FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Do or die Brexit
Do or die Brexit
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Why the death of the country? Brexit death is the best choice."
A more constructive definition, but not BoJo's intent.
We already know that Hard Brexit would start the process of the UK disintegrating.
Would supporting this would be treachery? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why the death of the country? Brexit death is the best choice.
A more constructive definition, but not BoJo's intent.
We already know that Hard Brexit would start the process of the UK disintegrating.
Would supporting this would be treachery?"
We don't "know" that, you are speculating. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Why the death of the country? Brexit death is the best choice.
A more constructive definition, but not BoJo's intent.
We already know that Hard Brexit would start the process of the UK disintegrating.
Would supporting this would be treachery?"
It might be treachery to the Union... It might be a bless for Scotland too: They will finally be independent... Likely Wales and NI will follow... Scotland and NI likely joining the EU, also Wales... England will become little England, with London as the main business spot... The EU likely winning three new members or even four, if England has no other choice but to join the EU to remain competitive Vs Wales, Scotland and NI... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why the death of the country? Brexit death is the best choice.
A more constructive definition, but not BoJo's intent.
We already know that Hard Brexit would start the process of the UK disintegrating.
Would supporting this would be treachery?
It might be treachery to the Union... It might be a bless for Scotland too: They will finally be independent... Likely Wales and NI will follow... Scotland and NI likely joining the EU, also Wales... England will become little England, with London as the main business spot... The EU likely winning three new members or even four, if England has no other choice but to join the EU to remain competitive Vs Wales, Scotland and NI... "
Laughable, NI, Wales and Scotland all get their money from Westminster and are not financially stable without, therefore they aren't eligible to join the EU. Brexit really has brought to light how little people know about politics. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anbrCouple
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"Why the death of the country? Brexit death is the best choice.
A more constructive definition, but not BoJo's intent.
We already know that Hard Brexit would start the process of the UK disintegrating.
Would supporting this would be treachery?
It might be treachery to the Union... It might be a bless for Scotland too: They will finally be independent... Likely Wales and NI will follow... Scotland and NI likely joining the EU, also Wales... England will become little England, with London as the main business spot... The EU likely winning three new members or even four, if England has no other choice but to join the EU to remain competitive Vs Wales, Scotland and NI...
Laughable, NI, Wales and Scotland all get their money from Westminster and are not financially stable without, therefore they aren't eligible to join the EU. Brexit really has brought to light how little people know about politics. "
So, if you are so knowledgeable, how did you miss the fact that all oil and fishing rights are Scottish? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why the death of the country? Brexit death is the best choice.
A more constructive definition, but not BoJo's intent.
We already know that Hard Brexit would start the process of the UK disintegrating.
Would supporting this would be treachery?
It might be treachery to the Union... It might be a bless for Scotland too: They will finally be independent... Likely Wales and NI will follow... Scotland and NI likely joining the EU, also Wales... England will become little England, with London as the main business spot... The EU likely winning three new members or even four, if England has no other choice but to join the EU to remain competitive Vs Wales, Scotland and NI...
Laughable, NI, Wales and Scotland all get their money from Westminster and are not financially stable without, therefore they aren't eligible to join the EU. Brexit really has brought to light how little people know about politics.
So, if you are so knowledgeable, how did you miss the fact that all oil and fishing rights are Scottish? "
Haha let's see what kind of deal we give you for leaving... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Why the death of the country? Brexit death is the best choice.
A more constructive definition, but not BoJo's intent.
We already know that Hard Brexit would start the process of the UK disintegrating.
Would supporting this would be treachery?
It might be treachery to the Union... It might be a bless for Scotland too: They will finally be independent... Likely Wales and NI will follow... Scotland and NI likely joining the EU, also Wales... England will become little England, with London as the main business spot... The EU likely winning three new members or even four, if England has no other choice but to join the EU to remain competitive Vs Wales, Scotland and NI...
Laughable, NI, Wales and Scotland all get their money from Westminster and are not financially stable without, therefore they aren't eligible to join the EU. Brexit really has brought to light how little people know about politics.
So, if you are so knowledgeable, how did you miss the fact that all oil and fishing rights are Scottish? "
Seeing as Scotland is not an independent country, but part of the United kingdom, are you 100% sure that the oil and fishing rights are 100% Scottish owned? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No need, these are recognised globally as Scottish, so how do we need to be "given back" what is already ours? "
Laws will be rewritten if necessary you're old enough to know this, why would a larger, richer nation allow any other smaller, poorer nation to walk away with the resources? The short answer is they wouldn't, politicians won't let a.silly little thong like the law get in the way of a good financial acquisition. Scotland can't afford independence, end of, if they could shake us off they would have done it sometime in the last millennia. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Why the death of the country? Brexit death is the best choice.
A more constructive definition, but not BoJo's intent.
We already know that Hard Brexit would start the process of the UK disintegrating.
Would supporting this would be treachery?
It might be treachery to the Union... It might be a bless for Scotland too: They will finally be independent... Likely Wales and NI will follow... Scotland and NI likely joining the EU, also Wales... England will become little England, with London as the main business spot... The EU likely winning three new members or even four, if England has no other choice but to join the EU to remain competitive Vs Wales, Scotland and NI...
