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independence white paper
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This is a decision which NO-ONE should take lightly | |||
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"To be perfectly honest i have been in the no camp since day 1 .....HOWEVER i am now firmly on the fence ....as the op stated ....if scotland doesnt really bring anything to the table apart from being a drain on the uk ....then WHY would westminster be against independence....i look forward to reading this white paper in full and hear what westminsters arguements are against
This is a decision which NO-ONE should take lightly "IS Westminster against independence? | |||
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"A big yes here too." Serious question. Leaving aside all the he said/she said promises and so on about the £, the Monarch and Dr Who, if, IF, it transpired Scotland didn't have access to the £ Sterling because the Bank of England wouldn't play lender of last resort to a foreign country, would you still say yes? RBS goes tits up - nobody to bail it out. | |||
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" 'The constitution unit at University College London raises an interesting prospect. It argues that, if the SNP wins and its white paper turns out to be a "false prospectus", there would be a "strong case" for holding a second referendum in 2016. Absolute nonsense! I'm not a fan of David Cameron either but I actually dislike him less than Salmond. That doesn't mean I like him!" Complete tosh. Firstly because this is a manifesto. It's the SNP's idea of what would happen if we get independence and IF they're voted into power. The independence vote is not a vote for the SNP and they are not the only ones who support the idea, however much Bitter Together and the media want us to think it is. Secondly because we would have no idea which aspirations would pan out by 2016. Not one country that has taken the independence has ever asked for it back. Does that not indicate that it has a 100% success rate for leaving this corrupt and morally bankrupt union? The point about liking David Cameron is a similie. It's like saying that and is aimed at all those folk who say that their sole reason for voting no is that they don't like Mr Salmond. Clearly your thoughts on the matter have more depth, but there are people out there who are deciding their vote on personality and the slurs if the unionist media. | |||
"A big yes here too. Serious question. Leaving aside all the he said/she said promises and so on about the £, the Monarch and Dr Who, if, IF, it transpired Scotland didn't have access to the £ Sterling because the Bank of England wouldn't play lender of last resort to a foreign country, would you still say yes? RBS goes tits up - nobody to bail it out." Banks went tits up in Iceland. Because they weren't in hock to The City and the bankers they are in a far better position than we are today. Their bankers were imprisoned, ours were rewarded. Besides, RBS is no longer a Scottish institution. It's a multi-national company and if it had to be bailed out we would not be liable for the entire amount. | |||
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"A big yes here too. Serious question. Leaving aside all the he said/she said promises and so on about the £, the Monarch and Dr Who, if, IF, it transpired Scotland didn't have access to the £ Sterling because the Bank of England wouldn't play lender of last resort to a foreign country, would you still say yes? RBS goes tits up - nobody to bail it out. Banks went tits up in Iceland. Because they weren't in hock to The City and the bankers they are in a far better position than we are today. Their bankers were imprisoned, ours were rewarded. Besides, RBS is no longer a Scottish institution. It's a multi-national company and if it had to be bailed out we would not be liable for the entire amount. " I think the good folks at Gogarburn would disagree. | |||
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"Anyone in the UK can get a free hard copy of the blueprint by emailing referendumwhitepaper@scotland.gsi.gov.uk or by phoning 0300 012 1809 Mine is on its way. . . " If we all order one (or more) we can bankrupt the SNP. | |||
"....... And finally does every one trust salmond to have enough money in the pot in the land of milk and honey to pay our pensions" He's already bought an airport so he can slink off into the night when it all goes tits up for Scotland. | |||
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"I still don't know how much of the UK debt we are taking with us but I feel we might turn into Greece overnight !!!!" I agree its a 'pluck a number from the air' but as a % of population in Scotland or GDP we would also be entitled to the assets by the same % or off set some of the assets we don't want to reduce the amount of debt we do take. . . Its not like Greece at all | |||
