I assume it's those returning from retirement etc, they're building the nightingales so I assume they have a cunning plan or ..... " Have they put baldrick in charge? | |||
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" Where they going to get the drs and nurses from.? I assume it's those returning from retirement etc, they're building the nightingales so I assume they have a cunning plan or ..... Have they put baldrick in charge?" Let's keep him in reserve for when it really goes tits up  | |||
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" Where they going to get the drs and nurses from.? I assume it's those returning from retirement etc, they're building the nightingales so I assume they have a cunning plan or ..... Have they put baldrick in charge? Let's keep him in reserve for when it really goes tits up "
Cant do much worse | |||
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" Where they going to get the drs and nurses from.? I assume it's those returning from retirement etc, they're building the nightingales so I assume they have a cunning plan or ..... Have they put baldrick in charge? Let's keep him in reserve for when it really goes tits up "There will be plenty of volunteers. Don't you worry your wibbly wobbly self | |||
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"This herd immunity bull is for animals and even they don't deserve it. It came out foot and mouth epidemic controls. Humans are not a herd, this virus is knocking out healthy people too. An in growing toe nail isn't an underlying health problem. Media? Ok a bit of an exageration but who knows what they are classing health problems. Also accepting the elderly and infirmed are fair game for the virus is verging on fascism and could be the norm if we let it ride. Scientists? It was encouraging to hear some elderly folk were making a recovery. Long may they live. the futures so bright
Total and compete bullshit, foot and mouth is eliminated by the destruction of every animal in affected herds, that is not herd immunity which is the only way we will beat this, it doesn't not mean letting the old and vulnerable die it means keeping them safe while the rest of us catch it and recover which 98% plus will do, when that's achieved the vulnerable will be much safer due to the fact there are very few people with it and so cant spread it.Every country in the world is relying on it, there is simply no other option until a vaccine is available and that is in the distance
What is the point of preserving the vulnerable and killing the healthy? Just let the virus kill everyone, it's easier!
No one in his right mind would rely on disease-induced herd immunity. We need a vaccine and we need to stop the spread of the virus until the vaccine is ready. If this means that some people won't be able to sunbathe... who cares?
Do you have the slightest idea how long a vaccine will take to produce ? Its at leat 18 months according to the experts and thats just to get to the stage where large scale trials could take place, there are huge risks giving a vacinne that hasnt been allowed to be tested for medium term complcations, it might just be possible for one to be produced for the vulnerable on the bass that without it they mght die so they have nothing to lose, it wll never be released into the general population until trials have shown it to be safe, if this lockdown carried on for years it would not stop the spread just slow it down and destroy the worlds economy in the process"The current strategy of the govern has been clearly outlined. And yes the lockdown will last 2 years. Not always as it is now. Sometime stricter sometimes "softer". But we need to get used to it. | |||
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" Where they going to get the drs and nurses from.? I assume it's those returning from retirement etc, they're building the nightingales so I assume they have a cunning plan or ..... Have they put baldrick in charge? Let's keep him in reserve for when it really goes tits up
Cant do much worse" | |||
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"This herd immunity bull is for animals and even they don't deserve it. It came out foot and mouth epidemic controls. Humans are not a herd, this virus is knocking out healthy people too. An in growing toe nail isn't an underlying health problem. Media? Ok a bit of an exageration but who knows what they are classing health problems. Also accepting the elderly and infirmed are fair game for the virus is verging on fascism and could be the norm if we let it ride. Scientists? It was encouraging to hear some elderly folk were making a recovery. Long may they live. the futures so bright
Total and compete bullshit, foot and mouth is eliminated by the destruction of every animal in affected herds, that is not herd immunity which is the only way we will beat this, it doesn't not mean letting the old and vulnerable die it means keeping them safe while the rest of us catch it and recover which 98% plus will do, when that's achieved the vulnerable will be much safer due to the fact there are very few people with it and so cant spread it.Every country in the world is relying on it, there is simply no other option until a vaccine is available and that is in the distance
What is the point of preserving the vulnerable and killing the healthy? Just let the virus kill everyone, it's easier!
No one in his right mind would rely on disease-induced herd immunity. We need a vaccine and we need to stop the spread of the virus until the vaccine is ready. If this means that some people won't be able to sunbathe... who cares?
Do you have the slightest idea how long a vaccine will take to produce ? Its at leat 18 months according to the experts and thats just to get to the stage where large scale trials could take place, there are huge risks giving a vacinne that hasnt been allowed to be tested for medium term complcations, it might just be possible for one to be produced for the vulnerable on the bass that without it they mght die so they have nothing to lose, it wll never be released into the general population until trials have shown it to be safe, if this lockdown carried on for years it would not stop the spread just slow it down and destroy the worlds economy in the process
The current strategy of the govern has been clearly outlined. And yes the lockdown will last 2 years. Not always as it is now. Sometime stricter sometimes "softer". But we need to get used to it."Does it make sense that a virus that "sheds" for two weeks needs to be locked down for two years? The lockdown will be prolonged by those who don't adhere. Mark my words. When other countries have sorted this out they will have travel bans for people coming from Britain because carrying on the virus is what we will be known for. We won't need Brexit - we will be pariahs. | |||
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"This herd immunity bull is for animals and even they don't deserve it. It came out foot and mouth epidemic controls. Humans are not a herd, this virus is knocking out healthy people too. An in growing toe nail isn't an underlying health problem. Media? Ok a bit of an exageration but who knows what they are classing health problems. Also accepting the elderly and infirmed are fair game for the virus is verging on fascism and could be the norm if we let it ride. Scientists? It was encouraging to hear some elderly folk were making a recovery. Long may they live. the futures so bright
Total and compete bullshit, foot and mouth is eliminated by the destruction of every animal in affected herds, that is not herd immunity which is the only way we will beat this, it doesn't not mean letting the old and vulnerable die it means keeping them safe while the rest of us catch it and recover which 98% plus will do, when that's achieved the vulnerable will be much safer due to the fact there are very few people with it and so cant spread it.Every country in the world is relying on it, there is simply no other option until a vaccine is available and that is in the distance
What is the point of preserving the vulnerable and killing the healthy? Just let the virus kill everyone, it's easier!
No one in his right mind would rely on disease-induced herd immunity. We need a vaccine and we need to stop the spread of the virus until the vaccine is ready. If this means that some people won't be able to sunbathe... who cares?
Do you have the slightest idea how long a vaccine will take to produce ? Its at leat 18 months according to the experts and thats just to get to the stage where large scale trials could take place, there are huge risks giving a vacinne that hasnt been allowed to be tested for medium term complcations, it might just be possible for one to be produced for the vulnerable on the bass that without it they mght die so they have nothing to lose, it wll never be released into the general population until trials have shown it to be safe, if this lockdown carried on for years it would not stop the spread just slow it down and destroy the worlds economy in the process
The current strategy of the govern has been clearly outlined. And yes the lockdown will last 2 years. Not always as it is now. Sometime stricter sometimes "softer". But we need to get used to it."Your source? | |||
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"Actually you don't need an exit strategy. Here's why: Those who don't adhere to quarantine will eventually get infected and either recover or perish. Either way they won't pass it on forever. Those who do quarantine won't be spreading it. Full stop. So the only danger is those who move between those two stances. Stop people from going out and the virus burns itself out. " I think if you watch China over the next couple of weeks you'll see that that statement just isn't true. 11 weeks lockdown, and they have new cases | |||
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"Actually you don't need an exit strategy. Here's why: Those who don't adhere to quarantine will eventually get infected and either recover or perish. Either way they won't pass it on forever. Those who do quarantine won't be spreading it. Full stop. So the only danger is those who move between those two stances. Stop people from going out and the virus burns itself out. " Rubbish, you cant have 100% lockdown and without that it will never burn it self out. There will always be new biths new immigrants they will be the new cases just as they are for every other illness. | |||
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"This herd immunity bull is for animals and even they don't deserve it. It came out foot and mouth epidemic controls. Humans are not a herd, this virus is knocking out healthy people too. An in growing toe nail isn't an underlying health problem. Media? Ok a bit of an exageration but who knows what they are classing health problems. Also accepting the elderly and infirmed are fair game for the virus is verging on fascism and could be the norm if we let it ride. Scientists? It was encouraging to hear some elderly folk were making a recovery. Long may they live. the futures so bright
Total and compete bullshit, foot and mouth is eliminated by the destruction of every animal in affected herds, that is not herd immunity which is the only way we will beat this, it doesn't not mean letting the old and vulnerable die it means keeping them safe while the rest of us catch it and recover which 98% plus will do, when that's achieved the vulnerable will be much safer due to the fact there are very few people with it and so cant spread it.Every country in the world is relying on it, there is simply no other option until a vaccine is available and that is in the distance
What is the point of preserving the vulnerable and killing the healthy? Just let the virus kill everyone, it's easier!
No one in his right mind would rely on disease-induced herd immunity. We need a vaccine and we need to stop the spread of the virus until the vaccine is ready. If this means that some people won't be able to sunbathe... who cares?
Do you have the slightest idea how long a vaccine will take to produce ? Its at leat 18 months according to the experts and thats just to get to the stage where large scale trials could take place, there are huge risks giving a vacinne that hasnt been allowed to be tested for medium term complcations, it might just be possible for one to be produced for the vulnerable on the bass that without it they mght die so they have nothing to lose, it wll never be released into the general population until trials have shown it to be safe, if this lockdown carried on for years it would not stop the spread just slow it down and destroy the worlds economy in the process
The current strategy of the govern has been clearly outlined. And yes the lockdown will last 2 years. Not always as it is now. Sometime stricter sometimes "softer". But we need to get used to it.
Your source?"The "adaptive triggering" was introduced in one of the Imperial College reports. I heard Vallance and other talking about it. I don't have any link to post at the moment. | |||
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"As I said with Friends and other places If BoJo actually used everything at his disposal eg MI5, MI6, leading health experts etc I think we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now. If your a leader of a huge country with assets wouldn't you want to know what your allies and enemies doing and what going on in there country aswell. We had since October even thou China only told the WHO on 31st December about this so really since Januray to get prepard and decide a plan of action. With hindsight being 20/20 In Januray we should of grounded flights in and out the country and quarantined everyone that came into the country for 3 months and tested them for covid 19 then trace their family here and aboard basicall cutting it at the source. Anyway stay safe guy and girls." Why would that need to be hindsight. There were people on this forum who were calling for just that in January. One of my posts asked why BA stopped flights only from China when it had spread to other countries. | |||
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"Actually you don't need an exit strategy. Here's why: Those who don't adhere to quarantine will eventually get infected and either recover or perish. Either way they won't pass it on forever. Those who do quarantine won't be spreading it. Full stop. So the only danger is those who move between those two stances. Stop people from going out and the virus burns itself out. Rubbish, you cant have 100% lockdown and without that it will never burn it self out. There will always be new biths new immigrants they will be the new cases just as they are for every other illness." Yes it will. Do you still think that 80% of the population need to catch the virus before winter? | |||
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"Actually you don't need an exit strategy. Here's why: Those who don't adhere to quarantine will eventually get infected and either recover or perish. Either way they won't pass it on forever. Those who do quarantine won't be spreading it. Full stop. So the only danger is those who move between those two stances. Stop people from going out and the virus burns itself out. Rubbish, you cant have 100% lockdown and without that it will never burn it self out. There will always be new biths new immigrants they will be the new cases just as they are for every other illness." Well yes there is no point in quarantine when you have people walzing in unchecked through our ports and harbours. But such organisation would require a focus on COVID-19 and not Brexit. 100% lockdown is not just possible. It's been done. But as I said you don't need 100% lockdown. | |||
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"This herd immunity bull is for animals and even they don't deserve it. It came out foot and mouth epidemic controls. Humans are not a herd, this virus is knocking out healthy people too. An in growing toe nail isn't an underlying health problem. Media? Ok a bit of an exageration but who knows what they are classing health problems. Also accepting the elderly and infirmed are fair game for the virus is verging on fascism and could be the norm if we let it ride. Scientists? It was encouraging to hear some elderly folk were making a recovery. Long may they live. the futures so bright
Total and compete bullshit, foot and mouth is eliminated by the destruction of every animal in affected herds, that is not herd immunity which is the only way we will beat this, it doesn't not mean letting the old and vulnerable die it means keeping them safe while the rest of us catch it and recover which 98% plus will do, when that's achieved the vulnerable will be much safer due to the fact there are very few people with it and so cant spread it.Every country in the world is relying on it, there is simply no other option until a vaccine is available and that is in the distance
What is the point of preserving the vulnerable and killing the healthy? Just let the virus kill everyone, it's easier!
No one in his right mind would rely on disease-induced herd immunity. We need a vaccine and we need to stop the spread of the virus until the vaccine is ready. If this means that some people won't be able to sunbathe... who cares?