Laughable, NI, Wales and Scotland all get their money from Westminster and are not financially stable without, therefore they aren't eligible to join the EU. Brexit really has brought to light how little people know about politics.
So, if you are so knowledgeable, how did you miss the fact that all oil and fishing rights are Scottish?
Seeing as Scotland is not an independent country, but part of the United kingdom, are you 100% sure that the oil and fishing rights are 100% Scottish owned?"
England own about 9% of oil rights, if I remember right. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Why the death of the country? Brexit death is the best choice.
A more constructive definition, but not BoJo's intent.
We already know that Hard Brexit would start the process of the UK disintegrating.
Would supporting this would be treachery?
It might be treachery to the Union... It might be a bless for Scotland too: They will finally be independent... Likely Wales and NI will follow... Scotland and NI likely joining the EU, also Wales... England will become little England, with London as the main business spot... The EU likely winning three new members or even four, if England has no other choice but to join the EU to remain competitive Vs Wales, Scotland and NI...
Laughable, NI, Wales and Scotland all get their money from Westminster and are not financially stable without, therefore they aren't eligible to join the EU. Brexit really has brought to light how little people know about politics.
So, if you are so knowledgeable, how did you miss the fact that all oil and fishing rights are Scottish?
Seeing as Scotland is not an independent country, but part of the United kingdom, are you 100% sure that the oil and fishing rights are 100% Scottish owned?
England own about 9% of oil rights, if I remember right. "
What about the United kingdom? If Scotland left, the UK would still exist, it just wouldn't include Scotland. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"9% is a small price to pay to be rid of the breathtaking arrogance demonstrated by our English neighbours.
So, it would leave you to ride rough shod over Wales and N. I. "
And yet, you still embrace Barnett. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No, the Barnett formula could go - we'd be oil rich! We could aspire to be like Norway! "
Doesn't the North Sea Oil cash flow require oil prices to be over $100 a barrel to actually make decent money? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why the death of the country? Brexit death is the best choice.
A more constructive definition, but not BoJo's intent.
We already know that Hard Brexit would start the process of the UK disintegrating.
Would supporting this would be treachery?
It might be treachery to the Union... It might be a bless for Scotland too: They will finally be independent... Likely Wales and NI will follow... Scotland and NI likely joining the EU, also Wales... England will become little England, with London as the main business spot... The EU likely winning three new members or even four, if England has no other choice but to join the EU to remain competitive Vs Wales, Scotland and NI...
Laughable, NI, Wales and Scotland all get their money from Westminster and are not financially stable without, therefore they aren't eligible to join the EU. Brexit really has brought to light how little people know about politics. "
Not true, they receive alot of funding from the eu, eus regional policy has played an important part in promoting economic and social development in northern ireland  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
BBC News - UK's new oil find: How big is it?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32229794
Here's an interesting story from a while back. Notice references only to the UK, not just England. Im doubting ownership of north sea oil being Scottish. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Laughable, NI, Wales and Scotland all get their money from Westminster and are not financially stable without, therefore they aren't eligible to join the EU. Brexit really has brought to light how little people know about politics. "
NI can get into the EU with one vote, and the EU said if it is a vote to repatriate with Ireland then joining will be automatic, and nothing on earth can stop it.
The EU also said that blocking Wales, Scotland, NI or even Gibraltar, joining as independent countries would be very unlikely.
However the EU will not negotiate with Wales, Scotland, NI, or Gibraltar and didn't even want to answer the question. The reality of leaving the UK for scotland will be one where they will have to vote to leave the UK, vote to go it on their own, the UK to accept this, and then maybe the EU will talk to them again. Maybe the EU will want them to rejoin, but 100% as soon as brexit is done then Scotland vanishes off the map for the EU.
All the EU will see is "The UK", and all talking will be done through London, with no one else.
Has Scotland got the political will to navigate through that, leaving the UK with no promise the EU will even talk to them? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/10-facts-about-scotlands-oil-and-independence/"
So you're referencing a pro-Scottish source for your 'facts' on Scottish independence... The reason it hasn't already happened is that it would totally devastate the Scottish economy, there's already no jobs and no property value and you want to bite the hand that feeds you too? Odd. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Laughable, NI, Wales and Scotland all get their money from Westminster and are not financially stable without, therefore they aren't eligible to join the EU. Brexit really has brought to light how little people know about politics.
NI can get into the EU with one vote, and the EU said if it is a vote to repatriate with Ireland then joining will be automatic, and nothing on earth can stop it.
The EU also said that blocking Wales, Scotland, NI or even Gibraltar, joining as independent countries would be very unlikely.
However the EU will not negotiate with Wales, Scotland, NI, or Gibraltar and didn't even want to answer the question. The reality of leaving the UK for scotland will be one where they will have to vote to leave the UK, vote to go it on their own, the UK to accept this, and then maybe the EU will talk to them again. Maybe the EU will want them to rejoin, but 100% as soon as brexit is done then Scotland vanishes off the map for the EU.
All the EU will see is "The UK", and all talking will be done through London, with no one else.
Has Scotland got the political will to navigate through that, leaving the UK with no promise the EU will even talk to them?"