"I still don't know how much of the UK debt we are taking with us but I feel we might turn into Greece overnight !!!! I agree its a 'pluck a number from the air' but as a % of population in Scotland or GDP we would also be entitled to the assets by the same % or off set some of the assets we don't want to reduce the amount of debt we do take. . . Its not like Greece at all " People keep talking about 'entitled'. There's no such thing in this context. In the unlikely event of a yes vote, all that happens is that negotiations begin. People are only entitled to what they can secure at the negotiating table. | |||
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" 'The constitution unit at University College London raises an interesting prospect. It argues that, if the SNP wins and its white paper turns out to be a "false prospectus", there would be a "strong case" for holding a second referendum in 2016. Absolute nonsense! I'm not a fan of David Cameron either but I actually dislike him less than Salmond. That doesn't mean I like him! Complete tosh. Firstly because this is a manifesto. It's the SNP's idea of what would happen if we get independence and IF they're voted into power. The independence vote is not a vote for the SNP and they are not the only ones who support the idea, however much Bitter Together and the media want us to think it is. Secondly because we would have no idea which aspirations would pan out by 2016. Not one country that has taken the independence has ever asked for it back. Does that not indicate that it has a 100% success rate for leaving this corrupt and morally bankrupt union? The point about liking David Cameron is a similie. It's like saying that and is aimed at all those folk who say that their sole reason for voting no is that they don't like Mr Salmond. Clearly your thoughts on the matter have more depth, but there are people out there who are deciding their vote on personality and the slurs if the unionist media. " So, according to you, we're supposed to vote yes or no based on a few vague ideas of what MIGHT happen or what the SNP wold LIKE to happen? That being the case, whats the point in them producing this document? Why don't they make a whole load of promises that they'd like to happen, most of which won't have much basis in reality. Oh, hang on, they have! Seriously, 30-40 hours of free childcare per week for children of age 3 and 4? Is that collectively??? Where the hell is the money going to come from for that? Way to go to get the families on board though! Why not just extend it to all kids under primary age so we can get the whole country back to work if this is only an IDEA of what the SNP would like to happen? Clearly you're a 'yes' man, the abundance of which seems to be whats allowed Salmond and Sturgeon to come up with these ideas. | |||
" ...... Seriously, 30-40 hours of free childcare per week for children of age 3 and 4? Is that collectively??? Where the hell is the money going to come from for that? Way to go to get the families on board though! Why not just extend it to all kids under primary age so we can get the whole country back to work if this is only an IDEA of what the SNP would like to happen? ......" The SNP could do this today if they chose. What they can't explain is where the money will come from or where the jobs for these newly liberated mothers will come from. Jam tomorrow, as usual. | |||
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"PS ... and who is paying for the white paper to be published? Who is paying for the vote and all the publicity that goes with it? Who is paying for the all the legal arguments to be heard is the courts throughout Europe?... Yip US , you and me... the tax payer... Why not use all this money by investing it in our nation and make us a proud people ... NOT broken and penniless." | |||
"PS ... and who is paying for the white paper to be published? Who is paying for the vote and all the publicity that goes with it? Who is paying for the all the legal arguments to be heard is the courts throughout Europe?... Yip US , you and me... the tax payer... Why not use all this money by investing it in our nation and make us a proud people ... NOT broken and penniless. "^^^^^^^^^re my last post^^^^^^ | |||
"Anyone seen a good bullet point version yet? 670 pages of assumptions seems like torture to read "670 pages and no prices attached. | |||
"YES.. well put that man..no political party in England giveS a shit about Scotland.especially Tory weasel cunt fannys...they haven't a clue what its like to live like the rest of us and 98% dont even have to pay bills off their way over inflated wages and is just put down on their expenses .i dont like Alex salmond either but no way will he or his party make things worse than they are for the normal person with average wage than David Cameron and his gang of posh.never had their hands dirty in their life ars holes..and any person on an average wage that thinks the Tories are doin the best they can for Us me and you should go move to England and strengthen the Tory rule in England.. x X X We are already a 3rd world nation under Government that doesn't really give a shit about what happens north if the border. What happens when we no longer pay our tax to Westminster and are then given back less than a third as our budget for the year. If we can survive and prosper on the pittance we receive from our Pro Rata share of our own taxes the. How do we do when we cut