Do you have the slightest idea how long a vaccine will take to produce ? Its at leat 18 months according to the experts and thats just to get to the stage where large scale trials could take place, there are huge risks giving a vacinne that hasnt been allowed to be tested for medium term complcations, it might just be possible for one to be produced for the vulnerable on the bass that without it they mght die so they have nothing to lose, it wll never be released into the general population until trials have shown it to be safe, if this lockdown carried on for years it would not stop the spread just slow it down and destroy the worlds economy in the process
The current strategy of the govern has been clearly outlined. And yes the lockdown will last 2 years. Not always as it is now. Sometime stricter sometimes "softer". But we need to get used to it.
Your source?
The "adaptive triggering" was introduced in one of the Imperial College reports. I heard Vallance and other talking about it. I don't have any link to post at the moment."Who said the lockdown will last two years? And when? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... " Do you feel like you're achieving something, comparing us to other countries all the time and constantly telling people how terrible our government is? The fact is, we are in this situation now, we need to deal with it instead of looking for blame. Save the blame game until we are through it. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... " Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, " You will probably find that they keep a tight ship on inward bound in terms of quarantine. Something they can sustain until there is a vaccine. When I was a child you could not travel anywhere until you could prove you had smallpox vaccinations. You may find this happens with COVID-19. It always comes back to the same thing. Separating the infected and uninfected. For this tests are required. Yup that's us at the back of the queue.... | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, " At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, You will probably find that they keep a tight ship on inward bound in terms of quarantine. Something they can sustain until there is a vaccine. When I was a child you could not travel anywhere until you could prove you had smallpox vaccinations. You may find this happens with COVID-19. It always comes back to the same thing. Separating the infected and uninfected. For this tests are required. Yup that's us at the back of the queue...." There is no test to show who has had it, only one to show who has currently got it, until the antibody test is approved no one will be able to say they are safe to travel | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. " Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. " It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing" They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works?" We know isolation works for some things, we also know that herd immunity works for some things. What's your point? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. " No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today." How does that help us? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works?" How many travel to NZ in a year compared to the uk in a day ? Iirc 220,000 a day travel through Heathrow a day, just looked up the stats for NZ total for the year around 40 million, that's half of just heathrow for the whole of NZ, then add in all the ferries, chunnel etc, and you think tracing is possible ? I really hope it works for NZ but it only takes one person to start it up again | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today." IF they have symptoms half dont. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? How many travel to NZ in a year compared to the uk in a day ? Iirc 220,000 a day travel through Heathrow a day, just looked up the stats for NZ total for the year around 40 million, that's half of just heathrow for the whole of NZ, then add in all the ferries, chunnel etc, and you think tracing is possible ? I really hope it works for NZ but it only takes one person to start it up again" Are you the same person who stated that 80% of the population need to get the virus before winter? Maybe you should start to dismiss the ‘herd immunity’ theory as it obviously doesn’t work | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? How many travel to NZ in a year compared to the uk in a day ? Iirc 220,000 a day travel through Heathrow a day, just looked up the stats for NZ total for the year around 40 million, that's half of just heathrow for the whole of NZ, then add in all the ferries, chunnel etc, and you think tracing is possible ? I really hope it works for NZ but it only takes one person to start it up again Are you the same person who stated that 80% of the population need to get the virus before winter? Maybe you should start to dismiss the ‘herd immunity’ theory as it obviously doesn’t work "Herd immunity is the only way europe will deal with the virus,and it will need about 80% to achieve it. How do you know it wont work ? It hadn't been achieved yet, it works for flu or far more would die from it each year, only those with poor immune systems die from flu, without herd immunity in the majority of the population we would be in the same situation with flu as we currently are with cv19. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? " It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works?" I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? How many travel to NZ in a year compared to the uk in a day ? Iirc 220,000 a day travel through Heathrow a day, just looked up the stats for NZ total for the year around 40 million, that's half of just heathrow for the whole of NZ, then add in all the ferries, chunnel etc, and you think tracing is possible ? I really hope it works for NZ but it only takes one person to start it up again Are you the same person who stated that 80% of the population need to get the virus before winter? Maybe you should start to dismiss the ‘herd immunity’ theory as it obviously doesn’t work
Herd immunity is the only way europe will deal with the virus,and it will need about 80% to achieve it. How do you know it wont work ? It hadn't been achieved yet, it works for flu or far more would die from it each year, only those with poor immune systems die from flu, without herd immunity in the majority of the population we would be in the same situation with flu as we currently are with cv19.
"So, to reiterate, 80% of Europe need to catch the virus? That is 592 million people. What sort of time frame are you looking at ? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years " It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years " Australia is one of the least densely populated places on the planet and NZ has a population of a few million spread around and Island about the same size as the UK. They are bound to be having less trouble fighting it than us. To suggest it's because they are fighting it by pursuing an isolation policy is completely silly. grrrrrrrrr | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years " According to the report I quoted Australia imposed a travel ban effective the next day. To my knowledge we have not done anything similar. We had people coming back from Northern Italy where the outbreak was worst going straight back into the population. Our initial course of action could be described as nothing. We sat on our hands. This herd immunity is not a strategy. It's more doing nothing and giving it a name and calling it a strategy. Everything we have done to date is reactionary. Nothing proactive. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates." I agree. That’s why our government wanted to try to postpone the spread until spring and Warmer weather. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years Australia is one of the least densely populated places on the planet and NZ has a population of a few million spread around and Island about the same size as the UK. They are bound to be having less trouble fighting it than us. To suggest it's because they are fighting it by pursuing an isolation policy is completely silly. grrrrrrrrr" Whether its a natural isolation or an enforced isolation, it's still proof of effective management of the virus without herd immunity. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years Australia is one of the least densely populated places on the planet and NZ has a population of a few million spread around and Island about the same size as the UK. They are bound to be having less trouble fighting it than us. To suggest it's because they are fighting it by pursuing an isolation policy is completely silly. grrrrrrrrr" Why? They have large densely populated cities just like the UK has? Sydney and Melbourne both have populations above 4 million . | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. I agree. That’s why our government wanted to try to postpone the spread until spring and Warmer weather. " New Zealand average temperature in April is 18 to 20 degrees. The temperature today was somewhere around 24... not buying it. | |||
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"Nhs manager here , the nhs is coping and actually quieter than you might think atm , it is predicted that 80% of us will catch the virus, many will have already. " What hospital do you work at? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years Australia is one of the least densely populated places on the planet and NZ has a population of a few million spread around and Island about the same size as the UK. They are bound to be having less trouble fighting it than us. To suggest it's because they are fighting it by pursuing an isolation policy is completely silly. grrrrrrrrr Why? They have large densely populated cities just like the UK has? Sydney and Melbourne both have populations above 4 million . " It's immaterial. If two people live 2000 miles apart and don't meet each other or if they live in the flat across from each other and don't meet, they are both isolated. We are talking isolation vs herd immunity. I would like to hear examples of countries who have effectively managed COVID-19 with herd immunity without enormous casualties. | |||
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"Nhs manager here , the nhs is coping and actually quieter than you might think atm , it is predicted that 80% of us will catch the virus, many will have already. " How do we know who has and who hasn't? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years Australia is one of the least densely populated places on the planet and NZ has a population of a few million spread around and Island about the same size as the UK. They are bound to be having less trouble fighting it than us. To suggest it's because they are fighting it by pursuing an isolation policy is completely silly. grrrrrrrrr Why? They have large densely populated cities just like the UK has? Sydney and Melbourne both have populations above 4 million . It's immaterial. If two people live 2000 miles apart and don't meet each other or if they live in the flat across from each other and don't meet, they are both isolated. We are talking isolation vs herd immunity. I would like to hear examples of countries who have effectively managed COVID-19 with herd immunity without enormous casualties. " I agree, if herd immunity only works with an 80 % infection rate then millions will die | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes." Maybe we should deal with this one first. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years Australia is one of the least densely populated places on the planet and NZ has a population of a few million spread around and Island about the same size as the UK. They are bound to be having less trouble fighting it than us. To suggest it's because they are fighting it by pursuing an isolation policy is completely silly. grrrrrrrrr Whether its a natural isolation or an enforced isolation, it's still proof of effective management of the virus without herd immunity. " Unless a country is prepared to close all borders and ban ALL travel, indefinitely, they are just postponing the inevitable. Even if they manage to isolate and eradicate every case of corona there is also the possibility of it persisting in animal hosts which are impossible to isolate, contain and control. How big of a threat this could be is unknown however as with humans, it only takes one case to start it off all over again. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. " Yes, we should also learn from the places that have had it first. | |||
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"Herd immunity plan is still in effect in the UK. The lockdown isn't a lockdown, It a deliberate attempt to slow the spread of infection but to still allow infection to occur. Keeping people in their homes and shutting down any place of enjoyment or socialising,,,,,shops, pubs, parks etc reduces the spread a little but by saying everyone else has to go to work allows the virus to continue spreading. Maybe the NHS will be able to cope but from what I have seen so far they are on the limit, 2 weeks from now willl be even worse. Instead of trying to stop it sooner which they could of done weeks and weeks ago that would of made the outbreak peak about now or very soon they just dithered and ignored what was happening everywhere else and now eventually everyone will get it and those who die are just another number. The UK is stupid and think the government are doing the best they can when in reality they have took away your freedoms while they let the virus spread throughout the country killing whoever it may. In the coming weeks deaths will rise very high just like italy and spain and we will be a lot worse due to this herd immunity crap. Stay safe and COVER YOUR FACE when you go out. Wear a mask if you can get one bit a scarf or similar is better than nothing." I just watched the news tonight, every other country they showed all wore masks. I tried to go shopping today but every major supermarket I tried had queues of at least 30 people and NOONE wore masks. My friends around the world said in their country, it is law to wear a mask. But in uk, people don't... Let's see our total death toll by end of the year then in hindsight, people wished they wore masks.   | |||
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"Herd immunity plan is still in effect in the UK. The lockdown isn't a lockdown, It a deliberate attempt to slow the spread of infection but to still allow infection to occur. Keeping people in their homes and shutting down any place of enjoyment or socialising,,,,,shops, pubs, parks etc reduces the spread a little but by saying everyone else has to go to work allows the virus to continue spreading. Maybe the NHS will be able to cope but from what I have seen so far they are on the limit, 2 weeks from now willl be even worse. Instead of trying to stop it sooner which they could of done weeks and weeks ago that would of made the outbreak peak about now or very soon they just dithered and ignored what was happening everywhere else and now eventually everyone will get it and those who die are just another number. The UK is stupid and think the government are doing the best they can when in reality they have took away your freedoms while they let the virus spread throughout the country killing whoever it may. In the coming weeks deaths will rise very high just like italy and spain and we will be a lot worse due to this herd immunity crap. Stay safe and COVER YOUR FACE when you go out. Wear a mask if you can get one bit a scarf or similar is better than nothing. I just watched the news tonight, every other country they showed all wore masks. I tried to go shopping today but every major supermarket I tried had queues of at least 30 people and NOONE wore masks. My friends around the world said in their country, it is law to wear a mask. But in uk, people don't... Let's see our total death toll by end of the year then in hindsight, people wished they wore masks. "What do you think masks do to prevent covid ? Same as gloves ? What purpose do you see them serve ? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. Yes, we should also learn from the places that have had it first. " We dont do that..we are Great Britain..we will do things our own way. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates." So what does the virus do in Africa? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. Yes, we should also learn from the places that have had it first. We dont do that..we are Great Britain..we will do things our own way." I love the sense of irony in that !!GREAT BRITAIN | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa?" Can you Answer that ? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. " We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)?" I agree it’s actually 3 weeks Monday. And cobra meeting is Monday. I actually think they will put in place harsher measures | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? I agree it’s actually 3 weeks Monday. And cobra meeting is Monday. I actually think they will put in place harsher measures " They will see how people ‘behave’ this weekend. If stupid and selfish idiots continue to break the rules then I agree, there will have to be harsher measures | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa? Can you Answer that ?" Why is the virus spreading in Africa if the warm climate disturbs him? My bad, sorry. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa?" African countries who can least afford a lockdown and offer no financial support are under superstrict lockdown. They are right at the start of their fight, but still taking it more seriously than us. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa? Can you Answer that ? Why is the virus spreading in Africa if the warm climate disturbs him? My bad, sorry. " Africa isn't a country. Even in South Africa the climates are very different going into different areas. In the Drakeberg you might have snow whilt in northern kwazulu Natal you are being burned through your t-shirt. South Africa is even banning alcohol sales. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa? African countries who can least afford a lockdown and offer no financial support are under superstrict lockdown. They are right at the start of their fight, but still taking it more seriously than us." How so? Can you explain? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa? Can you Answer that ? Why is the virus spreading in Africa if the warm climate disturbs him? My bad, sorry. Africa isn't a country. Even in South Africa the climates are very different going into different areas. In the Drakeberg you might have snow whilt in northern kwazulu Natal you are being burned through your t-shirt. South Africa is even banning alcohol sales." You will find the exact same in turkey. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa? Can you Answer that ? Why is the virus spreading in Africa if the warm climate disturbs him? My bad, sorry. Africa isn't a country. Even in South Africa the climates are very different going into different areas. In the Drakeberg you might have snow whilt in northern kwazulu Natal you are being burned through your t-shirt. South Africa is even banning alcohol sales. You will find the exact same in turkey. " Your point being ? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)?" From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa? African countries who can least afford a lockdown and offer no financial support are under superstrict lockdown. They are right at the start of their fight, but still taking it more seriously than us. How so? Can you explain?" Well in Zimbabwe where a many are facing starvation as it is, are being prevented from earning a living. In South Africa and Zimbabwe ther are no bailouts for staying at home. South Africa as broke as they are doing loads of testing which we aren't. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa? Can you Answer that ? Why is the virus spreading in Africa if the warm climate disturbs him? My bad, sorry. " He said it doesn't spread as easily, not that it doesn't spread at all... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. " And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa? African countries who can least afford a lockdown and offer no financial support are under superstrict lockdown. They are right at the start of their fight, but still taking it more seriously than us. How so? Can you explain? Well in Zimbabwe where a many are facing starvation as it is, are being prevented from earning a living. In South Africa and Zimbabwe ther are no bailouts for staying at home. South Africa as broke as they are doing loads of testing which we aren't. " Perhaps they should let people work and feed their family whilst employing social distancing rules and strategies. Why has nobody thought of this already? Oh wait a minute... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa? Can you Answer that ? Why is the virus spreading in Africa if the warm climate disturbs him? My bad, sorry. Africa isn't a country. Even in South Africa the climates are very different going into different areas. In the Drakeberg you might have snow whilt in northern kwazulu Natal you are being burned through your t-shirt. South Africa is even banning alcohol sales." I know that. Everyone can guess that it is about warmer countries. This is not about a warm climate but about a small number of tests | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too?" Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa? Can you Answer that ? Why is the virus spreading in Africa if the warm climate disturbs him? My bad, sorry. Africa isn't a country. Even in South Africa the climates are very different going into different areas. In the Drakeberg you might have snow whilt in northern kwazulu Natal you are being burned through your t-shirt. South Africa is even banning alcohol sales. I know that. Everyone can guess that it is about warmer countries. This is not about a warm climate but about a small number of tests" It's a complex question. If the temperature in the UK is 8 degrees but homes, cars, trains, shops, workplaces are mainly heated and went spend most of our time in 20 something degrees. Whereas in SA gas heating is unheard of so on cold days houses etc are also cold... right now they are just starting to go into the colder time... so time will tell. Perhaps it reduces non-human to human transfer....? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)?" They have already stated that they are seeing the effects of the lockdown. | |||
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"This herd immunity bull is for animals and even they don't deserve it. It came out foot and mouth epidemic controls. Humans are not a herd, this virus is knocking out healthy people too. An in growing toe nail isn't an underlying health problem. Media? Ok a bit of an exageration but who knows what they are classing health problems. Also accepting the elderly and infirmed are fair game for the virus is verging on fascism and could be the norm if we let it ride. Scientists? It was encouraging to hear some elderly folk were making a recovery. Long may they live. the futures so bright
Total and compete bullshit, foot and mouth is eliminated by the destruction of every animal in affected herds, that is not herd immunity which is the only way we will beat this, it doesn't not mean letting the old and vulnerable die it means keeping them safe while the rest of us catch it and recover which 98% plus will do, when that's achieved the vulnerable will be much safer due to the fact there are very few people with it and so cant spread it.Every country in the world is relying on it, there is simply no other option until a vaccine is available and that is in the distance
What is the point of preserving the vulnerable and killing the healthy? Just let the virus kill everyone, it's easier!