EU law won't apply after Brexit, therefore any vote on NI doesn't have to be honoured or recognised by Westminster at all unless they wish to do so. Don't forget it's UK troops stationed there, it's come to force before and will again of the EU refuse to recognise the sovereignty of the UK. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"No, the Barnett formula could go - we'd be oil rich! We could aspire to be like Norway!
Doesn't the North Sea Oil cash flow require oil prices to be over $100 a barrel to actually make decent money? "
Alex Salmond had oil being $120 a barrel in the last indy ref.
I'd like to know if Scottish people think that they can be economically viable on the future of a fossil fuel? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"The vast majority of their funding comes from Westminster."
Lol
All public spending comes from London and HM Treasury.
It is collected on a UK-wide basis, albeit at varying tax rates, and distributed from London.
The figure you are looking for was published quite recently - the deficit of Scotland's public finances.
Whereas the UK as a whole is running at a deficit of just under 2 % - the difference between how much it raises and how much it spends - Scotland's deficit is about 6 per cent of GDP.
That is, Scotland spends six per cent more than it raises.
The criteria for joining the € and the EU is a deficit no greater than 3 per cent of GDP.
Scotland's deficit would not preclude EU approval of membership but it would delay conversion to the € until the deficit fell within the stability criteria.
The question for the SNP is what currency Scotland would use in the meantime.
Whatever, Scotland would need to grow its revenue base or reduce public spending to operate a stable budget.
In terms of assets, offshore oil and gas may now be a liability rather than an asset, since the UK granted tax relief to oil companies for decommissioning costs.
Scotland's biggest asset probably is Faslane and Coulport and the revenue it could earn by leasing it to rUK and/or NATO. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"If scotland was to get independence and leave the uk. Whats to stop the uk government moving the nuclear subs somewhere else . Ie milford haven then no rent to pay and a huge loss to scotland "
It would take you 10-20 years to build the necessary infrastructure at a cost of many, many billions of £s.
When the USSR collapsed, Russia was not in a position to retrieve all the nuclear warheads located in its former Soviets.
So it agreed to lease the existing facilities until it built up it's own infrastructure.
This is similar.
There is only one storage facility and handling system for WMD in the UK and it is located on the Clyde.
Your local self-storage warehouse doesn't really cut it as an alternative. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"If scotland was to get independence and leave the uk. Whats to stop the uk government moving the nuclear subs somewhere else . Ie milford haven then no rent to pay and a huge loss to scotland "
The UK's nuclear subs will be based in the USA, should any independent Scottish government close Faslane. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The simplest way to understand the enormity of this undertaking is to break down the UK nuclear deterrent into three parts.
First, there are 4 nuclear submarines. The launch vehicles. (The other seven are also based in Scotland now).
Secondly, there are the Trident missiles supplied by Lockhead Martin. These are incredibly hazardous of themselves.
Thirdly, there are the warheads that sit atop them.
You need separate storage and maintenance facilities for all three different components.
Only one submarine is ever at sea at a time, so we are talking circa 150 missiles and warheads on land.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"If scotland was to get independence and leave the uk. Whats to stop the uk government moving the nuclear subs somewhere else . Ie milford haven then no rent to pay and a huge loss to scotland
The UK's nuclear subs will be based in the USA, should any independent Scottish government close Faslane. "
Either way, the leasing costs will be huge. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
What i was trying to say was neither Scotland Wales or N.Ireland could afford to leave the UK and join the Eu independantly. Also if they were to join would they take the Euro as their currency of try to keep the pound.
Can t see the EU allowing that |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
It is a condition of membership that new members sign up in principle to join the €.
However, new members must meet the criteria of the fiscal stability pact, not least the rule about deficits no greater than 3% of GDP.
It would be some years, decades perhaps, before these countries were ready to join the €.
So they would be accepted into the EU but sit out with the € until their economies came into line with the fiscal stability rules. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
It would take some time for Scotland, Wales and NI to bring their budgets into line with the € criteria, yes.
Keep in mind, too, that if their GDP at the time of joining the EU is below 75% of the EU average, they become eligible for European Regional Development Fund and other types of assistance. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
So would that mean we d get back more of the money we paid into the EU or break even as we d still have to contribute millions for other good causes within the EU
That shopping centre they ve built must cost a fortune to stock maintain and provide security for and also the monthly commute by train for all the EU staff and their files to travel from one venue to another
Or is all this malicious leave hype and fake news |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"So would that mean we d get back more of the money we paid into the EU or break even as we d still have to contribute millions for other good causes within the EU
That shopping centre they ve built must cost a fortune to stock maintain and provide security for and also the monthly commute by train for all the EU staff and their files to travel from one venue to another
Or is all this malicious leave hype and fake news "
Not just trains mate hundreds of hire cars and lorries too,so much for green policies. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The simplest way to understand the enormity of this undertaking is to break down the UK nuclear deterrent into three parts.
First, there are 4 nuclear submarines. The launch vehicles. (The other seven are also based in Scotland now).
Secondly, there are the Trident missiles supplied by Lockhead Martin. These are incredibly hazardous of themselves.
Thirdly, there are the warheads that sit atop them.
You need separate storage and maintenance facilities for all three different components.
Only one submarine is ever at sea at a time, so we are talking circa 150 missiles and warheads on land.
