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D/S and Submission
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By *ensual OP Man
over a year ago
Sutton |
I got a bit fed up with people saying D/S is mainly in the mind and getting vague answers.
So I asked 6 subs that I know the 4 questions below.
I always see D/S as ans individual dynamic so I was surprised that the answer to number 1 was near identical, all said words to the effect of - trust and empathy.
The other answers all varied.
Submissives feel free to give your views.
1.if D/S is more about the mind than than the physical elements, what to you are the important mental elements?
2 What is your understanding of submission and what acts and behaviours constitute submission?
3 What acts and behaviours of a dominant make you feel submissive or reinforces submission?
4 What acts and behaviours in your view make a person a dominant?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We are all shades on a scale between physical and mental. It's our opinion that we are all individual and there are no set rules. We are who we are and we like what we like. |
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"I got a bit fed up with people saying D/S is mainly in the mind and getting vague answers.
So I asked 6 subs that I know the 4 questions below.
I always see D/S as ans individual dynamic so I was surprised that the answer to number 1 was near identical, all said words to the effect of - trust and empathy.
The other answers all varied.
Submissives feel free to give your views.
1.if D/S is more about the mind than than the physical elements, what to you are the important mental elements?
2 What is your understanding of submission and what acts and behaviours constitute submission?
3 What acts and behaviours of a dominant make you feel submissive or reinforces submission?
4 What acts and behaviours in your view make a person a dominant?
"
Can’t understand why you are surprised with Trust and Empathy being top of the list! |
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By *ensual OP Man
over a year ago
Sutton |
"I got a bit fed up with people saying D/S is mainly in the mind and getting vague answers.
So I asked 6 subs that I know the 4 questions below.
I always see D/S as ans individual dynamic so I was surprised that the answer to number 1 was near identical, all said words to the effect of - trust and empathy.
The other answers all varied.
Submissives feel free to give your views.
1.if D/S is more about the mind than than the physical elements, what to you are the important mental elements?
2 What is your understanding of submission and what acts and behaviours constitute submission?
3 What acts and behaviours of a dominant make you feel submissive or reinforces submission?
4 What acts and behaviours in your view make a person a dominant?
Can’t understand why you are surprised with Trust and Empathy being top of the list!"
I have always seen trust and empathy as being critical. I just would not have described it as the mental element. |
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By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago
Up on them there hills |
"I got a bit fed up with people saying D/S is mainly in the mind and getting vague answers.
So I asked 6 subs that I know the 4 questions below.
I always see D/S as ans individual dynamic so I was surprised that the answer to number 1 was near identical, all said words to the effect of - trust and empathy.
The other answers all varied.
Submissives feel free to give your views.
1.if D/S is more about the mind than than the physical elements, what to you are the important mental elements?
2 What is your understanding of submission and what acts and behaviours constitute submission?
3 What acts and behaviours of a dominant make you feel submissive or reinforces submission?
4 What acts and behaviours in your view make a person a dominant?
Can’t understand why you are surprised with Trust and Empathy being top of the list!
I have always seen trust and empathy as being critical. I just would not have described it as the mental element."
Interesting, how would you frame it, |
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"I got a bit fed up with people saying D/S is mainly in the mind and getting vague answers.
So I asked 6 subs that I know the 4 questions below.
I always see D/S as ans individual dynamic so I was surprised that the answer to number 1 was near identical, all said words to the effect of - trust and empathy.
The other answers all varied.
Submissives feel free to give your views.
1.if D/S is more about the mind than than the physical elements, what to you are the important mental elements?
2 What is your understanding of submission and what acts and behaviours constitute submission?
3 What acts and behaviours of a dominant make you feel submissive or reinforces submission?
4 What acts and behaviours in your view make a person a dominant?
"
That is interesting. I would have expected trust and empathy to be a given.
Without trust you don't have anything and I don't think you can be a good Dom without empathy.