No one in his right mind would rely on disease-induced herd immunity. We need a vaccine and we need to stop the spread of the virus until the vaccine is ready. If this means that some people won't be able to sunbathe... who cares?
Do you have the slightest idea how long a vaccine will take to produce ? Its at leat 18 months according to the experts and thats just to get to the stage where large scale trials could take place, there are huge risks giving a vacinne that hasnt been allowed to be tested for medium term complcations, it might just be possible for one to be produced for the vulnerable on the bass that without it they mght die so they have nothing to lose, it wll never be released into the general population until trials have shown it to be safe, if this lockdown carried on for years it would not stop the spread just slow it down and destroy the worlds economy in the process"you must read about the thalidomide tradgedy..... inadequate drug testing | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. " That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? They have already stated that they are seeing the effects of the lockdown." Awesome news! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa? Can you Answer that ? Why is the virus spreading in Africa if the warm climate disturbs him? My bad, sorry. Africa isn't a country. Even in South Africa the climates are very different going into different areas. In the Drakeberg you might have snow whilt in northern kwazulu Natal you are being burned through your t-shirt. South Africa is even banning alcohol sales. I know that. Everyone can guess that it is about warmer countries. This is not about a warm climate but about a small number of tests It's a complex question. If the temperature in the UK is 8 degrees but homes, cars, trains, shops, workplaces are mainly heated and went spend most of our time in 20 something degrees. Whereas in SA gas heating is unheard of so on cold days houses etc are also cold... right now they are just starting to go into the colder time... so time will tell. Perhaps it reduces non-human to human transfer....?" The theory is that hot climates will have more sunshine and therefore more UV Ray's to kill/breakdown the virus. In cold weather the virus deteriorates slowly and in warm weather faster. This is also why the virus is said to live longer on metal and plastic than on paper, the paper absorbs moisture and affects the lipid layer thus destroying it. One advantage of cold weather is that less people will be out and about but in places like Africa with slums where people live 10 to a single room/shack it with little to no sanitation, the weather and lockdown is of little benefit and only serves to double the threat alongside starvation. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? I'm not sure on NZ but Australia are dealing with this in almost the exact same way as us. I know this because I spoke to my brother in law just yesterday. He's been out there over 10 years It might also have something to do with their climate. Some studies suggest the virus doesn't spread as easily in warm climates. So what does the virus do in Africa? Can you Answer that ? Why is the virus spreading in Africa if the warm climate disturbs him? My bad, sorry. Africa isn't a country. Even in South Africa the climates are very different going into different areas. In the Drakeberg you might have snow whilt in northern kwazulu Natal you are being burned through your t-shirt. South Africa is even banning alcohol sales. I know that. Everyone can guess that it is about warmer countries. This is not about a warm climate but about a small number of tests It's a complex question. If the temperature in the UK is 8 degrees but homes, cars, trains, shops, workplaces are mainly heated and went spend most of our time in 20 something degrees. Whereas in SA gas heating is unheard of so on cold days houses etc are also cold... right now they are just starting to go into the colder time... so time will tell. Perhaps it reduces non-human to human transfer....?" Perhaps. We don't know much about this virus so far. There are more conspiracy theories than facts. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll?" In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. " So in your opinion the death toll is a deliberate part of the plan. The PPE shortage, the lack of tests, ventilator fiasco, the strain on the NHS, a 7000+ deathtoll..... all part of the plan? I take it you are against the lockdown then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. So in your opinion the death toll is a deliberate part of the plan. The PPE shortage, the lack of tests, ventilator fiasco, the strain on the NHS, a 7000+ deathtoll..... all part of the plan? I take it you are against the lockdown then?" When will you start to understand that the lack of PPE & ventilators is a worldwide problem?? The NHS is coping just fine as one of their managers said above, it's also been widely reported that ICU's aren't yet full. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. " Why does that remind me of blackadder 4? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. So in your opinion the death toll is a deliberate part of the plan. The PPE shortage, the lack of tests, ventilator fiasco, the strain on the NHS, a 7000+ deathtoll..... all part of the plan? I take it you are against the lockdown then?" Not part of the plan, just part of the consideration of how we respond. Ppe is in short supply worldwide. China manufacture a large percentage and will have used what they need before worrying about the rest of the world. A large portion of the stuff they are exporting is of poor quality and inadequate ?possibly their rejects). The test have also been substandard and having false information is more damaging than no info. They also become inconsequential when you consider we are supposed to be assuming that everyone could potentially infected and behaving/distancing/isolating accordingly. As for ventilators, we are currently managing due to the steps taken to slow the spread. Having more may be beneficial however I'm sure if we could have more we would. If you choose to believe that the government is just letting people die because they have an ulterior motive and/or incompetent then that is up to you. My opinion is that this virus cannot be contained and as such people are going to die. It is a sad, unavoidable fact. Some people cannot be saved even when tested, ventilated and given all the care they can. No matter what this virus is not going away, all we can do is damage limitation whilst nature takes its course. Do I agree with the lockdown? That depends what you mean by lockdown. I agree with the restrictions we currently have in place. A complete lockdown imo is futile, as I said before it is just postponing the inevitable and bring with it more problems on top of the virus which will always be a threat, until we are immune. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. Why does that remind me of blackadder 4?" I dont know, maybe you could elaborate. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. Why does that remind me of blackadder 4? I dont know, maybe you could elaborate." I dont know..the blind faith that they know what they are doing maybe? They have a plan?which plan is this?The one they changed their mind on? Minimize the deaths when they are increasing by The day? Go and have a look at the speech matt Hancock gave to parliament on The 22nd jan (it's on you tube) Porters wrapping bodies up in sheets as they ran out of body bags..NHS begging for equipment to save their lives...NHS staff being gagged for speaking to tthe press. You will have to excuse me for not sharing your opitimisn | |||
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"Herd amunity only works if the herd is not leaving or having new subjects entering the herd. We won't and haven't locked down our borders and will freely open them again to outside of the herd this rendering it a costly approach." Quite the opposite. The whole point of it is that when the herd is over 80% immune any reintroduction of the virus cannot proliferate due to the majority being immune. This in turn limits its spread to the vulnerable 20% making them much safer. We do not yet have herd immunity hence why our most vulnerable are supposed to be completely shielded from society for at least the next few months. | |||
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"Herd amunity only works if the herd is not leaving or having new subjects entering the herd. We won't and haven't locked down our borders and will freely open them again to outside of the herd this rendering it a costly approach. Quite the opposite. The whole point of it is that when the herd is over 80% immune any reintroduction of the virus cannot proliferate due to the majority being immune. This in turn limits its spread to the vulnerable 20% making them much safer. We do not yet have herd immunity hence why our most vulnerable are supposed to be completely shielded from society for at least the next few months." Your completely wrong see the academic studies instead of the Dominic Cummings version | |||
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"Herd amunity only works if the herd is not leaving or having new subjects entering the herd. We won't and haven't locked down our borders and will freely open them again to outside of the herd this rendering it a costly approach. Quite the opposite. The whole point of it is that when the herd is over 80% immune any reintroduction of the virus cannot proliferate due to the majority being immune. This in turn limits its spread to the vulnerable 20% making them much safer. We do not yet have herd immunity hence why our most vulnerable are supposed to be completely shielded from society for at least the next few months." Herd immunity in the way boris planned it is usually genocide. There are better methods for herd immunity. An interesting fact is the obligatory vaccination against tuberculosis. In countries where there is much less infection by covid19. | |||
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"Herd amunity only works if the herd is not leaving or having new subjects entering the herd. We won't and haven't locked down our borders and will freely open them again to outside of the herd this rendering it a costly approach. Quite the opposite. The whole point of it is that when the herd is over 80% immune any reintroduction of the virus cannot proliferate due to the majority being immune. This in turn limits its spread to the vulnerable 20% making them much safer. We do not yet have herd immunity hence why our most vulnerable are supposed to be completely shielded from society for at least the next few months. Your completely wrong see the academic studies instead of the Dominic Cummings version" | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. Why does that remind me of blackadder 4? I dont know, maybe you could elaborate. I dont know..the blind faith that they know what they are doing maybe? They have a plan?which plan is this?The one they changed their mind on? Minimize the deaths when they are increasing by The day? Go and have a look at the speech matt Hancock gave to parliament on The 22nd jan (it's on you tube) Porters wrapping bodies up in sheets as they ran out of body bags..NHS begging for equipment to save their lives...NHS staff being gagged for speaking to tthe press. You will have to excuse me for not sharing your opitimisn" - I'm sure they know better than you or I on what needs to be done. - This plan hasn't changed - deaths rising slower than they would have means deaths are being minimised. - we are dealing with a unprecedented global crisis, it should not be a surprise that our health service is overwhelmed, the whole country/world is. You will have to excuse if I choose to see the bigger picture rather than share your ignorance. Do you really think that a government that is spending fortunes building new hospital wards in just weeks, subsidising virtually the whole country to stay at home and isolate and much, much more, are trying to save a few quid on masks and body bags or dont have the desire to provide them? I think it is incredibly ignorant and illogical to come to that conclusion. | |||
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"Herd amunity only works if the herd is not leaving or having new subjects entering the herd. We won't and haven't locked down our borders and will freely open them again to outside of the herd this rendering it a costly approach. Quite the opposite. The whole point of it is that when the herd is over 80% immune any reintroduction of the virus cannot proliferate due to the majority being immune. This in turn limits its spread to the vulnerable 20% making them much safer. We do not yet have herd immunity hence why our most vulnerable are supposed to be completely shielded from society for at least the next few months. Your completely wrong see the academic studies instead of the Dominic Cummings version" herd immunity noun the resistance to the spread of a contagious disease within a population that results if a sufficiently high proportion of individuals are immune to the disease, especially through vaccination. If you have some evidence to share that shows why herd immunity will not work for corona virus feel free to share. I never said its guaranteed to work however I am sure that the government are far more informed on such matters than you or I. | |||
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"Herd amunity only works if the herd is not leaving or having new subjects entering the herd. We won't and haven't locked down our borders and will freely open them again to outside of the herd this rendering it a costly approach. Quite the opposite. The whole point of it is that when the herd is over 80% immune any reintroduction of the virus cannot proliferate due to the majority being immune. This in turn limits its spread to the vulnerable 20% making them much safer. We do not yet have herd immunity hence why our most vulnerable are supposed to be completely shielded from society for at least the next few months. Herd immunity in the way boris planned it is usually genocide. There are better methods for herd immunity. An interesting fact is the obligatory vaccination against tuberculosis. In countries where there is much less infection by covid19. " Care to explain? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. So in your opinion the death toll is a deliberate part of the plan. The PPE shortage, the lack of tests, ventilator fiasco, the strain on the NHS, a 7000+ deathtoll..... all part of the plan? I take it you are against the lockdown then? When will you start to understand that the lack of PPE & ventilators is a worldwide problem?? The NHS is coping just fine as one of their managers said above, it's also been widely reported that ICU's aren't yet full." When will I understand?????? Oh so that's the problem here! You understand things and other people don't? OK. Have a nice day | |||