"
You talk absolute shit. Pure nonsense. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
But the thing is "yes" did win !
So all the remainers need to finally accept the fact that we were asked to vote and the vote was "out"
no matter if you vote conservative labour libdem brexit or monster raving Looney the public voted ""OUT"
Just as they voted "in" in the 70's
So really all those "public"servants including the MPs need to make it happen and act on the publics instructions
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But the thing is "yes" did win !
So all the remainers need to finally accept the fact that we were asked to vote and the vote was "out"
no matter if you vote conservative labour libdem brexit or monster raving Looney the public voted ""OUT"
Just as they voted "in" in the 70's
So really all those "public"servants including the MPs need to make it happen and act on the publics instructions
"
It was 3 years ago and it was advisory , that vote is now irrelevant, time for a new referendum |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"But the thing is "yes" did win !
So all the remainers need to finally accept the fact that we were asked to vote and the vote was "out"
no matter if you vote conservative labour libdem brexit or monster raving Looney the public voted ""OUT"
Just as they voted "in" in the 70's
So really all those "public"servants including the MPs need to make it happen and act on the publics instructions
It was 3 years ago and it was advisory , that vote is now irrelevant, time for a new referendum "
Does that mean that if we do have a general election and the we dont agree anytime after the vote that we can also ask for another vote.
Right or wrong the public knew what it was voting for. For those we claim we didn t then shame on you. We are not the un educated masses that some think and are more than capable of forming our own opinions.
And before the backlash i voted out on the provision of getting a deal but also to be able to take back our rights for form our own opinions and not be told how to by some faceless cartel in brussels. That i have no say over |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"But the thing is "yes" did win !
So all the remainers need to finally accept the fact that we were asked to vote and the vote was "out"
no matter if you vote conservative labour libdem brexit or monster raving Looney the public voted ""OUT"
Just as they voted "in" in the 70's
So really all those "public"servants including the MPs need to make it happen and act on the publics instructions
"
It is not the "duty" of MPs to blindly support a policy let alone a vague statement.
Democracy is not the election of a dictatorship. It's a complex issue with many options. Parliament reflects the wider population in this respect. As it should. Many of those opposed to a hard Brexit votes for a deal to leave.
"The country" did not decide to leave.
A decision was made by a small margin. There was no definition of "leave" and a hard Brexit was never even discussed as feasible.
Democracy relies on compromise and consensus.
That step was missed after the referendum, so here we are. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"One option is death.
If you support the death of our country then you are a traitor, right?
Oh Lordy, another twisted remainiac!
Try to keep things rational, please! "
I haven't claimed that I would "rather die in a ditch" over anything.
It's the language that Boger used and escalated in Parliament last night.
Alright for him then?
It's a perfectly valid question though. If you are prepared to sacrifice the existence of United Kingdom to achieve one goal then that is treason surely? Do you have another definition? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But the thing is "yes" did win !
So all the remainers need to finally accept the fact that we were asked to vote and the vote was "out"
no matter if you vote conservative labour libdem brexit or monster raving Looney the public voted ""OUT"
Just as they voted "in" in the 70's
So really all those "public"servants including the MPs need to make it happen and act on the publics instructions
It was 3 years ago and it was advisory , that vote is now irrelevant, time for a new referendum
Does that mean that if we do have a general election and the we dont agree anytime after the vote that we can also ask for another vote.
Right or wrong the public knew what it was voting for. For those we claim we didn t then shame on you. We are not the un educated masses that some think and are more than capable of forming our own opinions.
And before the backlash i voted out on the provision of getting a deal but also to be able to take back our rights for form our own opinions and not be told how to by some faceless cartel in brussels. That i have no say over "
No, a GE won’t solve Brexit, the MPs won’t allow a no deal and Boris won’t get a deal? So, what is your solution?? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"But the thing is "yes" did win !
So all the remainers need to finally accept the fact that we were asked to vote and the vote was "out"
no matter if you vote conservative labour libdem brexit or monster raving Looney the public voted ""OUT"
Just as they voted "in" in the 70's
So really all those "public"servants including the MPs need to make it happen and act on the publics instructions
It was 3 years ago and it was advisory , that vote is now irrelevant, time for a new referendum
Does that mean that if we do have a general election and the we dont agree anytime after the vote that we can also ask for another vote.
Right or wrong the public knew what it was voting for. For those we claim we didn t then shame on you. We are not the un educated masses that some think and are more than capable of forming our own opinions.
And before the backlash i voted out on the provision of getting a deal but also to be able to take back our rights for form our own opinions and not be told how to by some faceless cartel in brussels. That i have no say over "
Please state where a no deal Brexit was campaigned for and explained during the referendum?
Could you also indicate how much of the Leave campaigns post-Brwxit plan has been followed?
You have a say over what happens in Brussels via our government in the Council of Ministers and your directly elected MEPs. If you choose to vote for UKIP or Brexit party then you have no voice there. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It doesn't matter if it's your own MP or an MEP they don't take any notice of what the people say as long as nothing rocks there gravy boat alls good, they are all liars who's main concern is themselves! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It doesn't matter if it's your own MP or an MEP they don't take any notice of what the people say as long as nothing rocks there gravy boat alls good, they are all liars who's main concern is themselves!"