Westminster out of the equation Everyone is asking where will the money come from, We the taxpayer pay into the annual UK treasury. What is then distributed pro Rata to each of the four nations that make the Union. Scotland receives less than a third of what we pay in. Cancelling this out and keeping the existing rate of taxation in Scotland will give us a far better lifestyle than we have at present. Also remember this is not about Alex Salmond or the SNP this is about SCOTLAND and the future of our country I for one do not wish to be a pensioner living under English Tory rule. This has happened before, for those who remember 1978-79 when we had an Independence vote only for the Tories to pull the rug away after Scotland voted YES. They knew then as they know now England cannot exist at its current level without Scottish tax Look at the GDP and economic figures of all 4 nations and then look at the Union. Scotland is the only one that does not have a deficit every year. Take our tax away and we will rise as a strong small independent nation. Ireland will then unite and break away completely and England will pull Wales down with them " | |||
"YES.. well put that man..no political party in England giveS a shit about Scotland.especially Tory weasel cunt fannys...they haven't a clue what its like to live like the rest of us and 98% dont even have to pay bills off their way over inflated wages and is just put down on their expenses .i dont like Alex salmond either but no way will he or his party make things worse than they are for the normal person with average wage than David Cameron and his gang of posh.never had their hands dirty in their life ars holes..and any person on an average wage that thinks the Tories are doin the best they can for Us me and you should go move to England and strengthen the Tory rule in England.. x X X We are already a 3rd world nation under Government that doesn't really give a shit about what happens north if the border. What happens when we no longer pay our tax to Westminster and are then given back less than a third as our budget for the year. If we can survive and prosper on the pittance we receive from our Pro Rata share of our own taxes the. How do we do when we cut Westminster out of the equation Everyone is asking where will the money come from, We the taxpayer pay into the annual UK treasury. What is then distributed pro Rata to each of the four nations that make the Union. Scotland receives less than a third of what we pay in. Cancelling this out and keeping the existing rate of taxation in Scotland will give us a far better lifestyle than we have at present. Also remember this is not about Alex Salmond or the SNP this is about SCOTLAND and the future of our country I for one do not wish to be a pensioner living under English Tory rule. This has happened before, for those who remember 1978-79 when we had an Independence vote only for the Tories to pull the rug away after Scotland voted YES. They knew then as they know now England cannot exist at its current level without Scottish tax Look at the GDP and economic figures of all 4 nations and then look at the Union. Scotland is the only one that does not have a deficit every year. Take our tax away and we will rise as a strong small independent nation. Ireland will then unite and break away completely and England will pull Wales down with them " | |||
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"i just hope you understand.. sometimes the clothes.. do not make the man.. I'll hold on to hope of ... FREEDOM !! may not be what you want from me.. just the way its got to be... you've gotta give for what you take.... FREEDOM FREEDOM.you've gotta give for what you take... x x X...by GeorDi Michael...(famous Scottish scholar) "George michael! Its all greek to me  | |||
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"This isnt just a scottish affair this directly affects the whole of the uk therefore Cameron Must get involved "That's one viewpoint. Others might think he should butt out and let Scots decide for ourselves. | |||
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"We ......... The people of Scotland decide whether we go Independent or not. By ALLOWING this referendum to happen, David Cameron has spoken on the behalf of the Union . One or two of today's "English" based papers printed Salmonds dream is dead. Pure speculation and scaremongering by English hacks who haven't read the paper and listened solely to Alistair Darlings blinkered account. The same Darling that Jihn Swinney has already ripped apart. Scotland can go alone and YES WE DO HAVE THE FINANCES ALREADY IN PLACE to do it without future North Sea revenue which in its self is unstable. We already lead the rest of Europe on sustainability with wind and wave farms. As quoted before many nations smaller and less well off than ours have voted for independence and have not looked back. The UK Government will try an all out smear campaign now to destroy Salmond because they know they are in trouble if Scotland breaks away. That is why they are not telling their own people the true story." See? This is what's wrong with this so-called debate. Why you run out of facts, you substitute block caps. All that's missing is the assertation FACT! at the end of the sentences. | |||