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"https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-boris-johnson-ventilator-eu-scheme-nhs-a9429196.html "Yes, that’s it. That’s really it. There’s a mad rush for ventilators, no number is too many, and there’s absolutely no time to lose, but an offer to join a massive ventilator procurement scheme somehow ended up in Boris Johnson’s spam folder or something like that" Fumny how all the other EU countries got the email. Funny that it was on TV and all the news. Strange how we didn't know about it. I UNDERSTAND that Germany is doing 500 000 tests a week with pressure to do more. "Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick said it is hoped that up to 15,000 people a day could be tested for Covid-19 ‘within days’ but that it will take a couple of weeks to hit the 25,000 point" https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/01/uk-wont-test-25000-people-per-day-coronavirus-mid-april-12490572/ " Boris Johnson doesn’t check his own emails, he has a team to do that. It is just a fabrication in my opinion. Michael Gove has said on TV that no such thing happened. | |||
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"https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-boris-johnson-ventilator-eu-scheme-nhs-a9429196.html "Yes, that’s it. That’s really it. There’s a mad rush for ventilators, no number is too many, and there’s absolutely no time to lose, but an offer to join a massive ventilator procurement scheme somehow ended up in Boris Johnson’s spam folder or something like that" Fumny how all the other EU countries got the email. Funny that it was on TV and all the news. Strange how we didn't know about it. I UNDERSTAND that Germany is doing 500 000 tests a week with pressure to do more. "Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick said it is hoped that up to 15,000 people a day could be tested for Covid-19 ‘within days’ but that it will take a couple of weeks to hit the 25,000 point" https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/01/uk-wont-test-25000-people-per-day-coronavirus-mid-april-12490572/ Boris Johnson doesn’t check his own emails, he has a team to do that. It is just a fabrication in my opinion. Michael Gove has said on TV that no such thing happened. " What are you saying didn't happen? That we didn't get an offer from the EU to buy ventilators? Or that we didn't miss out on that opportunity? Or that we didn't miss out on that opportunity because because of a missed email? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-boris-johnson-ventilator-eu-scheme-nhs-a9429196.html "Yes, that’s it. That’s really it. There’s a mad rush for ventilators, no number is too many, and there’s absolutely no time to lose, but an offer to join a massive ventilator procurement scheme somehow ended up in Boris Johnson’s spam folder or something like that" Fumny how all the other EU countries got the email. Funny that it was on TV and all the news. Strange how we didn't know about it. I UNDERSTAND that Germany is doing 500 000 tests a week with pressure to do more. "Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick said it is hoped that up to 15,000 people a day could be tested for Covid-19 ‘within days’ but that it will take a couple of weeks to hit the 25,000 point" https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/01/uk-wont-test-25000-people-per-day-coronavirus-mid-april-12490572/ Boris Johnson doesn’t check his own emails, he has a team to do that. It is just a fabrication in my opinion. Michael Gove has said on TV that no such thing happened. What are you saying didn't happen? That we didn't get an offer from the EU to buy ventilators? Or that we didn't miss out on that opportunity? Or that we didn't miss out on that opportunity because because of a missed email?" Why you getting so worked up about it. Many countries didn't see this coming and many did not have enough equipment or ppe. I feel your just trying to make a political point. This is no time for politics | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-boris-johnson-ventilator-eu-scheme-nhs-a9429196.html "Yes, that’s it. That’s really it. There’s a mad rush for ventilators, no number is too many, and there’s absolutely no time to lose, but an offer to join a massive ventilator procurement scheme somehow ended up in Boris Johnson’s spam folder or something like that" Fumny how all the other EU countries got the email. Funny that it was on TV and all the news. Strange how we didn't know about it. I UNDERSTAND that Germany is doing 500 000 tests a week with pressure to do more. "Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick said it is hoped that up to 15,000 people a day could be tested for Covid-19 ‘within days’ but that it will take a couple of weeks to hit the 25,000 point" https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/01/uk-wont-test-25000-people-per-day-coronavirus-mid-april-12490572/ Boris Johnson doesn’t check his own emails, he has a team to do that. It is just a fabrication in my opinion. Michael Gove has said on TV that no such thing happened. What are you saying didn't happen? That we didn't get an offer from the EU to buy ventilators? Or that we didn't miss out on that opportunity? Or that we didn't miss out on that opportunity because because of a missed email?" I’m saying Boris didn’t miss an email. I’m also saying that I think if there was such an offer it would have come from a reliable source and therefore wouldn’t end up in junk. I’m also saying that Michael Give stated that it didn’t happen. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. So in your opinion the death toll is a deliberate part of the plan. The PPE shortage, the lack of tests, ventilator fiasco, the strain on the NHS, a 7000+ deathtoll..... all part of the plan? I take it you are against the lockdown then? When will you start to understand that the lack of PPE & ventilators is a worldwide problem?? The NHS is coping just fine as one of their managers said above, it's also been widely reported that ICU's aren't yet full. When will I understand?????? Oh so that's the problem here! You understand things and other people don't? OK. Have a nice day "I understand that there is a shortage of equipment worldwide, it's been widely reported. However, almost all of your argument is 'why don't we have this, why weren't we prepared?' If it's not available to the rest of the world, what makes you think our government can just pull it our or their arses? As for the EU ventilator scheme. I agree we should've been part of it. However, it remains stagnant. Why is this? Because they cannot procure enough. It's very simple if you follow the facts instead of an agenda | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. Wrong tense, they are fighting it as every other country is still doing They fought, are fighting, and shall continue to fight. New Zealand had no COVID-19 deaths today. Australia reported one. Is that because they have herd immunity or because isolation works? How many travel to NZ in a year compared to the uk in a day ? Iirc 220,000 a day travel through Heathrow a day, just looked up the stats for NZ total for the year around 40 million, that's half of just heathrow for the whole of NZ, then add in all the ferries, chunnel etc, and you think tracing is possible ? I really hope it works for NZ but it only takes one person to start it up again Are you the same person who stated that 80% of the population need to get the virus before winter? Maybe you should start to dismiss the ‘herd immunity’ theory as it obviously doesn’t work
Herd immunity is the only way europe will deal with the virus,and it will need about 80% to achieve it. How do you know it wont work ? It hadn't been achieved yet, it works for flu or far more would die from it each year, only those with poor immune systems die from flu, without herd immunity in the majority of the population we would be in the same situation with flu as we currently are with cv19.
So, to reiterate, 80% of Europe need to catch the virus? That is 592 million people. What sort of time frame are you looking at ? "As fast as possible consistent with health services being able to cope, K is nhs and may have to be redeployed but so far in this area they arent needed and space in ICU. There is no other way until a vaccine is available and that is a long way away for the general population due to the time it takes to test it for complications, it may come earlier for those who are very vulnerable as it could save their life now and let them worry about complications later.what we need is a reliable antibody test. We know lots who have had it, some have ben tested due to working in the nhs some have ben told by nhs services of various sorts. Only one needed a paramedic visit but has recovered. It is possible we have had it as we both had a few symptoms but it could have been something else, neither of us are concerned | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. So in your opinion the death toll is a deliberate part of the plan. The PPE shortage, the lack of tests, ventilator fiasco, the strain on the NHS, a 7000+ deathtoll..... all part of the plan? I take it you are against the lockdown then? When will you start to understand that the lack of PPE & ventilators is a worldwide problem?? The NHS is coping just fine as one of their managers said above, it's also been widely reported that ICU's aren't yet full. When will I understand?????? Oh so that's the problem here! You understand things and other people don't? OK. Have a nice day
I understand that there is a shortage of equipment worldwide, it's been widely reported.
However, almost all of your argument is 'why don't we have this, why weren't we prepared?'
If it's not available to the rest of the world, what makes you think our government can just pull it our or their arses?
As for the EU ventilator scheme. I agree we should've been part of it. However, it remains stagnant. Why is this? Because they cannot procure enough.
It's very simple if you follow the facts instead of an agenda"No need to continue this discussion. You know everything. I know nothing. You have facts. I have an agenda. Have a nice day | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. So in your opinion the death toll is a deliberate part of the plan. The PPE shortage, the lack of tests, ventilator fiasco, the strain on the NHS, a 7000+ deathtoll..... all part of the plan? I take it you are against the lockdown then? When will you start to understand that the lack of PPE & ventilators is a worldwide problem?? The NHS is coping just fine as one of their managers said above, it's also been widely reported that ICU's aren't yet full. When will I understand?????? Oh so that's the problem here! You understand things and other people don't? OK. Have a nice day
I understand that there is a shortage of equipment worldwide, it's been widely reported.
However, almost all of your argument is 'why don't we have this, why weren't we prepared?'
If it's not available to the rest of the world, what makes you think our government can just pull it our or their arses?
As for the EU ventilator scheme. I agree we should've been part of it. However, it remains stagnant. Why is this? Because they cannot procure enough.
It's very simple if you follow the facts instead of an agenda
No need to continue this discussion. You know everything. I know nothing. You have facts. I have an agenda.
Have a nice day "The most intelligent thing I have seen you say " You know nothing " Finally talking some sense, I think I need a lay down 
Have a nice day, keep scaremongering and eating those ego vitamins | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. So in your opinion the death toll is a deliberate part of the plan. The PPE shortage, the lack of tests, ventilator fiasco, the strain on the NHS, a 7000+ deathtoll..... all part of the plan? I take it you are against the lockdown then? When will you start to understand that the lack of PPE & ventilators is a worldwide problem?? The NHS is coping just fine as one of their managers said above, it's also been widely reported that ICU's aren't yet full. When will I understand?????? Oh so that's the problem here! You understand things and other people don't? OK. Have a nice day
I understand that there is a shortage of equipment worldwide, it's been widely reported.
However, almost all of your argument is 'why don't we have this, why weren't we prepared?'
If it's not available to the rest of the world, what makes you think our government can just pull it our or their arses?
As for the EU ventilator scheme. I agree we should've been part of it. However, it remains stagnant. Why is this? Because they cannot procure enough.
It's very simple if you follow the facts instead of an agenda
No need to continue this discussion. You know everything. I know nothing. You have facts. I have an agenda.
Have a nice day
The most intelligent thing I have seen you say " You know nothing " Finally talking some sense, I think I need a lay down
Have a nice day, keep scaremongering and eating those ego vitamins "Since you know everything you will know what condescending means. Since you are so clever you will understand the irony of a person who is condescending towards others giving lectures on egotism. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. So in your opinion the death toll is a deliberate part of the plan. The PPE shortage, the lack of tests, ventilator fiasco, the strain on the NHS, a 7000+ deathtoll..... all part of the plan? I take it you are against the lockdown then? When will you start to understand that the lack of PPE & ventilators is a worldwide problem?? The NHS is coping just fine as one of their managers said above, it's also been widely reported that ICU's aren't yet full. When will I understand?????? Oh so that's the problem here! You understand things and other people don't? OK. Have a nice day
I understand that there is a shortage of equipment worldwide, it's been widely reported.
However, almost all of your argument is 'why don't we have this, why weren't we prepared?'
If it's not available to the rest of the world, what makes you think our government can just pull it our or their arses?
As for the EU ventilator scheme. I agree we should've been part of it. However, it remains stagnant. Why is this? Because they cannot procure enough.
It's very simple if you follow the facts instead of an agenda
No need to continue this discussion. You know everything. I know nothing. You have facts. I have an agenda.