What is the solution then? My local MP is a Brexiter yet the majority of his constituents voted remain?  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Yes, our own politicians have really put the Eurocrats in the shade these last three years.
None of their chaos, incompetence and in-fighting for plucky old Blighty, eh?
Rule Britannia and tally-ho, chaps! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It doesn't matter if it's your own MP or an MEP they don't take any notice of what the people say as long as nothing rocks there gravy boat alls good, they are all liars who's main concern is themselves!
What is the solution then? My local MP is a Brexiter yet the majority of his constituents voted remain? "
I think an MP should do what they think is best for their constituency / country. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It doesn't matter if it's your own MP or an MEP they don't take any notice of what the people say as long as nothing rocks there gravy boat alls good, they are all liars who's main concern is themselves!
What is the solution then? My local MP is a Brexiter yet the majority of his constituents voted remain?
I think an MP should do what they think is best for their constituency / country. "
I agree, hence a new legally binding referendum, the old one is defunct |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
What a legally binding referendum! here in the UK!
And what happens if leave wins again. Would it be changed to and advisory referendum again and not legally binding until the result suits certain people
"best of 3 hey!"
We could be going round in circles for years if that happens which again would suit some people.
Also i don t think a new government would have any more luck . There is a certain clique of people who would love us to become part of a United State of Europe rulled by Brussels as long as they could keep their cushy jobs and status.
Maybe time for a rethink on the previous forum comment and do away with parliament altogether maybe just look out for number 1 and sod others or go back to regional local government. At least when we had lords of the manor we " knew our place!"
We the uneducated masses and free thinking people should never have been given the vote. Poilititions are only out to increase their own bank balance and standing in their own little world |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I do think that if there was to be a second ref it would be binding because there is now much more understanding of what it actually means not like the first one.
But leavers will never accept another one because as they keep in saying they won end of!
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Better still let’s just give leavers one half of the country and remainers the other.I suggest south of Birmingham is in the EU.The rest of the country is out of it...
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I do think that if there was to be a second ref it would be binding because there is now much more understanding of what it actually means not like the first one.
But leavers will never accept another one because as they keep in saying they won end of!
"
I voted leave and would accept another result if we had a second vote because now I think it would be a bigger leave vote than the first |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Better still let’s just give leavers one half of the country and remainers the other.I suggest south of Birmingham is in the EU.The rest of the country is out of it...
"
bob we have spoke about this before you know I’d go for that stop teasing me if only eh lol |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Better still let’s just give leavers one half of the country and remainers the other.I suggest south of Birmingham is in the EU.The rest of the country is out of it...
bob we have spoke about this before you know I’d go for that stop teasing me if only eh lol"
I think the rest of the country would be up for it..Otherwise we could up in a civil war and I’m getting to old for that sort of bollocks.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Better still let’s just give leavers one half of the country and remainers the other.I suggest south of Birmingham is in the EU.The rest of the country is out of it...
"
dont think your scotish mates would be very happy |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I do think that if there was to be a second ref it would be binding because there is now much more understanding of what it actually means not like the first one.
But leavers will never accept another one because as they keep in saying they won end of!
I voted leave and would accept another result if we had a second vote because now I think it would be a bigger leave vote than the first "
Then let’s have a referendum?? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What a legally binding referendum! here in the UK!
And what happens if leave wins again. Would it be changed to and advisory referendum again and not legally binding until the result suits certain people
"best of 3 hey!"
We could be going round in circles for years if that happens which again would suit some people.
Also i don t think a new government would have any more luck . There is a certain clique of people who would love us to become part of a United State of Europe rulled by Brussels as long as they could keep their cushy jobs and status.
Maybe time for a rethink on the previous forum comment and do away with parliament altogether maybe just look out for number 1 and sod others or go back to regional local government. At least when we had lords of the manor we " knew our place!"
We the uneducated masses and free thinking people should never have been given the vote. Poilititions are only out to increase their own bank balance and standing in their own little world "
What is your solution then?? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Better still let’s just give leavers one half of the country and remainers the other.I suggest south of Birmingham is in the EU.The rest of the country is out of it...
bob we have spoke about this before you know I’d go for that stop teasing me if only eh lol
I think the rest of the country would be up for it..Otherwise we could up in a civil war and I’m getting to old for that sort of bollocks.. "
so am I fuck that lol bob u be begging to come up here in ten yrs time hen yr house is under water lol |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Better still let’s just give leavers one half of the country and remainers the other.I suggest south of Birmingham is in the EU.The rest of the country is out of it...
bob we have spoke about this before you know I’d go for that stop teasing me if only eh lol
I think the rest of the country would be up for it..Otherwise we could up in a civil war and I’m getting to old for that sort of bollocks.. so am I fuck that lol bob u be begging to come up here in ten yrs time hen yr house is under water lol "
Thanks for the offer but I have no intention of living here in 10 years time.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What is your solution then??"
In an ideal situation the squabbling parties should unite and send a group of representatives chosen by all to negotiate with the EU.but with one aim deliver the result of the referendum!