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".............. Give the general public hard facts and figures and they fall asleep. That's a fact. It's not what they want to know and to be fair, unless it's historical facts (financially), no government on the planet can give you hard facts. .................. " That's where Salmond's downfall lies. He's claiming his positions on Sterling/ interest rates, NATO, EU membership etc as being matters of fact. It's not. It can't be. It's no more than Salmond's unsubstantiated claim. That's lying to the people of Scotland. | |||
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"Don't think he has said 'fact' anywhere at all, re sterling he's said it's in the rUKs interest to remain with a common currency, which it is, given it's trading position with Scotland. Interest rates, I'll loosely give you, no one can predict them. Agian though, it's in the rUKs interest to keep any interest low between BoE and Scotland in the event of Indy for the same reason as above. EU, well, rUK trying to get out anyway, so flawed argument really. If we stay in the Uk we won't be in Europe for much longer if Cameron has his way. That separatist argument is acceptable however?" No, he's not saying 'fact', he's saying 'common sense says ' or 'its obvious' when neither is true. He says we'll get all the good stuff and none of the bad. 24x7 good weather all year round and so on. The most astonishing thing is that people believe his nonsense. | |||
"people don't seem to realise that, like it or not, being out of the EU creates massive restrictions in trading. Spain has already said they wouldn't want an independent scotland in the EU. Others have said here that King Eck hasn't ever said his statements are fact...WRONG and his side kick sturgeon is just as bad. His pal Mr Swinney has also stated that oil revenues are very volatile and thats where King Eck thinks his revenue will come from, they cant even agree on their own policies. FACT is SNP are full of assumptions and nothing else." Read Spanish Pm's quote again and come back to us. He is happy with a 'negotiated independent scotland', his words not mine. Frankly, don't give a shite what Spain, Wales or anywhere else think about what WE want for Scotland. If the shoe was on the other foot (Spain and Gib for example) it would be, and is likewise. Show me a Salmond quote where he states the above as Fact please? | |||
"people don't seem to realise that, like it or not, being out of the EU creates massive restrictions in trading. Spain has already said they wouldn't want an independent scotland in the EU. Others have said here that King Eck hasn't ever said his statements are fact...WRONG and his side kick sturgeon is just as bad. His pal Mr Swinney has also stated that oil revenues are very volatile and thats where King Eck thinks his revenue will come from, they cant even agree on their own policies. FACT is SNP are full of assumptions and nothing else. Read Spanish Pm's quote again and come back to us. He is happy with a 'negotiated independent scotland', his words not mine. Frankly, don't give a shite what Spain, Wales or anywhere else think about what WE want for Scotland. If the shoe was on the other foot (Spain and Gib for example) it would be, and is likewise. Show me a Salmond quote where he states the above as Fact please? " The key word is 'negotiated'. Not automatic. Not guarantee. Negotiated. | |||
"Don't think he has said 'fact' anywhere at all, re sterling he's said it's in the rUKs interest to remain with a common currency, which it is, given it's trading position with Scotland. Interest rates, I'll loosely give you, no one can predict them. Agian though, it's in the rUKs interest to keep any interest low between BoE and Scotland in the event of Indy for the same reason as above. EU, well, rUK trying to get out anyway, so flawed argument really. If we stay in the Uk we won't be in Europe for much longer if Cameron has his way. That separatist argument is acceptable however? No, he's not saying 'fact', he's saying 'common sense says ' or 'its obvious' when neither is true. He says we'll get all the good stuff and none of the bad. 24x7 good weather all year round and so on. The most astonishing thing is that people believe his nonsense." Again, no he hasn't, unless you've read the mainstream Uk press. Everyone in Yes accepts this is a huge change, challenging and that nothing is a given - BUT that the benefits out weigh the risks. Media tells the majority of Labour monkeys otherwise and they all take it as gospel. (Used to vote labour btw) You just essentially wrote all that in Caps. | |||