Have a nice day
The most intelligent thing I have seen you say " You know nothing " Finally talking some sense, I think I need a lay down
Have a nice day, keep scaremongering and eating those ego vitamins
Since you know everything you will know what condescending means. Since you are so clever you will understand the irony of a person who is condescending towards others giving lectures on egotism."Sorry emoji police | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. Why does that remind me of blackadder 4? I dont know, maybe you could elaborate. I dont know..the blind faith that they know what they are doing maybe? They have a plan?which plan is this?The one they changed their mind on? Minimize the deaths when they are increasing by The day? Go and have a look at the speech matt Hancock gave to parliament on The 22nd jan (it's on you tube) Porters wrapping bodies up in sheets as they ran out of body bags..NHS begging for equipment to save their lives...NHS staff being gagged for speaking to tthe press. You will have to excuse me for not sharing your opitimisn - I'm sure they know better than you or I on what needs to be done. - This plan hasn't changed - deaths rising slower than they would have means deaths are being minimised. - we are dealing with a unprecedented global crisis, it should not be a surprise that our health service is overwhelmed, the whole country/world is. You will have to excuse if I choose to see the bigger picture rather than share your ignorance. Do you really think that a government that is spending fortunes building new hospital wards in just weeks, subsidising virtually the whole country to stay at home and isolate and much, much more, are trying to save a few quid on masks and body bags or dont have the desire to provide them? I think it is incredibly ignorant and illogical to come to that conclusion." A gmnt that is spending fortunes?you realise nightingale was already built? I cant really add to that. I'm sure you are much more informed than the head of nursing. | |||
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"https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-boris-johnson-ventilator-eu-scheme-nhs-a9429196.html "Yes, that’s it. That’s really it. There’s a mad rush for ventilators, no number is too many, and there’s absolutely no time to lose, but an offer to join a massive ventilator procurement scheme somehow ended up in Boris Johnson’s spam folder or something like that" Fumny how all the other EU countries got the email. Funny that it was on TV and all the news. Strange how we didn't know about it. I UNDERSTAND that Germany is doing 500 000 tests a week with pressure to do more. "Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick said it is hoped that up to 15,000 people a day could be tested for Covid-19 ‘within days’ but that it will take a couple of weeks to hit the 25,000 point" https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/01/uk-wont-test-25000-people-per-day-coronavirus-mid-april-12490572/ Boris Johnson doesn’t check his own emails, he has a team to do that. It is just a fabrication in my opinion. Michael Gove has said on TV that no such thing happened. What are you saying didn't happen? That we didn't get an offer from the EU to buy ventilators? Or that we didn't miss out on that opportunity? Or that we didn't miss out on that opportunity because because of a missed email? Why you getting so worked up about it. Many countries didn't see this coming and many did not have enough equipment or ppe. I feel your just trying to make a political point. This is no time for politics" Why are you getting so worked up about it? Yep it's a head scratcher | |||
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"We know better. Other countries shut dowm their borders. We knew better. We kept them open. Other countries went into immediate lockdown. We knew better. We kept things going in measured phases. Other countries followed a regimen of track, trace, isolate. We knew better. We embarked on a strategy of herd immunity which requires a process of half hearted unenforced "lockdown". Statistically the only thing we're doing better is dying better. So let us continue to blindly follow our government. Not question anything. Make up redicilous arguments to hide their fluff ups. Bury our dead in frightful and heartbreaking numbers and say "Jolly good show!" Because this is preferable to admitting we messed it up completely." They have lied They have delayed They have promised targets and not delivered They have seen the death of elderly people as a price worth paying They will gag the nhs from talking about it and they will make non essential workers put themselves and others in danger when there is absolutely no need. And people will still refuse to accept any criticism of them and accuse you of "bringing politics into it" You just cant reason with that type of "logic' | |||
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"https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-boris-johnson-ventilator-eu-scheme-nhs-a9429196.html "Yes, that’s it. That’s really it. There’s a mad rush for ventilators, no number is too many, and there’s absolutely no time to lose, but an offer to join a massive ventilator procurement scheme somehow ended up in Boris Johnson’s spam folder or something like that" Fumny how all the other EU countries got the email. Funny that it was on TV and all the news. Strange how we didn't know about it. I UNDERSTAND that Germany is doing 500 000 tests a week with pressure to do more. "Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick said it is hoped that up to 15,000 people a day could be tested for Covid-19 ‘within days’ but that it will take a couple of weeks to hit the 25,000 point" https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/01/uk-wont-test-25000-people-per-day-coronavirus-mid-april-12490572/ Boris Johnson doesn’t check his own emails, he has a team to do that. It is just a fabrication in my opinion. Michael Gove has said on TV that no such thing happened. What are you saying didn't happen? That we didn't get an offer from the EU to buy ventilators? Or that we didn't miss out on that opportunity? Or that we didn't miss out on that opportunity because because of a missed email? Why you getting so worked up about it. Many countries didn't see this coming and many did not have enough equipment or ppe. I feel your just trying to make a political point. This is no time for politics" Is asking three questions getting worked up? Ok... But not being able to answer them pretty much proves my point. Are you saying governments are beyond criticism because any such criticism is seen as politicising? You're right. This is no time for politics. It's a time to recognize our mistakes and making sure we don't make them again instead of sticking our head in the sand and pretending they don't exist. The government can bob and weave and put up smoke screens but at the end of the day we have an undeniable body count that tells the true story. | |||
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"We know better. Other countries shut dowm their borders. We knew better. We kept them open. Other countries went into immediate lockdown. We knew better. We kept things going in measured phases. Other countries followed a regimen of track, trace, isolate. We knew better. We embarked on a strategy of herd immunity which requires a process of half hearted unenforced "lockdown". Statistically the only thing we're doing better is dying better. So let us continue to blindly follow our government. Not question anything. Make up redicilous arguments to hide their fluff ups. Bury our dead in frightful and heartbreaking numbers and say "Jolly good show!" Because this is preferable to admitting we messed it up completely. They have lied They have delayed They have promised targets and not delivered They have seen the death of elderly people as a price worth paying They will gag the nhs from talking about it and they will make non essential workers put themselves and others in danger when there is absolutely no need. And people will still refuse to accept any criticism of them and accuse you of "bringing politics into it" You just cant reason with that type of "logic' " It's because when you criticise the government, they see it as you criticising their vote and take it personally. Hence the personal counter attacks with no logic, no factual base. The forum equivalent of hair pulling. Lots of handbags flying around today. But no facts, no stats, no reason. Very mature! Good to know someone has his eyes open instead of their head stuck in the sand | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We know better. Other countries shut dowm their borders. We knew better. We kept them open. Other countries went into immediate lockdown. We knew better. We kept things going in measured phases. Other countries followed a regimen of track, trace, isolate. We knew better. We embarked on a strategy of herd immunity which requires a process of half hearted unenforced "lockdown". Statistically the only thing we're doing better is dying better. So let us continue to blindly follow our government. Not question anything. Make up redicilous arguments to hide their fluff ups. Bury our dead in frightful and heartbreaking numbers and say "Jolly good show!" Because this is preferable to admitting we messed it up completely. They have lied They have delayed They have promised targets and not delivered They have seen the death of elderly people as a price worth paying They will gag the nhs from talking about it and they will make non essential workers put themselves and others in danger when there is absolutely no need. And people will still refuse to accept any criticism of them and accuse you of "bringing politics into it" You just cant reason with that type of "logic' It's because when you criticise the government, they see it as you criticising their vote and take it personally. Hence the personal counter attacks with no logic, no factual base. The forum equivalent of hair pulling. Lots of handbags flying around today. But no facts, no stats, no reason. Very mature! Good to know someone has his eyes open instead of their head stuck in the sand "The irony in this statement is unreal. When I pointed out that I was following facts re. Ventilators, PPE & NHS coping you said that there was nothing else to talk about  (sorry, not sorry) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We know better. Other countries shut dowm their borders. We knew better. We kept them open. Other countries went into immediate lockdown. We knew better. We kept things going in measured phases. Other countries followed a regimen of track, trace, isolate. We knew better. We embarked on a strategy of herd immunity which requires a process of half hearted unenforced "lockdown". Statistically the only thing we're doing better is dying better. So let us continue to blindly follow our government. Not question anything. Make up redicilous arguments to hide their fluff ups. Bury our dead in frightful and heartbreaking numbers and say "Jolly good show!" Because this is preferable to admitting we messed it up completely. They have lied They have delayed They have promised targets and not delivered They have seen the death of elderly people as a price worth paying They will gag the nhs from talking about it and they will make non essential workers put themselves and others in danger when there is absolutely no need. And people will still refuse to accept any criticism of them and accuse you of "bringing politics into it" You just cant reason with that type of "logic' It's because when you criticise the government, they see it as you criticising their vote and take it personally. Hence the personal counter attacks with no logic, no factual base. The forum equivalent of hair pulling. Lots of handbags flying around today. But no facts, no stats, no reason. Very mature! Good to know someone has his eyes open instead of their head stuck in the sand
The irony in this statement is unreal.
When I pointed out that I was following facts re. Ventilators, PPE & NHS coping you said that there was nothing else to talk about (sorry, not sorry)"You see that a lot on here. | |||
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"We know better. Other countries shut dowm their borders. We knew better. We kept them open. Other countries went into immediate lockdown. We knew better. We kept things going in measured phases. Other countries followed a regimen of track, trace, isolate. We knew better. We embarked on a strategy of herd immunity which requires a process of half hearted unenforced "lockdown". Statistically the only thing we're doing better is dying better. So let us continue to blindly follow our government. Not question anything. Make up redicilous arguments to hide their fluff ups. Bury our dead in frightful and heartbreaking numbers and say "Jolly good show!" Because this is preferable to admitting we messed it up completely. They have lied They have delayed They have promised targets and not delivered They have seen the death of elderly people as a price worth paying They will gag the nhs from talking about it and they will make non essential workers put themselves and others in danger when there is absolutely no need. And people will still refuse to accept any criticism of them and accuse you of "bringing politics into it" You just cant reason with that type of "logic' It's because when you criticise the government, they see it as you criticising their vote and take it personally. Hence the personal counter attacks with no logic, no factual base. The forum equivalent of hair pulling. Lots of handbags flying around today. But no facts, no stats, no reason. Very mature! Good to know someone has his eyes open instead of their head stuck in the sand
The irony in this statement is unreal.
When I pointed out that I was following facts re. Ventilators, PPE & NHS coping you said that there was nothing else to talk about (sorry, not sorry)"Sorry for the misunderstanding. What I actually meant was I have nothing to discuss with you. I was responding to someone who makes worthwhile, well thought out statements. Irony is when someone who criticises someone for their egotism then goes on to think he's so important that he gets to tell people to shut up and not have an opinion. You have made no point. Germany had no advanced warning that we didn't have. Yet they are doing 500 000 tests per week. What are we doing by comparison? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/uk-must-learn-from-german-response-to-covid-19-says-whitty "More than three weeks ago NHS England announced it would scale up testing capacity to 10,000 a day, but the number of people tested has struggled to pass 8,000 a day" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/05/coronavirus-testing-uk-how-many-done/ So there you have it. Aiming for 10 000 a day (70 000/week) while another country does 500 000 per week. Don't fix that problem. Just attack the people who point it out. | |||
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"We know better. Other countries shut dowm their borders. We knew better. We kept them open. Other countries went into immediate lockdown. We knew better. We kept things going in measured phases. Other countries followed a regimen of track, trace, isolate. We knew better. We embarked on a strategy of herd immunity which requires a process of half hearted unenforced "lockdown". Statistically the only thing we're doing better is dying better. So let us continue to blindly follow our government. Not question anything. Make up redicilous arguments to hide their fluff ups. Bury our dead in frightful and heartbreaking numbers and say "Jolly good show!" Because this is preferable to admitting we messed it up completely. They have lied They have delayed They have promised targets and not delivered They have seen the death of elderly people as a price worth paying They will gag the nhs from talking about it and they will make non essential workers put themselves and others in danger when there is absolutely no need. And people will still refuse to accept any criticism of them and accuse you of "bringing politics into it" You just cant reason with that type of "logic' It's because when you criticise the government, they see it as you criticising their vote and take it personally. Hence the personal counter attacks with no logic, no factual base. The forum equivalent of hair pulling. Lots of handbags flying around today. But no facts, no stats, no reason. Very mature! Good to know someone has his eyes open instead of their head stuck in the sand
The irony in this statement is unreal.
When I pointed out that I was following facts re. Ventilators, PPE & NHS coping you said that there was nothing else to talk about (sorry, not sorry)
Sorry for the misunderstanding. What I actually meant was I have nothing to discuss with you.
I was responding to someone who makes worthwhile, well thought out statements.
Irony is when someone who criticises someone for their egotism then goes on to think he's so important that he gets to tell people to shut up and not have an opinion.
You have made no point. Germany had no advanced warning that we didn't have. Yet they are doing 500 000 tests per week. What are we doing by comparison?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/uk-must-learn-from-german-response-to-covid-19-says-whitty
"More than three weeks ago NHS England announced it would scale up testing capacity to 10,000 a day, but the number of people tested has struggled to pass 8,000 a day"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/05/coronavirus-testing-uk-how-many-done/
So there you have it. Aiming for 10 000 a day (70 000/week) while another country does 500 000 per week.