Basically tell the Eu what we want and then discuss the way forward. But while the discussions continue we should withhold our contributions to the EU. To aid a speedy agreement as the longer it took the less spending money the cartel would have and god forbid they might even have to spend their own money
But i reality tell the Eu what we want then argue amongst ourselves for the next few years untill there is no get out. And we end up hating our neighbours and even family members who disagree with either train of thought
I do think Cameron and the house's of parliament threw may under the train as she was in a no win situation. No matter what deal she came back with the opposition would find some way to postpone or block it as it wasn t their idea or suit their agenda |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I thought Wales had a higher referendum percentage for leave than remain.
According to the Times, English migrants swung the Welsh vote. Without them, Wales would be Remain."
So now we re blaming english migrants who came to live in wales for the welsh result. Dam those migrants.(sorry thought it was only reserved for ukip)
I was born and raised in wales so were my family and friends and 90% of the people i know voted leave. From my parents to my partner and children old enough to vote. But looks to me that some people on here wiil blame anyone else including english migrants for the result not going the way they wanted |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"How very defensive of you."
Definitely. I ll defend my family and friends and country (UK) to the end. My grandparents and parents brought me up that way, to respect others opinions religions and rights to freedom of speech and if my grandparents were around today they would be seething at the state of the country they fought to protect was in over a political row about a vote that was decided by the majority (no matter how large or small the margin) of people was being usurped by the politicians who are duty bound to act out the will of the people and not acting like a bunch of spoilt brats who didn't get their own way. If they didn't want this result they shouldn't have offered the vote to the public.
I think all MP's should be removed from office and made to re apply to their constituents based on their own feeling not party directives ask to be re elected. Then and only then would we have a fair representation of the public view in parliament. Yes a general election but with out party manifesto's but personal ones. Then lets see what happens |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"How very defensive of you.
Definitely. I ll defend my family and friends and country (UK) to the end. My grandparents and parents brought me up that way, to respect others opinions religions and rights to freedom of speech and if my grandparents were around today they would be seething at the state of the country they fought to protect was in over a political row about a vote that was decided by the majority (no matter how large or small the margin) of people was being usurped by the politicians who are duty bound to act out the will of the people and not acting like a bunch of spoilt brats who didn't get their own way. If they didn't want this result they shouldn't have offered the vote to the public.
I think all MP's should be removed from office and made to re apply to their constituents based on their own feeling not party directives ask to be re elected. Then and only then would we have a fair representation of the public view in parliament. Yes a general election but with out party manifesto's but personal ones. Then lets see what happens"
Daily Mash summary for you. You rock every box
"The Brexiter’s guide to misunderstanding democracy
20th September 2019
ARE you a Brexiter unable to stop howling about democracy despite not knowing how it works? Here’s how to be a shouty, ill-informed w**ker:
Transparently love fascism
Balance your belief in democracy with mental statements like ‘If Remoaners don’t like it, give them one-way tickets to Venezuela. And if they won’t get on the plane, set police dogs on them.’
Have a curious understanding of ‘majority’
52 per cent of Britain voted for the EU to f**k off. That’s a massive super-majority and the idea that it’s only 37 per cent of the electorate is just Remoaners twisting reality.
Know nothing about democracy except the vote bit
Separation of powers? Independent judiciary? A mountain of erudite thought is available in a split second on Google, but why waste your time with Tocqueville (French) and John Stuart Mill (three names, clearly posh) when the only important definition of democracy is ‘Brexit’?
Be furious
Even though you didn’t give a toss about any vote before or since 2016, be absolutely batsh*t, brink-of-a-coronary furious about it all the time. If people shuffle away from you in the pub or your wife has left you, you’re defending democracy.
Believe MPs are your slaves
Prove your ignorance of representative democracy by insisting MPs must do exactly what voters tell them to. If someone provides a ridiculous counter-example, eg ‘So should they put sharks in swimming pools if idiots vote for it?’, just angrily reply ‘YES!’
Make sh*t up as usual
Everyone who voted for Brexit wants no-deal and fully understood every last detail, despite a lot of them believing patent nonsense like the EU wanting to change the name of bananas to ‘das Yellowenbendifreut’." |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How very defensive of you.
Definitely. I ll defend my family and friends and country (UK) to the end. My grandparents and parents brought me up that way, to respect others opinions religions and rights to freedom of speech and if my grandparents were around today they would be seething at the state of the country they fought to protect was in over a political row about a vote that was decided by the majority (no matter how large or small the margin) of people was being usurped by the politicians who are duty bound to act out the will of the people and not acting like a bunch of spoilt brats who didn't get their own way. If they didn't want this result they shouldn't have offered the vote to the public.
I think all MP's should be removed from office and made to re apply to their constituents based on their own feeling not party directives ask to be re elected. Then and only then would we have a fair representation of the public view in parliament. Yes a general election but with out party manifesto's but personal ones. Then lets see what happens"
So one thing I have struggled with re Welsh leavers is that the EU pumped huge amounts of money into large areas of Wales because they were trying to raise the quality of life and make up for the deprivation brought about by the destruction of coal mining in particular. Now I do know that some parts of Wales did not receive any funding while the spending in other areas was quite lavish. So has that have and have not approach caused so many leavers in Wales and if so why didnt the local MPs or even better the MEPs do something about spreading the development cash wider? Any thoughts? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
At the end of the day the money spent in wales by the EU is only a small percentage of the overall money the Uk gives them .its like playing a slot machine. Sometime YOU ! win and sometimes you loose but the OWNER OF THE MACHINE NEVER LOOSES ! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"At the end of the day the money spent in wales by the EU is only a small percentage of the overall money the Uk gives them .its like playing a slot machine. Sometime YOU ! win and sometimes you loose but the OWNER OF THE MACHINE NEVER LOOSES !"