I guess thinking about it they are right though they should be top of the list I just assumed they would be there anyway.
Goes to show that for many maybe they're not. |
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By *ensual OP Man
over a year ago
Sutton |
"I got a bit fed up with people saying D/S is mainly in the mind and getting vague answers.
So I asked 6 subs that I know the 4 questions below.
I always see D/S as ans individual dynamic so I was surprised that the answer to number 1 was near identical, all said words to the effect of - trust and empathy.
The other answers all varied.
Submissives feel free to give your views.
1.if D/S is more about the mind than than the physical elements, what to you are the important mental elements?
2 What is your understanding of submission and what acts and behaviours constitute submission?
3 What acts and behaviours of a dominant make you feel submissive or reinforces submission?
4 What acts and behaviours in your view make a person a dominant?
Can’t understand why you are surprised with Trust and Empathy being top of the list!
I have always seen trust and empathy as being critical. I just would not have described it as the mental element.
Interesting, how would you frame it,"
I have always seen them as characteristics of the dominant i.e. the dominant is trustworthy and empathic.
But I understand that the characteristics of a dominant can create a frame of mind in the submissive.
This brings out the truth to the Des O'Connor joke about "Sincerity " that you see played out regularly in the scene. |
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By *ensual OP Man
over a year ago
Sutton |
"If it doesn't start in the mind and there isn't a connection, never mind trust and respect, then there isn't anything. All three things make the kink triangle."
"Connection" is another word I don't fully understand. In the rope scene connection is a buzz word, about creating "connection" in rope.
As someone who was out on the scene at one point and involved in pick up play, I am not sure whether connection and attraction are confused or are in the scene the same thing. |
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By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago
Up on them there hills |
"I got a bit fed up with people saying D/S is mainly in the mind and getting vague answers.
So I asked 6 subs that I know the 4 questions below.
I always see D/S as ans individual dynamic so I was surprised that the answer to number 1 was near identical, all said words to the effect of - trust and empathy.
The other answers all varied.
Submissives feel free to give your views.
1.if D/S is more about the mind than than the physical elements, what to you are the important mental elements?
2 What is your understanding of submission and what acts and behaviours constitute submission?
3 What acts and behaviours of a dominant make you feel submissive or reinforces submission?
4 What acts and behaviours in your view make a person a dominant?
Can’t understand why you are surprised with Trust and Empathy being top of the list!
I have always seen trust and empathy as being critical. I just would not have described it as the mental element.
Interesting, how would you frame it,
I have always seen them as characteristics of the dominant i.e. the dominant is trustworthy and empathic.
But I understand that the characteristics of a dominant can create a frame of mind in the submissive.
This brings out the truth to the Des O'Connor joke about "Sincerity " that you see played out regularly in the scene."
So non of that has to do with the mind? |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai / Nottingham |
I like the unique individual dynamics and don’t care much for categories or putting things and people in neat little boxes. A huge mistake is assuming how it worked before will work again on someone else. |
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By *ensual OP Man
over a year ago
Sutton |
"I got a bit fed up with people saying D/S is mainly in the mind and getting vague answers.
So I asked 6 subs that I know the 4 questions below.
I always see D/S as ans individual dynamic so I was surprised that the answer to number 1 was near identical, all said words to the effect of - trust and empathy.
The other answers all varied.
Submissives feel free to give your views.
1.if D/S is more about the mind than than the physical elements, what to you are the important mental elements?
2 What is your understanding of submission and what acts and behaviours constitute submission?
3 What acts and behaviours of a dominant make you feel submissive or reinforces submission?
4 What acts and behaviours in your view make a person a dominant?
Can’t understand why you are surprised with Trust and Empathy being top of the list!
I have always seen trust and empathy as being critical. I just would not have described it as the mental element.
Interesting, how would you frame it,
I have always seen them as characteristics of the dominant i.e. the dominant is trustworthy and empathic.
But I understand that the characteristics of a dominant can create a frame of mind in the submissive.