Don't fix that problem. Just attack the people who point it out.
"You specifically called into question the lack of PPE, lack of tests, NHS coping & Ventilator fiasco. I addressed 3 of those issues and you said you have nothing further to say whilst saying I know everything and you nothing, I never once said that so if you assumed it that's your problem. Allow me to now address the 4th thing you've called into question. Lack of tests. What good would testing more people do? We have no vaccine. All it would do is make of mortality rate look better on paper | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We know better. Other countries shut dowm their borders. We knew better. We kept them open. Other countries went into immediate lockdown. We knew better. We kept things going in measured phases. Other countries followed a regimen of track, trace, isolate. We knew better. We embarked on a strategy of herd immunity which requires a process of half hearted unenforced "lockdown". Statistically the only thing we're doing better is dying better. So let us continue to blindly follow our government. Not question anything. Make up redicilous arguments to hide their fluff ups. Bury our dead in frightful and heartbreaking numbers and say "Jolly good show!" Because this is preferable to admitting we messed it up completely. They have lied They have delayed They have promised targets and not delivered They have seen the death of elderly people as a price worth paying They will gag the nhs from talking about it and they will make non essential workers put themselves and others in danger when there is absolutely no need. And people will still refuse to accept any criticism of them and accuse you of "bringing politics into it" You just cant reason with that type of "logic' It's because when you criticise the government, they see it as you criticising their vote and take it personally. Hence the personal counter attacks with no logic, no factual base. The forum equivalent of hair pulling. Lots of handbags flying around today. But no facts, no stats, no reason. Very mature! Good to know someone has his eyes open instead of their head stuck in the sand
The irony in this statement is unreal.
When I pointed out that I was following facts re. Ventilators, PPE & NHS coping you said that there was nothing else to talk about (sorry, not sorry)
Sorry for the misunderstanding. What I actually meant was I have nothing to discuss with you.
I was responding to someone who makes worthwhile, well thought out statements.
Irony is when someone who criticises someone for their egotism then goes on to think he's so important that he gets to tell people to shut up and not have an opinion.
You have made no point. Germany had no advanced warning that we didn't have. Yet they are doing 500 000 tests per week. What are we doing by comparison?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/uk-must-learn-from-german-response-to-covid-19-says-whitty
"More than three weeks ago NHS England announced it would scale up testing capacity to 10,000 a day, but the number of people tested has struggled to pass 8,000 a day"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/05/coronavirus-testing-uk-how-many-done/
So there you have it. Aiming for 10 000 a day (70 000/week) while another country does 500 000 per week.
Don't fix that problem. Just attack the people who point it out.
"Johnson originally said 100,000 day on The today programme Hancock revived this to 10 ,000 a day and it was still an achievement They are not even reaching that. A finger print test has been disbanded as its completely ineffective. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We know better. Other countries shut dowm their borders. We knew better. We kept them open. Other countries went into immediate lockdown. We knew better. We kept things going in measured phases. Other countries followed a regimen of track, trace, isolate. We knew better. We embarked on a strategy of herd immunity which requires a process of half hearted unenforced "lockdown". Statistically the only thing we're doing better is dying better. So let us continue to blindly follow our government. Not question anything. Make up redicilous arguments to hide their fluff ups. Bury our dead in frightful and heartbreaking numbers and say "Jolly good show!" Because this is preferable to admitting we messed it up completely. They have lied They have delayed They have promised targets and not delivered They have seen the death of elderly people as a price worth paying They will gag the nhs from talking about it and they will make non essential workers put themselves and others in danger when there is absolutely no need. And people will still refuse to accept any criticism of them and accuse you of "bringing politics into it" You just cant reason with that type of "logic' It's because when you criticise the government, they see it as you criticising their vote and take it personally. Hence the personal counter attacks with no logic, no factual base. The forum equivalent of hair pulling. Lots of handbags flying around today. But no facts, no stats, no reason. Very mature! Good to know someone has his eyes open instead of their head stuck in the sand
The irony in this statement is unreal.
When I pointed out that I was following facts re. Ventilators, PPE & NHS coping you said that there was nothing else to talk about (sorry, not sorry)
Sorry for the misunderstanding. What I actually meant was I have nothing to discuss with you.
I was responding to someone who makes worthwhile, well thought out statements.
Irony is when someone who criticises someone for their egotism then goes on to think he's so important that he gets to tell people to shut up and not have an opinion.
You have made no point. Germany had no advanced warning that we didn't have. Yet they are doing 500 000 tests per week. What are we doing by comparison?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/uk-must-learn-from-german-response-to-covid-19-says-whitty
"More than three weeks ago NHS England announced it would scale up testing capacity to 10,000 a day, but the number of people tested has struggled to pass 8,000 a day"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/05/coronavirus-testing-uk-how-many-done/
So there you have it. Aiming for 10 000 a day (70 000/week) while another country does 500 000 per week.
Don't fix that problem. Just attack the people who point it out.
You specifically called into question the lack of PPE, lack of tests, NHS coping & Ventilator fiasco.
I addressed 3 of those issues and you said you have nothing further to say whilst saying I know everything and you nothing, I never once said that so if you assumed it that's your problem.
Allow me to now address the 4th thing you've called into question. Lack of tests.
What good would testing more people do? We have no vaccine. All it would do is make of mortality rate look better on paper "It will also serve the purpose of identifing key workers that are spreading the virus or key workers that can work because thay just have a bit of flu. And while it is true that there is a global shortage of PPE, reagents, and ventilators, it is also true that other countries don't have the same issues that UK is experiencing. Buying those things is difficult for everyone in the middle of the crisis. This is the reason why other countries planned ahead. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We know better. Other countries shut dowm their borders. We knew better. We kept them open. Other countries went into immediate lockdown. We knew better. We kept things going in measured phases. Other countries followed a regimen of track, trace, isolate. We knew better. We embarked on a strategy of herd immunity which requires a process of half hearted unenforced "lockdown". Statistically the only thing we're doing better is dying better. So let us continue to blindly follow our government. Not question anything. Make up redicilous arguments to hide their fluff ups. Bury our dead in frightful and heartbreaking numbers and say "Jolly good show!" Because this is preferable to admitting we messed it up completely. They have lied They have delayed They have promised targets and not delivered They have seen the death of elderly people as a price worth paying They will gag the nhs from talking about it and they will make non essential workers put themselves and others in danger when there is absolutely no need. And people will still refuse to accept any criticism of them and accuse you of "bringing politics into it" You just cant reason with that type of "logic' It's because when you criticise the government, they see it as you criticising their vote and take it personally. Hence the personal counter attacks with no logic, no factual base. The forum equivalent of hair pulling. Lots of handbags flying around today. But no facts, no stats, no reason. Very mature! Good to know someone has his eyes open instead of their head stuck in the sand
The irony in this statement is unreal.
When I pointed out that I was following facts re. Ventilators, PPE & NHS coping you said that there was nothing else to talk about (sorry, not sorry)
Sorry for the misunderstanding. What I actually meant was I have nothing to discuss with you.
I was responding to someone who makes worthwhile, well thought out statements.
Irony is when someone who criticises someone for their egotism then goes on to think he's so important that he gets to tell people to shut up and not have an opinion.
You have made no point. Germany had no advanced warning that we didn't have. Yet they are doing 500 000 tests per week. What are we doing by comparison?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/uk-must-learn-from-german-response-to-covid-19-says-whitty
"More than three weeks ago NHS England announced it would scale up testing capacity to 10,000 a day, but the number of people tested has struggled to pass 8,000 a day"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/05/coronavirus-testing-uk-how-many-done/
So there you have it. Aiming for 10 000 a day (70 000/week) while another country does 500 000 per week.
Don't fix that problem. Just attack the people who point it out.
You specifically called into question the lack of PPE, lack of tests, NHS coping & Ventilator fiasco.
I addressed 3 of those issues and you said you have nothing further to say whilst saying I know everything and you nothing, I never once said that so if you assumed it that's your problem.
Allow me to now address the 4th thing you've called into question. Lack of tests.
What good would testing more people do? We have no vaccine. All it would do is make of mortality rate look better on paper
It will also serve the purpose of identifing key workers that are spreading the virus or key workers that can work because thay just have a bit of flu.
And while it is true that there is a global shortage of PPE, reagents, and ventilators, it is also true that other countries don't have the same issues that UK is experiencing. Buying those things is difficult for everyone in the middle of the crisis. This is the reason why other countries planned ahead."People shouldnt be working if they have a bit of flu though! This is why people die of the flu even after being vaccinated because sick people go outside while contagious. Differentiating between different contagious pathogens doesnt mean oh you got flu you can go to work if you go covid 19 you stay home. You should stay home with the flu! especially if you work with people vulnerable like in a hospital. People who have had surgeries and other illnesses means the body is in a weakened state its recovering and putting every effort into doing so, it doesnt need something else to put a strain on the body. MRSA is a killer for that very reason! People can be walking round with it and be fine till your body is compromised then it wreaks havoc. Just as with any additional pathogen on the body. This is why everyone is tested prior to surgery for MRSA as they dont want you to be overcome by the bacteria that at the time has been relatively harmless to you till your body is compromised. So if youre contagious stay home!! Employers should be supporting this than risking exposing every member of staff and public to contagions no matter the business | |||
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"We know better. Other countries shut dowm their borders. We knew better. We kept them open. Other countries went into immediate lockdown. We knew better. We kept things going in measured phases. Other countries followed a regimen of track, trace, isolate. We knew better. We embarked on a strategy of herd immunity which requires a process of half hearted unenforced "lockdown". Statistically the only thing we're doing better is dying better. So let us continue to blindly follow our government. Not question anything. Make up redicilous arguments to hide their fluff ups. Bury our dead in frightful and heartbreaking numbers and say "Jolly good show!" Because this is preferable to admitting we messed it up completely. They have lied They have delayed They have promised targets and not delivered They have seen the death of elderly people as a price worth paying They will gag the nhs from talking about it and they will make non essential workers put themselves and others in danger when there is absolutely no need. And people will still refuse to accept any criticism of them and accuse you of "bringing politics into it" You just cant reason with that type of "logic' It's because when you criticise the government, they see it as you criticising their vote and take it personally. Hence the personal counter attacks with no logic, no factual base. The forum equivalent of hair pulling. Lots of handbags flying around today. But no facts, no stats, no reason. Very mature! Good to know someone has his eyes open instead of their head stuck in the sand
The irony in this statement is unreal.
When I pointed out that I was following facts re. Ventilators, PPE & NHS coping you said that there was nothing else to talk about (sorry, not sorry)
Sorry for the misunderstanding. What I actually meant was I have nothing to discuss with you.
I was responding to someone who makes worthwhile, well thought out statements.
Irony is when someone who criticises someone for their egotism then goes on to think he's so important that he gets to tell people to shut up and not have an opinion.
You have made no point. Germany had no advanced warning that we didn't have. Yet they are doing 500 000 tests per week. What are we doing by comparison?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/uk-must-learn-from-german-response-to-covid-19-says-whitty
"More than three weeks ago NHS England announced it would scale up testing capacity to 10,000 a day, but the number of people tested has struggled to pass 8,000 a day"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/05/coronavirus-testing-uk-how-many-done/
So there you have it. Aiming for 10 000 a day (70 000/week) while another country does 500 000 per week.
Don't fix that problem. Just attack the people who point it out.
You specifically called into question the lack of PPE, lack of tests, NHS coping & Ventilator fiasco.
I addressed 3 of those issues and you said you have nothing further to say whilst saying I know everything and you nothing, I never once said that so if you assumed it that's your problem.
Allow me to now address the 4th thing you've called into question. Lack of tests.
What good would testing more people do? We have no vaccine. All it would do is make of mortality rate look better on paper
It will also serve the purpose of identifing key workers that are spreading the virus or key workers that can work because thay just have a bit of flu.
And while it is true that there is a global shortage of PPE, reagents, and ventilators, it is also true that other countries don't have the same issues that UK is experiencing. Buying those things is difficult for everyone in the middle of the crisis. This is the reason why other countries planned ahead.
People shouldnt be working if they have a bit of flu though!
This is why people die of the flu even after being vaccinated because sick people go outside while contagious.
Differentiating between different contagious pathogens doesnt mean oh you got flu you can go to work if you go covid 19 you stay home. You should stay home with the flu! especially if you work with people vulnerable like in a hospital. People who have had surgeries and other illnesses means the body is in a weakened state its recovering and putting every effort into doing so, it doesnt need something else to put a strain on the body. MRSA is a killer for that very reason! People can be walking round with it and be fine till your body is compromised then it wreaks havoc. Just as with any additional pathogen on the body. This is why everyone is tested prior to surgery for MRSA as they dont want you to be overcome by the bacteria that at the time has been relatively harmless to you till your body is compromised.