Well thanks for the thought you put into that  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
In port talbot they used to have a large refinery as well as the steel works who paid millions in business tax but very little of it was seen by the people of port talbot as it was paid into a central welsh account to be shared throughout wales. So the welsh are used to being screwed by polititions and governments |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"At the end of the day the money spent in wales by the EU is only a small percentage of the overall money the Uk gives them .its like playing a slot machine. Sometime YOU ! win and sometimes you loose but the OWNER OF THE MACHINE NEVER LOOSES !
Well thanks for the thought you put into that "
Welcome |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Better still let’s just give leavers one half of the country and remainers the other.I suggest south of Birmingham is in the EU.The rest of the country is out of it...
bob we have spoke about this before you know I’d go for that stop teasing me if only eh lol
I think the rest of the country would be up for it..Otherwise we could up in a civil war and I’m getting to old for that sort of bollocks.. so am I fuck that lol bob u be begging to come up here in ten yrs time hen yr house is under water lol
Thanks for the offer but I have no intention of living here in 10 years time.. "
can’t fault ya bob were you off somewhere hot I hope sell up now coastal propertys mite be about to plummet after last nights news |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In port talbot they used to have a large refinery as well as the steel works who paid millions in business tax but very little of it was seen by the people of port talbot as it was paid into a central welsh account to be shared throughout wales. So the welsh are used to being screwed by polititions and governments "
Still no real answer? I remember going to various parts of wales in the 1980s and 1990s and it was a fuck site worse off then than it is now so my question is why so many voted leave? I really would like to see a few good reasons for what on the face of it seems like a shit choice  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What a legally binding referendum! here in the UK!
And what happens if leave wins again. Would it be changed to and advisory referendum again and not legally binding until the result suits certain people
"
What do you mean would it be changed from a legally binding referendum to an advisory referendum again.....
Incase you missed it, the 2016 referendum wasn't legally binding to start with so it hasn't been changed as you like to portray it.
Jeez, so many people living in an alternative facts universe to the rest of us..... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The post i was replying to asked what if a new referendum was "legally binding" so that was my reply
"
"It doesn't matter if it's your own MP or an MEP they don't take any notice of what the people say as long as nothing rocks there gravy boat alls good, they are all liars who's main concern is themselves!
What is the solution then? My local MP is a Brexiter yet the majority of his constituents voted remain?
I think an MP should do what they think is best for their constituency / country. "
I agree, hence a new legally binding referendum, the old one is defunct |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"And repatriate the English to their own land, surrounded on all sides by the border of the EU?
"
Does that mean you will be going back to scotland or is only English in scotland and wales you are concerned with? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How very defensive of you.
Definitely. I ll defend my family and friends and country (UK) to the end. My grandparents and parents brought me up that way, to respect others opinions religions and rights to freedom of speech and if my grandparents were around today they would be seething at the state of the country they fought to protect was in over a political row about a vote that was decided by the majority (no matter how large or small the margin) of people was being usurped by the politicians who are duty bound to act out the will of the people and not acting like a bunch of spoilt brats who didn't get their own way. If they didn't want this result they shouldn't have offered the vote to the public.
I think all MP's should be removed from office and made to re apply to their constituents based on their own feeling not party directives ask to be re elected. Then and only then would we have a fair representation of the public view in parliament. Yes a general election but with out party manifesto's but personal ones. Then lets see what happens
So one thing I have struggled with re Welsh leavers is that the EU pumped huge amounts of money into large areas of Wales because they were trying to raise the quality of life and make up for the deprivation brought about by the destruction of coal mining in particular. Now I do know that some parts of Wales did not receive any funding while the spending in other areas was quite lavish. So has that have and have not approach caused so many leavers in Wales and if so why didnt the local MPs or even better the MEPs do something about spreading the development cash wider? Any thoughts?"