"people don't seem to realise that, like it or not, being out of the EU creates massive restrictions in trading. Spain has already said they wouldn't want an independent scotland in the EU. Others have said here that King Eck hasn't ever said his statements are fact...WRONG and his side kick sturgeon is just as bad. His pal Mr Swinney has also stated that oil revenues are very volatile and thats where King Eck thinks his revenue will come from, they cant even agree on their own policies. FACT is SNP are full of assumptions and nothing else. Read Spanish Pm's quote again and come back to us. He is happy with a 'negotiated independent scotland', his words not mine. Frankly, don't give a shite what Spain, Wales or anywhere else think about what WE want for Scotland. If the shoe was on the other foot (Spain and Gib for example) it would be, and is likewise. Show me a Salmond quote where he states the above as Fact please? The key word is 'negotiated'. Not automatic. Not guarantee. Negotiated." Again, no one has said guaranteed - other than the press. Laws have been looked at that suggest it is a given but even that, no side can give a definitive. | |||
"...... Read Spanish Pm's quote again and come back to us. He is happy with a 'negotiated independent scotland', his words not mine. Frankly, don't give a shite what Spain, Wales or anywhere else think about what WE want for Scotland. If the shoe was on the other foot (Spain and Gib for example) it would be, and is likewise. Show me a Salmond quote where he states the above as Fact please? The key word is 'negotiated'. Not automatic. Not guarantee. Negotiated. Again, no one has said guaranteed - other than the press. Laws have been looked at that suggest it is a given but even that, no side can give a definitive." EU law suggests otherwise. Indeed, the letter Eck was waving around this lunchtime goes on to say so. He didn't read that bit out. Those who will actually decide, like the Spanish PM don't agree it'll be alright on the night. The Spanish PM has a vote. Eck doesn't. Anyway, it's all academic. Even the Separatists know they've lost. | |||
"..... Anyway, it's all academic. Even the Separatists know they've lost. " Typical Ian Smart style Bitter T comeback. How many people do you know who were Yes and switched? None I'd wager. They're shifting the other way faster than you can wave King Eck's white paper and I've not met an undecided who has gone to the Dark side either. It ain't over til... I've certainly got the 19th sept off
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"..... Anyway, it's all academic. Even the Separatists know they've lost. Typical Ian Smart style Bitter T comeback. How many people do you know who were Yes and switched? None I'd wager. They're shifting the other way faster than you can wave King Eck's white paper and I've not met an undecided who has gone to the Dark side either. It ain't over til... I've certainly got the 19th sept off
"You'll be able to go and wave Eck and co off at Prestwick Airport - bought especially for that purpose. | |||
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"I've become a british citizen less than 2 years ago and lived in Scotland for 5 years. I'd like to add to this debate from an outsider point of view. where I come from, a nation who gave the most expensive price for independance. 1.5 million ppl died in a 7 year unbalanced war. As economically and socially we might not be in a better place today than if we stayed under the rule of France but if there was a referendum asking the nation to become French again and part of France knowing that they will have a better fair lives. I can assure you the results would be something like 99% YES FOR INDEPENDANCE and fuck being ruled by the bastards. If you want your pride you have to earn it and be ready to pay the price for it and make the next generation proud of it. Its that pride and the love for your country and identity and the dignity of being independant that will determine its future. From a basic point of view Scotland has much potential with fairly small population and good rate of educated people ect ... it can stand on its own and it cant be worse tgan it is under the rule of few oppoetunists. Scotland is a country that fought for its independance centurries ago. Today when you have the chance to decide its fate not by taking arms and giving your lives as a sacrifice as William wallace and others has done but only by having the balls to take the risck of facing the unknown future, taking a pen and ticking YES in a sheet of paper. I dont think u'll be giving too much back for your country. Sorry for the poor English. Ax" And that folks says all you need , big yes from here. Yet again a forum full of negatives, same peeps with usual negativity, | |||
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" Yet again a forum full of negatives, same peeps with usual negativity, "When there is no positive case for remaining in the Union presented it's all you will get. I'm away to get a book from Big Eck's Prestwick WH Smiths to ride out the storm.
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" Yet again a forum full of negatives, same peeps with usual negativity,
When there is no positive case for remaining in the Union presented it's all you will get.
I'm away to get a book from Big Eck's Prestwick WH Smiths to ride out the storm.
"Soon to be renamed WH McSmiths, in line with Tartan Tory propaganda. | |||
" Yet again a forum full of negatives, same peeps with usual negativity,
When there is no positive case for remaining in the Union presented it's all you will get.
I'm away to get a book from Big Eck's Prestwick WH Smiths to ride out the storm.