So if youre contagious stay home!! Employers should be supporting this than risking exposing every member of staff and public to contagions no matter the business"Someone who gets it. If you show any symptoms at all then stay home whether you're a key worker or not. And don't come with the asymptomatic argument because that can be said for any virus. And please stop calling yourself names as if I've said them. It really devalues your argument. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We know better. Other countries shut dowm their borders. We knew better. We kept them open. Other countries went into immediate lockdown. We knew better. We kept things going in measured phases. Other countries followed a regimen of track, trace, isolate. We knew better. We embarked on a strategy of herd immunity which requires a process of half hearted unenforced "lockdown". Statistically the only thing we're doing better is dying better. So let us continue to blindly follow our government. Not question anything. Make up redicilous arguments to hide their fluff ups. Bury our dead in frightful and heartbreaking numbers and say "Jolly good show!" Because this is preferable to admitting we messed it up completely. They have lied They have delayed They have promised targets and not delivered They have seen the death of elderly people as a price worth paying They will gag the nhs from talking about it and they will make non essential workers put themselves and others in danger when there is absolutely no need. And people will still refuse to accept any criticism of them and accuse you of "bringing politics into it" You just cant reason with that type of "logic' It's because when you criticise the government, they see it as you criticising their vote and take it personally. Hence the personal counter attacks with no logic, no factual base. The forum equivalent of hair pulling. Lots of handbags flying around today. But no facts, no stats, no reason. Very mature! Good to know someone has his eyes open instead of their head stuck in the sand
The irony in this statement is unreal.
When I pointed out that I was following facts re. Ventilators, PPE & NHS coping you said that there was nothing else to talk about (sorry, not sorry)
Sorry for the misunderstanding. What I actually meant was I have nothing to discuss with you.
I was responding to someone who makes worthwhile, well thought out statements.
Irony is when someone who criticises someone for their egotism then goes on to think he's so important that he gets to tell people to shut up and not have an opinion.
You have made no point. Germany had no advanced warning that we didn't have. Yet they are doing 500 000 tests per week. What are we doing by comparison?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/uk-must-learn-from-german-response-to-covid-19-says-whitty
"More than three weeks ago NHS England announced it would scale up testing capacity to 10,000 a day, but the number of people tested has struggled to pass 8,000 a day"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/05/coronavirus-testing-uk-how-many-done/
So there you have it. Aiming for 10 000 a day (70 000/week) while another country does 500 000 per week.
Don't fix that problem. Just attack the people who point it out.
You specifically called into question the lack of PPE, lack of tests, NHS coping & Ventilator fiasco.
I addressed 3 of those issues and you said you have nothing further to say whilst saying I know everything and you nothing, I never once said that so if you assumed it that's your problem.
Allow me to now address the 4th thing you've called into question. Lack of tests.
What good would testing more people do? We have no vaccine. All it would do is make of mortality rate look better on paper
It will also serve the purpose of identifing key workers that are spreading the virus or key workers that can work because thay just have a bit of flu.
And while it is true that there is a global shortage of PPE, reagents, and ventilators, it is also true that other countries don't have the same issues that UK is experiencing. Buying those things is difficult for everyone in the middle of the crisis. This is the reason why other countries planned ahead.
People shouldnt be working if they have a bit of flu though!
This is why people die of the flu even after being vaccinated because sick people go outside while contagious.
Differentiating between different contagious pathogens doesnt mean oh you got flu you can go to work if you go covid 19 you stay home. You should stay home with the flu! especially if you work with people vulnerable like in a hospital. People who have had surgeries and other illnesses means the body is in a weakened state its recovering and putting every effort into doing so, it doesnt need something else to put a strain on the body. MRSA is a killer for that very reason! People can be walking round with it and be fine till your body is compromised then it wreaks havoc. Just as with any additional pathogen on the body. This is why everyone is tested prior to surgery for MRSA as they dont want you to be overcome by the bacteria that at the time has been relatively harmless to you till your body is compromised.
So if youre contagious stay home!! Employers should be supporting this than risking exposing every member of staff and public to contagions no matter the business
Someone who gets it.
If you show any symptoms at all then stay home whether you're a key worker or not.
And don't come with the asymptomatic argument because that can be said for any virus.
And please stop calling yourself names as if I've said them. It really devalues your argument."Sorry I must apologise. My bad. Someone else who has been trolling me the whole day responded to a comment I made. Thought it was you because the text is so long I couldn't see who had posted it. Not making excuses. I was wrong. I'm sorry | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. Why does that remind me of blackadder 4? I dont know, maybe you could elaborate. I dont know..the blind faith that they know what they are doing maybe? They have a plan?which plan is this?The one they changed their mind on? Minimize the deaths when they are increasing by The day? Go and have a look at the speech matt Hancock gave to parliament on The 22nd jan (it's on you tube) Porters wrapping bodies up in sheets as they ran out of body bags..NHS begging for equipment to save their lives...NHS staff being gagged for speaking to tthe press. You will have to excuse me for not sharing your opitimisn - I'm sure they know better than you or I on what needs to be done. - This plan hasn't changed - deaths rising slower than they would have means deaths are being minimised. - we are dealing with a unprecedented global crisis, it should not be a surprise that our health service is overwhelmed, the whole country/world is. You will have to excuse if I choose to see the bigger picture rather than share your ignorance. Do you really think that a government that is spending fortunes building new hospital wards in just weeks, subsidising virtually the whole country to stay at home and isolate and much, much more, are trying to save a few quid on masks and body bags or dont have the desire to provide them? I think it is incredibly ignorant and illogical to come to that conclusion. A gmnt that is spending fortunes?you realise nightingale was already built? I cant really add to that. I'm sure you are much more informed than the head of nursing. " The nhs nightingale was already built?! ! Are you sure lionel? It was only announced a few week ago, its build was documented all over the news and the internet with tradesman working around the clock to complete it and you have the nerve to dismiss it as already built! This just shows the ignorance and levels to which people will stoop to try and `win` an argument. There where still exhibitions there until very recently, infact on their website it shows an exhibition planned for the 15/16th of april but now postponed due to the excel centres conversion to nhs nightingale. "I can`t really add to that" Obviously, that is why you decide to avoid the facts in my post. Yes the government are spending fortunes, there is no denying it. But as it doesn't fit your agenda you try to sidestep it with the grace of an elephant in heels. (incidentally this seems to be a common theme in this thread, alongside throwing out bogus claims to try and deflect from being proven wrong with facts, note they never offer any facts or evidence to back up their nonsense) You like to ask for evidence Lionel, where is yours? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""What good would testing more people do? We have no vaccine. All it would do is make of mortality rate look better on paper" The way that other countries are fighting this virus is by separating the infected and the uninfected. Because we don't know who is infected and who isn't we are just trying to separate everyone from everyone else. The numbers show it isn't working. An obvious example is a care giver who becomes infected and then goes on to spread the infection to those who aren't infected. But perhaps you can pass your knowledge on to Matt Hancock... https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/massive-new-covid-19-testing-lab-milton-keynes-will-play-crucial-part-beating-coronavius-matt-hancock-announces-tonight-2535221 He's obviously as stupid as I am "The numbers are actually showing that it is working. It won't work immediately because of the delay between catching the virus, showing symptoms and the outcome, either death or recovery. That timeline can be upwards of 3 weeks. The problem with PPE is the transportation, it isn't getting where it's needed fast enough. This does seem like more of a political issue for you than a genuine concern about the virus. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""What good would testing more people do? We have no vaccine. All it would do is make of mortality rate look better on paper" The way that other countries are fighting this virus is by separating the infected and the uninfected. Because we don't know who is infected and who isn't we are just trying to separate everyone from everyone else. The numbers show it isn't working. An obvious example is a care giver who becomes infected and then goes on to spread the infection to those who aren't infected. But perhaps you can pass your knowledge on to Matt Hancock... https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/massive-new-covid-19-testing-lab-milton-keynes-will-play-crucial-part-beating-coronavius-matt-hancock-announces-tonight-2535221 He's obviously as stupid as I am
The numbers are actually showing that it is working. It won't work immediately because of the delay between catching the virus, showing symptoms and the outcome, either death or recovery. That timeline can be upwards of 3 weeks.
The problem with PPE is the transportation, it isn't getting where it's needed fast enough.
This does seem like more of a political issue for you than a genuine concern about the virus.
"Not biting. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. Why does that remind me of blackadder 4? I dont know, maybe you could elaborate. I dont know..the blind faith that they know what they are doing maybe? They have a plan?which plan is this?The one they changed their mind on? Minimize the deaths when they are increasing by The day? Go and have a look at the speech matt Hancock gave to parliament on The 22nd jan (it's on you tube) Porters wrapping bodies up in sheets as they ran out of body bags..NHS begging for equipment to save their lives...NHS staff being gagged for speaking to tthe press. You will have to excuse me for not sharing your opitimisn - I'm sure they know better than you or I on what needs to be done. - This plan hasn't changed - deaths rising slower than they would have means deaths are being minimised. - we are dealing with a unprecedented global crisis, it should not be a surprise that our health service is overwhelmed, the whole country/world is. You will have to excuse if I choose to see the bigger picture rather than share your ignorance. Do you really think that a government that is spending fortunes building new hospital wards in just weeks, subsidising virtually the whole country to stay at home and isolate and much, much more, are trying to save a few quid on masks and body bags or dont have the desire to provide them? I think it is incredibly ignorant and illogical to come to that conclusion. A gmnt that is spending fortunes?you realise nightingale was already built? I cant really add to that. I'm sure you are much more informed than the head of nursing. The nhs nightingale was already built?! ! Are you sure lionel? It was only announced a few week ago, its build was documented all over the news and the internet with tradesman working around the clock to complete it and you have the nerve to dismiss it as already built! This just shows the ignorance and levels to which people will stoop to try and `win` an argument. There where still exhibitions there until very recently, infact on their website it shows an exhibition planned for the 15/16th of april but now postponed due to the excel centres conversion to nhs nightingale. "I can`t really add to that" Obviously, that is why you decide to avoid the facts in my post. Yes the government are spending fortunes, there is no denying it. But as it doesn't fit your agenda you try to sidestep it with the grace of an elephant in heels. (incidentally this seems to be a common theme in this thread, alongside throwing out bogus claims to try and deflect from being proven wrong with facts, note they never offer any facts or evidence to back up their nonsense) You like to ask for evidence Lionel, where is yours? " It was an exhibition centre Google it | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. Why does that remind me of blackadder 4? I dont know, maybe you could elaborate. I dont know..the blind faith that they know what they are doing maybe? They have a plan?which plan is this?The one they changed their mind on? Minimize the deaths when they are increasing by The day? Go and have a look at the speech matt Hancock gave to parliament on The 22nd jan (it's on you tube) Porters wrapping bodies up in sheets as they ran out of body bags..NHS begging for equipment to save their lives...NHS staff being gagged for speaking to tthe press. You will have to excuse me for not sharing your opitimisn - I'm sure they know better than you or I on what needs to be done. - This plan hasn't changed - deaths rising slower than they would have means deaths are being minimised. - we are dealing with a unprecedented global crisis, it should not be a surprise that our health service is overwhelmed, the whole country/world is. You will have to excuse if I choose to see the bigger picture rather than share your ignorance. Do you really think that a government that is spending fortunes building new hospital wards in just weeks, subsidising virtually the whole country to stay at home and isolate and much, much more, are trying to save a few quid on masks and body bags or dont have the desire to provide them? I think it is incredibly ignorant and illogical to come to that conclusion. A gmnt that is spending fortunes?you realise nightingale was already built? I cant really add to that. I'm sure you are much more informed than the head of nursing. The nhs nightingale was already built?! ! Are you sure lionel? It was only announced a few week ago, its build was documented all over the news and the internet with tradesman working around the clock to complete it and you have the nerve to dismiss it as already built! This just shows the ignorance and levels to which people will stoop to try and `win` an argument. There where still exhibitions there until very recently, infact on their website it shows an exhibition planned for the 15/16th of april but now postponed due to the excel centres conversion to nhs nightingale. "I can`t really add to that" Obviously, that is why you decide to avoid the facts in my post. Yes the government are spending fortunes, there is no denying it. But as it doesn't fit your agenda you try to sidestep it with the grace of an elephant in heels. (incidentally this seems to be a common theme in this thread, alongside throwing out bogus claims to try and deflect from being proven wrong with facts, note they never offer any facts or evidence to back up their nonsense) You like to ask for evidence Lionel, where is yours? It was an exhibition centre Google it" I'm sorry.you have just contradicted yourself in the same paragraph. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. Why does that remind me of blackadder 4? I dont know, maybe you could elaborate. I dont know..the blind faith that they know what they are doing maybe? They have a plan?which plan is this?The one they changed their mind on? Minimize the deaths when they are increasing by The day? Go and have a look at the speech matt Hancock gave to parliament on The 22nd jan (it's on you tube) Porters wrapping bodies up in sheets as they ran out of body bags..NHS begging for equipment to save their lives...NHS staff being gagged for speaking to tthe press. You will have to excuse me for not sharing your opitimisn - I'm sure they know better than you or I on what needs to be done. - This plan hasn't changed - deaths rising slower than they would have means deaths are being minimised. - we are dealing with a unprecedented global crisis, it should not be a surprise that our health service is overwhelmed, the whole country/world is. You will have to excuse if I choose to see the bigger picture rather than share your ignorance. Do you really think that a government that is spending fortunes building new hospital wards in just weeks, subsidising virtually the whole country to stay at home and isolate and much, much more, are trying to save a few quid on masks and body bags or dont have the desire to provide them? I think it is incredibly ignorant and illogical to come to that conclusion. A gmnt that is spending fortunes?you realise nightingale was already built? I cant really add to that. I'm sure you are much more informed than the head of nursing. The nhs nightingale was already built?! ! Are you sure lionel? It was only announced a few week ago, its build was documented all over the news and the internet with tradesman working around the clock to complete it and you have the nerve to dismiss it as already built! This just shows the ignorance and levels to which people will stoop to try and `win` an argument. There where still exhibitions there until very recently, infact on their website it shows an exhibition planned for the 15/16th of april but now postponed due to the excel centres conversion to nhs nightingale. "I can`t really add to that" Obviously, that is why you decide to avoid the facts in my post. Yes the government are spending fortunes, there is no denying it. But as it doesn't fit your agenda you try to sidestep it with the grace of an elephant in heels. (incidentally this seems to be a common theme in this thread, alongside throwing out bogus claims to try and deflect from being proven wrong with facts, note they never offer any facts or evidence to back up their nonsense) You like to ask for evidence Lionel, where is yours? It was an exhibition centre Google it" He just told you it was an exhibition centre. The building stood but that's it. Absolutely no part of it stood as a hospital, the hospital has been built within the exhibition centre | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. Why does that remind me of blackadder 4? I dont know, maybe you could elaborate. I dont know..the blind faith that they know what they are doing maybe? They have a plan?which plan is this?The one they changed their mind on? Minimize the deaths when they are increasing by The day? Go and have a look at the speech matt Hancock gave to parliament on The 22nd jan (it's on you tube) Porters wrapping bodies up in sheets as they ran out of body bags..NHS begging for equipment to save their lives...NHS staff being gagged for speaking to tthe press. You will have to excuse me for not sharing your opitimisn - I'm sure they know better than you or I on what needs to be done. - This plan hasn't changed - deaths rising slower than they would have means deaths are being minimised. - we are dealing with a unprecedented global crisis, it should not be a surprise that our health service is overwhelmed, the whole country/world is. You will have to excuse if I choose to see the bigger picture rather than share your ignorance. Do you really think that a government that is spending fortunes building new hospital wards in just weeks, subsidising virtually the whole country to stay at home and isolate and much, much more, are trying to save a few quid on masks and body bags or dont have the desire to provide them? I think it is incredibly ignorant and illogical to come to that conclusion. A gmnt that is spending fortunes?you realise nightingale was already built? I cant really add to that. I'm sure you are much more informed than the head of nursing. The nhs nightingale was already built?! ! Are you sure lionel? It was only announced a few week ago, its build was documented all over the news and the internet with tradesman working around the clock to complete it and you have the nerve to dismiss it as already built! This just shows the ignorance and levels to which people will stoop to try and `win` an argument. There where still exhibitions there until very recently, infact on their website it shows an exhibition planned for the 15/16th of april but now postponed due to the excel centres conversion to nhs nightingale. "I can`t really add to that" Obviously, that is why you decide to avoid the facts in my post. Yes the government are spending fortunes, there is no denying it. But as it doesn't fit your agenda you try to sidestep it with the grace of an elephant in heels. (incidentally this seems to be a common theme in this thread, alongside throwing out bogus claims to try and deflect from being proven wrong with facts, note they never offer any facts or evidence to back up their nonsense) You like to ask for evidence Lionel, where is yours? It was an exhibition centre Google it I'm sorry.you have just contradicted yourself in the same paragraph." Where does he contradict himself or is this your way of deflecting? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. Why does that remind me of blackadder 4? I dont know, maybe you could elaborate. I dont know..the blind faith that they know what they are doing maybe? They have a plan?which plan is this?The one they changed their mind on? Minimize the deaths when they are increasing by The day? Go and have a look at the speech matt Hancock gave to parliament on The 22nd jan (it's on you tube) Porters wrapping bodies up in sheets as they ran out of body bags..NHS begging for equipment to save their lives...NHS staff being gagged for speaking to tthe press. You will have to excuse me for not sharing your opitimisn - I'm sure they know better than you or I on what needs to be done. - This plan hasn't changed - deaths rising slower than they would have means deaths are being minimised. - we are dealing with a unprecedented global crisis, it should not be a surprise that our health service is overwhelmed, the whole country/world is. You will have to excuse if I choose to see the bigger picture rather than share your ignorance. Do you really think that a government that is spending fortunes building new hospital wards in just weeks, subsidising virtually the whole country to stay at home and isolate and much, much more, are trying to save a few quid on masks and body bags or dont have the desire to provide them? I think it is incredibly ignorant and illogical to come to that conclusion. A gmnt that is spending fortunes?you realise nightingale was already built? I cant really add to that. I'm sure you are much more informed than the head of nursing. The nhs nightingale was already built?! ! Are you sure lionel? It was only announced a few week ago, its build was documented all over the news and the internet with tradesman working around the clock to complete it and you have the nerve to dismiss it as already built! This just shows the ignorance and levels to which people will stoop to try and `win` an argument. There where still exhibitions there until very recently, infact on their website it shows an exhibition planned for the 15/16th of april but now postponed due to the excel centres conversion to nhs nightingale. "I can`t really add to that" Obviously, that is why you decide to avoid the facts in my post. Yes the government are spending fortunes, there is no denying it. But as it doesn't fit your agenda you try to sidestep it with the grace of an elephant in heels. (incidentally this seems to be a common theme in this thread, alongside throwing out bogus claims to try and deflect from being proven wrong with facts, note they never offer any facts or evidence to back up their nonsense) You like to ask for evidence Lionel, where is yours? It was an exhibition centre Google it He just told you it was an exhibition centre. The building stood but that's it. Absolutely no part of it stood as a hospital, the hospital has been built within the exhibition centre" Transforming an existing structure is not "building"a hospital. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. Why does that remind me of blackadder 4? I dont know, maybe you could elaborate. I dont know..the blind faith that they know what they are doing maybe? They have a plan?which plan is this?The one they changed their mind on? Minimize the deaths when they are increasing by The day? Go and have a look at the speech matt Hancock gave to parliament on The 22nd jan (it's on you tube) Porters wrapping bodies up in sheets as they ran out of body bags..NHS begging for equipment to save their lives...NHS staff being gagged for speaking to tthe press. You will have to excuse me for not sharing your opitimisn - I'm sure they know better than you or I on what needs to be done. - This plan hasn't changed - deaths rising slower than they would have means deaths are being minimised. - we are dealing with a unprecedented global crisis, it should not be a surprise that our health service is overwhelmed, the whole country/world is. You will have to excuse if I choose to see the bigger picture rather than share your ignorance. Do you really think that a government that is spending fortunes building new hospital wards in just weeks, subsidising virtually the whole country to stay at home and isolate and much, much more, are trying to save a few quid on masks and body bags or dont have the desire to provide them? I think it is incredibly ignorant and illogical to come to that conclusion. A gmnt that is spending fortunes?you realise nightingale was already built? I cant really add to that. I'm sure you are much more informed than the head of nursing. The nhs nightingale was already built?! ! Are you sure lionel? It was only announced a few week ago, its build was documented all over the news and the internet with tradesman working around the clock to complete it and you have the nerve to dismiss it as already built! This just shows the ignorance and levels to which people will stoop to try and `win` an argument. There where still exhibitions there until very recently, infact on their website it shows an exhibition planned for the 15/16th of april but now postponed due to the excel centres conversion to nhs nightingale. "I can`t really add to that" Obviously, that is why you decide to avoid the facts in my post. Yes the government are spending fortunes, there is no denying it. But as it doesn't fit your agenda you try to sidestep it with the grace of an elephant in heels. (incidentally this seems to be a common theme in this thread, alongside throwing out bogus claims to try and deflect from being proven wrong with facts, note they never offer any facts or evidence to back up their nonsense) You like to ask for evidence Lionel, where is yours? It was an exhibition centre Google it I'm sorry.you have just contradicted yourself in the same paragraph." What "bogus'claims? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus Without warning on Thursday 19 March, the Australian prime minister, Scott Morrison, announced: “Australia is closing its borders to all-non citizens”. The ban was effective from 9pm the next day. Australia, with a population of 25 million, has had just over 6,000 infections, and 50 deaths. New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, which closed its borders the day before Australia, has had 1,200 infections and so far only one death from Covid-19. Go figure... Much easier in countries with lower density populations, but and it's a huge but at some point they will need to rejoin the rest of the world and that will be very difficult unless there is an antibody test and they only let in those who have had it, but the bigger issue is what they do with their own citizens that travel, At the end of the day COVID-19 was fought with isolation not herd immunity. It hasn't been fought successfully yet. You don't know what the outcome will be. No but you can see the direction of the trend. They are at a low enough infection rate that if someone has symptoms it is possible to track down everyone they have into contact with and test them too. Possible when you have 29 cases (NZ) or 52 cases (AUS) per day. Not possible when you have 4344 new cases (UK) today. How does that help us? It tells us what to do when then next virus comes. Maybe we should deal with this one first. We are stamping out fires. We are at the mercy of the virus now. Hopefully we will start seeing the effects of lockdown from today onwards (two weeks into the lockdown)? From the moment the virus first crossed over into humans we were at it's mercy. Even if patient zero had not passed it onto anyone else the fact remains that this virus has mutated and can crossover. This means that there would just be another "patient zero" and therefore it is always a threat until we either create a vaccine, or become immune. And there will be more viruses. What if the next one is like H5N1 with a 60% mortality rate? Are we going to go for herd immunity then too? Firstly, other potential viruses have no significance on how we deal with this one. This one does not have a 60% mortality rate and is being dealt with accordingly. Should we lockdown the country, shut it down and let everyone starve at home for a virus that statistically is less dangerous than the potential consequences and suffering caused by the "cure" some people advocate for. That's a really fair and reasonable response and you have a good point. But that is only if the government had a plan in the first place and everything is going to that plan. It's completely different if the government doesn't have the organisational ability to manage pandemics. Because the shortage of PPE, ventilators, and tests tend to indicate the latter. Should the former be true then we were fine with a 10 000 death toll? In your opinion, they dont have a plan however in reality they do have one and are sticking to it. It is a plan to keep the country running and minimize the deaths as much as possible by keeping infection at a level we can cope with but without slowing it down to a level that will bankrupt our economy leaving us destitute and starving. Why does that remind me of blackadder 4? I dont know, maybe you could elaborate. I dont know..the blind faith that they know what they are doing maybe? They have a plan?which plan is this?The one they changed their mind on? Minimize the deaths when they are increasing by The day? Go and have a look at the speech matt Hancock gave to parliament on The 22nd jan (it's on you tube) Porters wrapping bodies up in sheets as they ran out of body bags..NHS begging for equipment to save their lives...NHS staff being gagged for speaking to tthe press. You will have to excuse me for not sharing your opitimisn - I'm sure they know better than you or I on what needs to be done. - This plan hasn't changed - deaths rising slower than they would have means deaths are being minimised. - we are dealing with a unprecedented global crisis, it should not be a surprise that our health service is overwhelmed, the whole country/world is. You will have to excuse if I choose to see the bigger picture rather than share your ignorance. Do you really think that a government that is spending fortunes building new hospital wards in just weeks, subsidising virtually the whole country to stay at home and isolate and much, much more, are trying to save a few quid on masks and body bags or dont have the desire to provide them? I think it is incredibly ignorant and illogical to come to that conclusion. A gmnt that is spending fortunes?you realise nightingale was already built? I cant really add to that. I'm sure you are much more informed than the head of nursing. The nhs nightingale was already built?! ! Are you sure lionel? It was only announced a few week ago, its build was documented all over the news and the internet with tradesman working around the clock to complete it and you have the nerve to dismiss it as already built! This just shows the ignorance and levels to which people will stoop to try and `win` an argument. There where still exhibitions there until very recently, infact on their website it shows an exhibition planned for the 15/16th of april but now postponed due to the excel centres conversion to nhs nightingale. "I can`t really add to that" Obviously, that is why you decide to avoid the facts in my post. Yes the government are spending fortunes, there is no denying it. But as it doesn't fit your agenda you try to sidestep it with the grace of an elephant in heels. (incidentally this seems to be a common theme in this thread, alongside throwing out bogus claims to try and deflect from being proven wrong with facts, note they never offer any facts or evidence to back up their nonsense) You like to ask for evidence Lionel, where is yours? It was an exhibition centre Google it He just told you it was an exhibition centre. The building stood but that's it. Absolutely no part of it stood as a hospital, the hospital has been built within the exhibition centre Transforming an existing structure is not "building"a hospital." Do you know how all of those screens etc go together? You build them. I used to build concert arenas and exhibitions. Inside the excel at times as it happens. These are 'built' inside empty halls. You're just being facetious. Which is what he said about you trying to 'win' | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