This brings out the truth to the Des O'Connor joke about "Sincerity " that you see played out regularly in the scene.
So non of that has to do with the mind?"
I understand that how dominant presents themselves and behaves can effect the mind of a sub. |
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By *ensual OP Man
over a year ago
Sutton |
"I like the unique individual dynamics and don’t care much for categories or putting things and people in neat little boxes. A huge mistake is assuming how it worked before will work again on someone else."
I would not disagree, but I think boxes can be used to explain things. |
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By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago
Up on them there hills |
"I like the unique individual dynamics and don’t care much for categories or putting things and people in neat little boxes. A huge mistake is assuming how it worked before will work again on someone else.
I would not disagree, but I think boxes can be used to explain things. "
I have to ask, how do they explain things?
Is it that they are a projection from your mind?
Or that a sensual paradigm have to be stable environments?
This isn’t a wind up, I am genuinely interested as you have a totally different perspective (as I see it) to me. |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai / Nottingham |
"I like the unique individual dynamics and don’t care much for categories or putting things and people in neat little boxes. A huge mistake is assuming how it worked before will work again on someone else.
I would not disagree, but I think boxes can be used to explain things. "
It never does though, people and relationships are too complex. You just end up with a bunch of assumptions and posts about real vs fake Doms etc |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No painter paints the same portrait for different people and all types of bdsm is the same. Different styles, different limits, different triggers etc. Communication to me is the most important thing. My soft limit can be someone else’s hard limit. The Rigger or Dominant has got to be acutely aware of their bunny or submissive. They could sub drop easily or take more than they are able to please. That’s why it’s communicate communicate ommunicate!! And then ..... aftercare x |
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By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago
Up on them there hills |
"No painter paints the same portrait for different people and all types of bdsm is the same. Different styles, different limits, different triggers etc. Communication to me is the most important thing. My soft limit can be someone else’s hard limit. The Rigger or Dominant has got to be acutely aware of their bunny or submissive. They could sub drop easily or take more than they are able to please. That’s why it’s communicate communicate ommunicate!! And then ..... aftercare x"
This lady is why I always say, “don’t ask a Dom, ask a sensually submissive lady”.
They know what they want, not what an assertive person projects on them. |
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"I like the unique individual dynamics and don’t care much for categories or putting things and people in neat little boxes. A huge mistake is assuming how it worked before will work again on someone else."
. Very very sensible comment. No two scenarios are ever the same no two play sessions the same ...
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"I like the unique individual dynamics and don’t care much for categories or putting things and people in neat little boxes. A huge mistake is assuming how it worked before will work again on someone else."
This  everyone these days seems to love a label. |
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Everyone is unique, you also have to think is the submissive male or female as this will also add to multiple answers.
Some submissives are into service, as in doing house work and being a maid.
Then there a the brats who play up and act things out.
What about the littles.
The D/s dynamic all depends on what each person is looking for.
It could be Daddy Dom a submissive looks for.
What I would say is that there has to be a mental connection, whereby the dominant and the submissive have trust as this is first and foremost one of the most important things needed.
So maybe you need to think about who you are asking the question to. |
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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
Of course DS is about the mind. The best vanilla sex engages the mind let alone adding kink. As for what is important, that varies depending on who I'm playing with, what is happening and what BDSM elements are being used.
Can I put my finger on what makes me submissive to someone? Nope. The last person that managed to get in head was on twitter... Not his looks, purely what he was writing.
So no for me connection isn't confused with attraction. |
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"I like the unique individual dynamics and don’t care much for categories or putting things and people in neat little boxes. A huge mistake is assuming how it worked before will work again on someone else.
I would not disagree, but I think boxes can be used to explain things. "
Boxes can give you an idea what might be contained , but it’s only when you unpack them you really know the content . Labels , and boxes and even lists of to do / like / dislike bother me , they’re only the start of a conversation for me . |
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By *ensual OP Man
over a year ago
Sutton |
"I like the unique individual dynamics and don’t care much for categories or putting things and people in neat little boxes. A huge mistake is assuming how it worked before will work again on someone else.