Soon to be renamed WH McSmiths, in line with Tartan Tory propaganda."you make no sense | |||
"A truth which you don't like is called negativity. A truth which you do like is called positivity. The truth is still the truth." Sooner Bitter get a grasp on that the more informed the Scottish Electorate will be then. Mibbes. | |||
" you make no sense" Never does, just like Ian Smart and a whole host of other Onioin trolls. No coherent, constructive argument. Ever. People need to seriously get off their arses and research. If they have a question, go find out about it from multiple sources rather than taking the tabloid tat as gospel, as is more often the case. Watch debates. Like last night, like Michael Moore - watch them get there arses kicked time after time as they have nothing to give. Like flapping fish out of water. | |||
" you make no sense Never does, just like Ian Smart and a whole host of other Onioin trolls. No coherent, constructive argument. Ever. People need to seriously get off their arses and research. If they have a question, go find out about it from multiple sources rather than taking the tabloid tat as gospel, as is more often the case. Watch debates. Like last night, like Michael Moore - watch them get there arses kicked time after time as they have nothing to give. Like flapping fish out of water. " I just tell people the truth. Some of them don't like it, cos it doesn't suit their blinkered vision of the world, but it's the truth none the less. I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO. | |||
" you make no sense Never does, just like Ian Smart and a whole host of other Onioin trolls. No coherent, constructive argument. Ever. People need to seriously get off their arses and research. If they have a question, go find out about it from multiple sources rather than taking the tabloid tat as gospel, as is more often the case. Watch debates. Like last night, like Michael Moore - watch them get there arses kicked time after time as they have nothing to give. Like flapping fish out of water. I just tell people the truth. Some of them don't like it, cos it doesn't suit their blinkered vision of the world, but it's the truth none the less. I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO." u talk sum crap _nny,u mentioned in an earlier post about Alex salmond not reading what was written at the bottom of a letter because he didnt want us to know what it says,so how do u know what was on that letter ? And mind tell the truth | |||
"..... I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO. u talk sum crap _nny,u mentioned in an earlier post about Alex salmond not reading what was written at the bottom of a letter because he didnt want us to know what it says,so how do u know what was on that letter ? And mind tell the truth " The recipient, J Lind, secretary of Aberdeen SNP has acknowledged the letter was sent to him. There's a copy on the BBC news website. Some will insist that means it must be fake. Some insist the earth is flat. | |||
"..... I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO. u talk sum crap _nny,u mentioned in an earlier post about Alex salmond not reading what was written at the bottom of a letter because he didnt want us to know what it says,so how do u know what was on that letter ? And mind tell the truth The recipient, J Lind, secretary of Aberdeen SNP has acknowledged the letter was sent to him. There's a copy on the BBC news website. Some will insist that means it must be fake. Some insist the earth is flat." oh it must be true if its on BBC website then lol,u still Havent said what was written in the letter cant be arsed looking at website would rather here it from u as u always tell the truth lol | |||
"..... I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO. u talk sum crap _nny,u mentioned in an earlier post about Alex salmond not reading what was written at the bottom of a letter because he didnt want us to know what it says,so how do u know what was on that letter ? And mind tell the truth The recipient, J Lind, secretary of Aberdeen SNP has acknowledged the letter was sent to him. There's a copy on the BBC news website. Some will insist that means it must be fake. Some insist the earth is flat. oh it must be true if its on BBC website then lol,u still Havent said what was written in the letter cant be arsed looking at website would rather here it from u as u always tell the truth lol" | |||
"..... I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO. u talk sum crap _nny,u mentioned in an earlier post about Alex salmond not reading what was written at the bottom of a letter because he didnt want us to know what it says,so how do u know what was on that letter ? And mind tell the truth The recipient, J Lind, secretary of Aberdeen SNP has acknowledged the letter was sent to him. There's a copy on the BBC news website. Some will insist that means it must be fake. Some insist the earth is flat. oh it must be true if its on BBC website then lol,u still Havent said what was written in the letter cant be arsed looking at website would rather here it from u as u always tell the truth lol" What they both said. The BBC, that font of unbiased media. Why would anyone ever doubt its content. | |||
"..... I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO. u talk sum crap _nny,u mentioned in an earlier post about Alex salmond not reading what was written at the bottom of a letter because he didnt want us to know what it says,so how do u know what was on that letter ? And mind tell the truth The recipient, J Lind, secretary of Aberdeen SNP has acknowledged the letter was sent to him. There's a copy on the BBC news website. Some will insist that means it must be fake. Some insist the earth is flat. oh it must be true if its on BBC website then lol,u still Havent said what was written in the letter cant be arsed looking at website would rather here it from u as u always tell the truth lol What they both said. The BBC, that font of unbiased media. Why would anyone ever doubt its content. " As you said (above). Do your research. Check out multiple sources. | |||
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"There's a lot that has to be sorted out. As the original post said it's like conjoined twins. What happens to charity donations that are national charities? Do they stop their support for Scotland and then we only have our own charities. Professional registrations for nurses, doctors, dentists, and any other profession that has a governing body - how will they be affected? Passports, driving licences, tax office, benefits, etc how will they be administered? Will we have to administrate and fund our own offices? There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned." Most charity donations specify which countries they serve. rSPCc for example do eng and wales. sSPCC Scotland. NHS already out domain. So no change. Passports, once your UK one runs out you get a Scottish one. Dvla etc will be the same, once a Scottish government is established etc (obvious I'm just wishing this and it's all faerie stories yada yada). I'm no expert but I'm sure there will be a crossover. Can't, to be fair, be any more incompetent than the current system. | |||