The valleys which received EU funding voted to leave. All of the North which received funding apart from Gwynedd voted leave |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In port talbot they used to have a large refinery as well as the steel works who paid millions in business tax but very little of it was seen by the people of port talbot as it was paid into a central welsh account to be shared throughout wales. So the welsh are used to being screwed by polititions and governments
Still no real answer? I remember going to various parts of wales in the 1980s and 1990s and it was a fuck site worse off then than it is now so my question is why so many voted leave? I really would like to see a few good reasons for what on the face of it seems like a shit choice "
They could well have used the referendum as a wake up call for MP's to listen to the electorate. Something they are still failing to do |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"In port talbot they used to have a large refinery as well as the steel works who paid millions in business tax but very little of it was seen by the people of port talbot as it was paid into a central welsh account to be shared throughout wales. So the welsh are used to being screwed by polititions and governments
Still no real answer? I remember going to various parts of wales in the 1980s and 1990s and it was a fuck site worse off then than it is now so my question is why so many voted leave? I really would like to see a few good reasons for what on the face of it seems like a shit choice
They could well have used the referendum as a wake up call for MP's to listen to the electorate. Something they are still failing to do"
They would be arguing for the next 9 months what the question was, you can guarantee it wouldn't be the same remain or leave.They would try to split the leave vote thats why we need to stick to the original vote they will stack the cards in their favour this time. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"In port talbot they used to have a large refinery as well as the steel works who paid millions in business tax but very little of it was seen by the people of port talbot as it was paid into a central welsh account to be shared throughout wales. So the welsh are used to being screwed by polititions and governments
Still no real answer? I remember going to various parts of wales in the 1980s and 1990s and it was a fuck site worse off then than it is now so my question is why so many voted leave? I really would like to see a few good reasons for what on the face of it seems like a shit choice
They could well have used the referendum as a wake up call for MP's to listen to the electorate. Something they are still failing to doThey would be arguing for the next 9 months what the question was, you can guarantee it wouldn't be the same remain or leave.They would try to split the leave vote thats why we need to stick to the original vote they will stack the cards in their favour this time."
Always a conspiracy.
Yet not willing to contemplate that the leave position is going to benefit a few wealthy people.
The elite pretending that they are smashing and the "other" elite the system because it doesn't work for you.
Do you really believe that it's being done for your benefit? How do you benefit? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Never thought it was being done for our benefit.
but hoped it would benifit the UK. But would be less beneficial to Brussels. Trade deals are always a good idea but trying to force unwanted laws and rules on people who do not want it lead to much worse things . Just look at certain dictators around the world who thought they re way was the best throughout history who will remain nameless
.unlike the cronies in brussels who remain faceless and try to take power from us through creating laws and rules to suit themselves |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"In port talbot they used to have a large refinery as well as the steel works who paid millions in business tax but very little of it was seen by the people of port talbot as it was paid into a central welsh account to be shared throughout wales. So the welsh are used to being screwed by polititions and governments
Still no real answer? I remember going to various parts of wales in the 1980s and 1990s and it was a fuck site worse off then than it is now so my question is why so many voted leave? I really would like to see a few good reasons for what on the face of it seems like a shit choice
They could well have used the referendum as a wake up call for MP's to listen to the electorate. Something they are still failing to doThey would be arguing for the next 9 months what the question was, you can guarantee it wouldn't be the same remain or leave.They would try to split the leave vote thats why we need to stick to the original vote they will stack the cards in their favour this time.
Always a conspiracy.
Yet not willing to contemplate that the leave position is going to benefit a few wealthy people.
The elite pretending that they are smashing and the "other" elite the system because it doesn't work for you.
Do you really believe that it's being done for your benefit? How do you benefit?"
so what i say is a conspiracy and what you say is not. well i could easy turn it around and say they dont want to leave to have a good chance of jumping on the gravy train and the people who do have no intention of getting a cosy little eu job to fill their pockets at everyones expense.But of course that wouldnt fit your narrative so anyone who disagrees is being conned by the"elite" which by the way in my world do not exist. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No need, these are recognised globally as Scottish, so how do we need to be "given back" what is already ours?
Laws will be rewritten if necessary you're old enough to know this, why would a larger, richer nation allow any other smaller, poorer nation to walk away with the resources? The short answer is they wouldn't, politicians won't let a.silly little thong like the law get in the way of a good financial acquisition. Scotland can't afford independence, end of, if they could shake us off they would have done it sometime in the last millennia."
There is, I believe, and internationally recognised line drawn in the North Sea, and the Atlantic for that matter, that divides Scottish sea from English. That’s why the oil is deemed Scottish and will go to/with Scotland.
Apart from that, it’s a fallacy, oft repeated by those who’d wish it to be true, that Scotland receives more than it pays to Westminster. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"In port talbot they used to have a large refinery as well as the steel works who paid millions in business tax but very little of it was seen by the people of port talbot as it was paid into a central welsh account to be shared throughout wales. So the welsh are used to being screwed by polititions and governments
Still no real answer? I remember going to various parts of wales in the 1980s and 1990s and it was a fuck site worse off then than it is now so my question is why so many voted leave? I really would like to see a few good reasons for what on the face of it seems like a shit choice
They could well have used the referendum as a wake up call for MP's to listen to the electorate. Something they are still failing to doThey would be arguing for the next 9 months what the question was, you can guarantee it wouldn't be the same remain or leave.They would try to split the leave vote thats why we need to stick to the original vote they will stack the cards in their favour this time.
Always a conspiracy.
Yet not willing to contemplate that the leave position is going to benefit a few wealthy people.
The elite pretending that they are smashing and the "other" elite the system because it doesn't work for you.
Do you really believe that it's being done for your benefit? How do you benefit?so what i say is a conspiracy and what you say is not. well i could easy turn it around and say they dont want to leave to have a good chance of jumping on the gravy train and the people who do have no intention of getting a cosy little eu job to fill their pockets at everyones expense.But of course that wouldnt fit your narrative so anyone who disagrees is being conned by the"elite" which by the way in my world do not exist. "
"Your" elite is better than "my" elite?
Is that your argument for smashing the establishment? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