I would not disagree, but I think boxes can be used to explain things.
I have to ask, how do they explain things?
Is it that they are a projection from your mind?
Or that a sensual paradigm have to be stable environments?
This isn’t a wind up, I am genuinely interested as you have a totally different perspective (as I see it) to me."
I am always happy to explain myself if genuinely asked.
I would acknowledge the contribution of everyone especially as there are contributions from people whose views I respect.
I think I should preface my reply with a number of points.
I have always maintained kink relationships are individual and each dynamic is special. Also apart from the absence of abuse and the need for genuine consent I believe there is no true way to do D/S. I believe personality dictates role or roles and not the other way around. I am also passionate about education and safety.
There are two curious issues with modern BDSM. Firstly everyone uses terms differently and secondly people rarely explain themselves when they use a term.
So when someone says "you need to get into peoples minds" or it "starts with the mind". What does this mean broken down into concrete statements or defined actions?
When you consider those phrases you immediately run into the fact that everyone uses those terms differently. Therefore my mind says, talk to a number of submissives and see where they agree.
Then as a separate issue how do explain BDSM to people who don't understand it or with whom you are having a discussion. Then as many have said boxes and labels are a good starting point. Remembering that BDSM itself is a portmanteau phrase that has to be unpacked.
Tenderbites vivid painting example is correct but before you get to painting you have to understand about primary colours what each colour is. When you study painting or have an interest in colour or through life you realise colours can be refracted or primary colours can be mixed into different colours. But in everyday life we talk in relation the basic strong colours and later learn the colours within them.
So the use of boxes and labels are helpful because (in my view) there are people that are completely new to BDSM, or enter it with preconceived boxes and labels and you need to offer them different boxes and labels. Obviously this will depend on whether people want a deeper discussion.
At the beginning you keep things simple and let natural curiosity lead the way.
I hope that helps.
The contributions here are why, when people say you find more kink experience on the other site, I always say there are plenty of experienced people on Fab. |
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By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago
Up on them there hills |
"I like the unique individual dynamics and don’t care much for categories or putting things and people in neat little boxes. A huge mistake is assuming how it worked before will work again on someone else.
I would not disagree, but I think boxes can be used to explain things.
I have to ask, how do they explain things?
Is it that they are a projection from your mind?
Or that a sensual paradigm have to be stable environments?
This isn’t a wind up, I am genuinely interested as you have a totally different perspective (as I see it) to me.
I am always happy to explain myself if genuinely asked.
I would acknowledge the contribution of everyone especially as there are contributions from people whose views I respect.
I think I should preface my reply with a number of points.
I have always maintained kink relationships are individual and each dynamic is special. Also apart from the absence of abuse and the need for genuine consent I believe there is no true way to do D/S. I believe personality dictates role or roles and not the other way around. I am also passionate about education and safety.
There are two curious issues with modern BDSM. Firstly everyone uses terms differently and secondly people rarely explain themselves when they use a term.
So when someone says "you need to get into peoples minds" or it "starts with the mind". What does this mean broken down into concrete statements or defined actions?
When you consider those phrases you immediately run into the fact that everyone uses those terms differently. Therefore my mind says, talk to a number of submissives and see where they agree.
Then as a separate issue how do explain BDSM to people who don't understand it or with whom you are having a discussion. Then as many have said boxes and labels are a good starting point. Remembering that BDSM itself is a portmanteau phrase that has to be unpacked.
Tenderbites vivid painting example is correct but before you get to painting you have to understand about primary colours what each colour is. When you study painting or have an interest in colour or through life you realise colours can be refracted or primary colours can be mixed into different colours. But in everyday life we talk in relation the basic strong colours and later learn the colours within them.