"...... There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned." They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep. | |||
"...... There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned. They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep." surely that applies to all politicians _nny. Or is it only if your a sepratist. | |||
"...... There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned. They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep. surely that applies to all politicians _nny. Or is it only if your a sepratist." Falcon's question was re the aftermath of separation. Since the Separatists cant answer basic questions about the currency etc, why should anyone take them seriously on anything? | |||
"...... There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned. They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep. surely that applies to all politicians _nny. Or is it only if your a sepratist. Falcon's question was re the aftermath of separation. Since the Separatists cant answer basic questions about the currency etc, why should anyone take them seriously on anything?" that wasnt my question, does that make you a seperatist seeing as you seem unable to answer me
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"...... There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned. They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep. surely that applies to all politicians _nny. Or is it only if your a sepratist. Falcon's question was re the aftermath of separation. Since the Separatists cant answer basic questions about the currency etc, why should anyone take them seriously on anything? that wasnt my question, does that make you a seperatist seeing as you seem unable to answer me
"I know there are no definitive answers. I don't pretend there are definitive answers. Eck's the one trying to pull the wool over people's eyes. | |||
"...... There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned. They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep. surely that applies to all politicians _nny. Or is it only if your a sepratist. Falcon's question was re the aftermath of separation. Since the Separatists cant answer basic questions about the currency etc, why should anyone take them seriously on anything?" Given the 'non seperatists' refusal to engage until the deed is done its pretty fucking difficult would you not agree? (Slaps Heid wi a mash hammer) The 'seperatists' have given constructive proposals at every turn. We get from 'No' is 'naw ye cannae'. No substance, nothing constructive. Well, just plain nothing to be fair. Anyhoo, am pished, away from home and my fucking gorgeous wife and gagging on the elusive good looking Bi male meet, so richt noo, better (me an us the gither) things to be cracking off, sorry, on with. Sept 19th will be a gid day. | |||
"...... Anyhoo, am pished, .........." I'd never have guessed. | |||
"...... There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned. They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep. surely that applies to all politicians _nny. Or is it only if your a sepratist. Falcon's question was re the aftermath of separation. Since the Separatists cant answer basic questions about the currency etc, why should anyone take them seriously on anything? that wasnt my question, does that make you a seperatist seeing as you seem unable to answer me
I know there are no definitive answers. I don't pretend there are definitive answers.
Eck's the one trying to pull the wool over people's eyes."Onny, i saw a post you put on another thread about people who become entrenched in their thinking and i agree with you on that subject. Dont you think that the same should apply here ? You seem to have this entrenched position where you dig at nationalist politicians but are unwilling to aknowledge that the other side are just the same. Do you honestly think that alistair darling and his no campaign team are giving straight forward answers to the questions put to them ? The truth is they have all been feeding us misinformation in order to try and convince us to back their side. | |||
"...... Anyhoo, am pished, .......... I'd never have guessed." Again Sir. Astounding comeback in the absence of, well, anything constructive to be fair. See you in the morning and I can be Sturgeon, you can be Carmichael or Moore again. It's a good game. Love a wee bit of role play. | |||
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"A truth which you don't like is called negativity. A truth which you do like is called positivity. The truth is still the truth." Lol bit contradictory to an earlier post, Mmmm o yes it went like this , A truth is neither positive nor negative just a truth lol, Anyways peeps, the vote is about the opportunity to be independent , irrespective of the mundane pish surrounding it, it about the scottish people voicing their opinion to be ruled by themselves, There is no fact to the question that if we vote for it that we shall get it , also it doesnt matter about alec salmond, if we were to get independence , where does it say he will be leading the scottish govt, everything surrounding the vote is based on opinion, no one can guarantee either the positives nor the negatives of going it alone, but atleast we have been given the opportunity to voice our opinions in regards to being led by an english govt. lets take it and see what happens . FREEDOM lol | |||
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"Now theres a turn up for the books....the no campaign say ..NO WAY scotland can stay in the pound ...... yet ....The Bank Of England are already in talks with the scottish gov and can see no problem with it happening and would welcome it IF Scotland vote yes "That's the kind of made up nonsense which the Separatists love. Anyone who listens to what Carney actually said “I have not had any discussions with members of the Scottish Government. My predecessor did have some basic discussions with Mr Salmond. I certainly welcome the opportunity to have those discussions.” knows differently. Nothing about 'no problem with it happening' or 'would welcome it IF Scotland vote yes'. The original video is on the Bank of England and the BBC websites, although I suppose some will thinks they've been doctored too. | |||
".............. That's where Salmond's downfall lies. He's claiming his positions on Sterling/ interest rates, NATO, EU membership etc as being matters of fact. It's not. It can't be. It's no more than Salmond's unsubstantiated claim. That's lying to the people of Scotland." Well, not any more than the Unionist position is. Stating one's perception of a position and backing it up with strong argument is not lying, it's what politics is all about. And particularly on both the Currency and EU issue the UK government are the ones withholding facts from Scotland. EU has said they won't comment on the position until the UK government, as the present incumbent of power in these islands, asks them to. They refuse to do so. They could be clear on the currency Union but again refuse to do so. 
As far as the lies spread about EU membership read this: http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/8403-the-rajoy-intervention-and-why-the-traditional-media-cannot-now-be-trusted
Oh, and yet again, voting Yes is NOT a vote for Alex Salmond, the SNP or any one kind of future. It's about having government by and for the people governed or government pandering to the South of England, the banks & the multi-nationals. Stick with the corrupt, class-ridden morally bankrupt status-quo or try to forge a new future and take our own path. | |||
".............. That's where Salmond's downfall lies. He's claiming his positions on Sterling/ interest rates, NATO, EU membership etc as being matters of fact. It's not. It can't be. It's no more than Salmond's unsubstantiated claim. That's lying to the people of Scotland. Well, not any more than the Unionist position is. Stating one's perception of a position and backing it up with strong argument is not lying, it's what politics is all about. ............" Telling people 'this' will happen or 'that' will happen when the truth (remember truth?) is this or that 'might' happen? Promising what you can't guarantee to deliver is lying. | |||
"...... Since the Separatists cant answer basic questions about the currency etc, why should anyone take them seriously on anything?" This thread starts with a link to an excellent page answering all the questions the Unionists keep saying aren't being answered. 
It's the same tactic the Tories employed in the miners' strike that Spitting Image so brilliantly lampooned. Kinnock stands up in parliament, condemns the violence. Thatcher Stands up and says, "Yes that's all very well, but why does the Honourable gentlemen not condemn this despicable violence?" Repeat for 5 minutes, which was basically what they did then and many people believed that the Labour Party refused to condemn the violence on the picket lines. (Of course, now we're getting to hear how it was agitated and provoked by the police under government orders, but hey ho!). Same thing now. Better Together and the media just keep saying there are no facts which is only true when they're talking about things that no one can say for certain. Where there are facts they just don't report them. | |||
".............. Promising what you can't guarantee to deliver is lying." Yes campaign have not promised any of these things. They have stated them as their position on these matters and when told it won't happen have refuted the outright lies spouted by Bitter Together as to why they are impossible. No one has ever, at any time, said we guarantee this, especially as it will be up to the people of Scotland to decide if they even want to follow any of these ideas after independence. | |||
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".............. Promising what you can't guarantee to deliver is lying. Yes campaign have not promised any of these things. They have stated them as their position on these matters and when told it won't happen have refuted the outright lies spouted by Bitter Together as to why they are impossible. No one has ever, at any time, said we guarantee this, especially as it will be up to the people of Scotland to decide if they even want to follow any of these ideas after independence." | |||
"For those looking for answers: http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/4341-a-unionist-lexicon-an-a-z-of-unionist-scare-stories-myths-and-misinformation" Newsnet Scotland is an SNP owned and run website. It's their equivalent of Pravda and Izvestia. | |||
".............. Promising what you can't guarantee to deliver is lying. Yes campaign have not promised any of these things. They have stated them as their position on these matters and when told it won't happen have refuted the outright lies spouted by Bitter Together as to why they are impossible. No one has ever, at any time, said we guarantee this, especially as it will be up to the people of Scotland to decide if they even want to follow any of these ideas after independence." So, you accept the Yes campaigners CAN'T guarantee to keep the £ Sterling, EU membership, NATO membership and so on? | |||
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