So the use of boxes and labels are helpful because (in my view) there are people that are completely new to BDSM, or enter it with preconceived boxes and labels and you need to offer them different boxes and labels. Obviously this will depend on whether people want a deeper discussion.
At the beginning you keep things simple and let natural curiosity lead the way.
I hope that helps.
The contributions here are why, when people say you find more kink experience on the other site, I always say there are plenty of experienced people on Fab."
Totally love the nominalisation, you in politics.
Define me the structure of a D/s relationship in actual verbs and I will gladly define mine and perhaps you might see why I’m at a loss. |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai / Nottingham |
Some great points. I think rather than discussing what is true or real or is/isn’t bdsm or pointing people to books, it’s just good to discuss what we think/do without any judging , and ask for advice on specific areas. If it’s too abstract like - is bdsm in the mind or body first - it’s meaningless |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai / Nottingham |
"
So when someone says "you need to get into peoples minds" or it "starts with the mind". What does this mean broken down into concrete statements or defined actions?
"
To me you just need to know them well enough to start. Beyond that it’s very hard to describe, bodies must give off all kinds of signals and comms were not even aware of, sometimes you can literally communicate and wrestle someone, play with boundaries etc with just your eyes.
"
Then as a separate issue how do explain BDSM to people who don't understand it or with whom you are having a discussion."
In any detail, with great difficulty! Even trying to explain swinging is hard. I’d say some things have to be experienced to understand fully. The 4 letters give a very high level idea of the physical side but not the mental or emotional. I’d stop about there and offer a short demo 
"
Tenderbites vivid painting example is correct but before you get to painting you have to understand about primary colours what each colour is."
Not every great artist, salesperson or leader has had technical training. Somethings just come naturally. I personally struggle a bit to understand people who define themselves as switch or see D/s as role play. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Some great points. I think rather than discussing what is true or real or is/isn’t bdsm or pointing people to books, it’s just good to discuss what we think/do without any judging , and ask for advice on specific areas. If it’s too abstract like - is bdsm in the mind or body first - it’s meaningless "
Absolutely |
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By *ensual OP Man
over a year ago
Sutton |
"
So when someone says "you need to get into peoples minds" or it "starts with the mind". What does this mean broken down into concrete statements or defined actions?
1.To me you just need to know them well enough to start. Beyond that it’s very hard to describe, bodies must give off all kinds of signals and comms were not even aware of, sometimes you can literally communicate and wrestle someone, play with boundaries etc with just your eyes.
Then as a separate issue how do explain BDSM to people who don't understand it or with whom you are having a discussion.
2.In any detail, with great difficulty! Even trying to explain swinging is hard. I’d say some things have to be experienced to understand fully. The 4 letters give a very high level idea of the physical side but not the mental or emotional. I’d stop about there and offer a short demo
Tenderbites vivid painting example is correct but before you get to painting you have to understand about primary colours what each colour is.
3 Not every great artist, salesperson or leader has had technical training. Somethings just come naturally. I personally struggle a bit to understand people who define themselves as switch or see D/s as role play."
I think we are roughly on the same page, I dont think there right or wrong answers. But the basic rules being dont be an ass and treat people with respect.
My experience has been with people who are interested in the physical side of play. I have done a fair bit of pick up play and (although I have a process before I do any play and a longer one before embarking on a D/S relationship. But most people I have had a relationship have been interested in the physical side. Which is why I am interested in the mental element. I have numbered your replies and replied to them. Thank you for your thoughts.
1. A bit like swinging, you read quite a few comments about connection and the need for the mental element. But when I was seriously swinging and having given up on meeting people on Fab I went to clubs. The amount of people who were getting it on with no conversation or short conversation was surprising. But again as you said there may be subconscious psychological aspects at play. But you would hope when people talk about the need for the mental element as a requirement I just feel they should describe what they mean.
2. That is where I think boxes and labels are helpful. But at the end of the day how each person experiences BDSM is individual. Therefore it is difficult to tell people what they should feel mentally, apart from enjoyment in what they do (although I understand from other people at times submission can be a struggle).
3. I agree which is why I followed on with which is why ordinary life we describe the main colours and not all the ones I skilled painter would use.
I hate discussing BDSM fab it blocks words out of context. |
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By *ensual OP Man
over a year ago
Sutton |
"I like the unique individual dynamics and don’t care much for categories or putting things and people in neat little boxes. A huge mistake is assuming how it worked before will work again on someone else.
I would not disagree, but I think boxes can be used to explain things.
I have to ask, how do they explain things?
Is it that they are a projection from your mind?
Or that a sensual paradigm have to be stable environments?
This isn’t a wind up, I am genuinely interested as you have a totally different perspective (as I see it) to me.
I am always happy to explain myself if genuinely asked.
I would acknowledge the contribution of everyone especially as there are contributions from people whose views I respect.
I think I should preface my reply with a number of points.
I have always maintained kink relationships are individual and each dynamic is special. Also apart from the absence of abuse and the need for genuine consent I believe there is no true way to do D/S. I believe personality dictates role or roles and not the other way around. I am also passionate about education and safety.
There are two curious issues with modern BDSM. Firstly everyone uses terms differently and secondly people rarely explain themselves when they use a term.
So when someone says "you need to get into peoples minds" or it "starts with the mind". What does this mean broken down into concrete statements or defined actions?
When you consider those phrases you immediately run into the fact that everyone uses those terms differently. Therefore my mind says, talk to a number of submissives and see where they agree.
Then as a separate issue how do explain BDSM to people who don't understand it or with whom you are having a discussion. Then as many have said boxes and labels are a good starting point. Remembering that BDSM itself is a portmanteau phrase that has to be unpacked.
Tenderbites vivid painting example is correct but before you get to painting you have to understand about primary colours what each colour is. When you study painting or have an interest in colour or through life you realise colours can be refracted or primary colours can be mixed into different colours. But in everyday life we talk in relation the basic strong colours and later learn the colours within them.
So the use of boxes and labels are helpful because (in my view) there are people that are completely new to BDSM, or enter it with preconceived boxes and labels and you need to offer them different boxes and labels. Obviously this will depend on whether people want a deeper discussion.
At the beginning you keep things simple and let natural curiosity lead the way.
I hope that helps.
The contributions here are why, when people say you find more kink experience on the other site, I always say there are plenty of experienced people on Fab.
Totally love the nominalisation, you in politics.
Define me the structure of a D/s relationship in actual verbs and I will gladly define mine and perhaps you might see why I’m at a loss."
To be honest everyone's relationship is different.
But for me I would use: Care, support, cherish, control, cuddle, guide and (hopefully) love. |
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By *ensual OP Man
over a year ago
Sutton |
"Some great points. I think rather than discussing what is true or real or is/isn’t bdsm or pointing people to books, it’s just good to discuss what we think/do without any judging , and ask for advice on specific areas. If it’s too abstract like - is bdsm in the mind or body first - it’s meaningless "
I would agree but it is not always possible or there is not the time to have one to one discussions. When people have sent me a PM about a discussion I have always been happy to have a dialogue. But if people want to think about ideas in their own time, I am a fan of using other people's explanations whether in books or podcasts. Why reinvent the wheel? |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai / Nottingham |
Obviously experience and practice is always going to be more valuable that reading or talking about it but you need to be careful you don’t hurt people in the process of learning. So watching others you trust and respect might be good and this would tie in with being open to being taught and having good teachers/mentors.
Teachers / mentors in any area can be hard to find and you often have to be very proactive and creative. I’ve been lucky in that submissives have taught me so much about being dominant !
I also use this axiom, the best things are created twice - once in the mind , then in reality. It sineinetines goes against my spontaneous nature and might feel a little unauthentic but working out some of the subtle details in advance works for me and gives the other person confidence |
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