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New indy poll Scotland part 2
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"No not 'subsidy junkies'. Beneficiaries of being part of larger economy. Same as any other less well off region of any economy in the world big or small. Whether it's the EU paying for infrastructure projects in Greece, the UK spending more in Scotland than it provides, or Gloucestershire council spending more in the Forest of Dean district that it collects. That's the nature of economies. The richer areas pay for the poorer. That's the way it should be. " Scotland is NOT a region its a country Would it not be more of a beneifit to keep ALL money raised in Scotland ? Tell me what gets exported from Scotland to England ? Which Scottish products get made in Scotland and leave English ports as a UK product ? Which things in England get made in England get exported to Scotland ? Please none if the BMW crap as we all know that a German company Lol | |||
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"No not 'subsidy junkies'. Beneficiaries of being part of larger economy. Same as any other less well off region of any economy in the world big or small. Whether it's the EU paying for infrastructure projects in Greece, the UK spending more in Scotland than it provides, or Gloucestershire council spending more in the Forest of Dean district that it collects. That's the nature of economies. The richer areas pay for the poorer. That's the way it should be. Scotland is NOT a region its a country Would it not be more of a beneifit to keep ALL money raised in Scotland ? Tell me what gets exported from Scotland to England ? Which Scottish products get made in Scotland and leave English ports as a UK product ? Which things in England get made in England get exported to Scotland ? Please none if the BMW crap as we all know that a German company Lol " I was talking about economies not political states. That is why I described, Greece, Scotland and the Forest of Dean as regions. Nothing gets 'exported' from England to Scotland. And I have no idea what the breakdown is of the free trade that is made within the UK. But I'm sure the info is google-able. | |||
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"No not 'subsidy junkies'. Beneficiaries of being part of larger economy. Same as any other less well off region of any economy in the world big or small. Whether it's the EU paying for infrastructure projects in Greece, the UK spending more in Scotland than it provides, or Gloucestershire council spending more in the Forest of Dean district that it collects. That's the nature of economies. The richer areas pay for the poorer. That's the way it should be. Scotland is NOT a region its a country Would it not be more of a beneifit to keep ALL money raised in Scotland ? Tell me what gets exported from Scotland to England ? Which Scottish products get made in Scotland and leave English ports as a UK product ? Which things in England get made in England get exported to Scotland ? Please none if the BMW crap as we all know that a German company Lol I was talking about economies not political states. That is why I described, Greece, Scotland and the Forest of Dean as regions. Nothing gets 'exported' from England to Scotland. And I have no idea what the breakdown is of the free trade that is made within the UK. But I'm sure the info is google-able. " Nothing eh ? Says a lot Can you take a guess what gets exported from Scotland to England ? | |||
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"No not 'subsidy junkies'. Beneficiaries of being part of larger economy. Same as any other less well off region of any economy in the world big or small. Whether it's the EU paying for infrastructure projects in Greece, the UK spending more in Scotland than it provides, or Gloucestershire council spending more in the Forest of Dean district that it collects. That's the nature of economies. The richer areas pay for the poorer. That's the way it should be. Scotland is NOT a region its a country Would it not be more of a beneifit to keep ALL money raised in Scotland ? Tell me what gets exported from Scotland to England ? Which Scottish products get made in Scotland and leave English ports as a UK product ? Which things in England get made in England get exported to Scotland ? Please none if the BMW crap as we all know that a German company Lol I was talking about economies not political states. That is why I described, Greece, Scotland and the Forest of Dean as regions. Nothing gets 'exported' from England to Scotland. And I have no idea what the breakdown is of the free trade that is made within the UK. But I'm sure the info is google-able. Nothing eh ? Says a lot Can you take a guess what gets exported from Scotland to England ?" Ok you missed the subtleness of the language so I will explain it. There is no 'exporting' from Scotland to England or from England to Scotland as we are all in the same political Nation State. Just as there is no 'exporting' going on between Yorkshire and Northumberland. I did try and Google the trade numbers, but I have only found Scotland to England numbers so far. I'll keep looking. But what I have found from the Scottish government figures is just how reliant on England Scotland is. 65%! Another 15% to the rest of the EU. The other 20% to the rest of the world. | |||
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"No not 'subsidy junkies'. Beneficiaries of being part of larger economy. Same as any other less well off region of any economy in the world big or small. Whether it's the EU paying for infrastructure projects in Greece, the UK spending more in Scotland than it provides, or Gloucestershire council spending more in the Forest of Dean district that it collects. That's the nature of economies. The richer areas pay for the poorer. That's the way it should be. Scotland is NOT a region its a country Would it not be more of a beneifit to keep ALL money raised in Scotland ? Tell me what gets exported from Scotland to England ? Which Scottish products get made in Scotland and leave English ports as a UK product ? Which things in England get made in England get exported to Scotland ? Please none if the BMW crap as we all know that a German company Lol I was talking about economies not political states. That is why I described, Greece, Scotland and the Forest of Dean as regions. Nothing gets 'exported' from England to Scotland. And I have no idea what the breakdown is of the free trade that is made within the UK. But I'm sure the info is google-able. Nothing eh ? Says a lot Can you take a guess what gets exported from Scotland to England ? Ok you missed the subtleness of the language so I will explain it. There is no 'exporting' from Scotland to England or from England to Scotland as we are all in the same political Nation State. Just as there is no 'exporting' going on between Yorkshire and Northumberland. I did try and Google the trade numbers, but I have only found Scotland to England numbers so far. I'll keep looking. But what I have found from the Scottish government figures is just how reliant on England Scotland is. 65%! Another 15% to the rest of the EU. The other 20% to the rest of the world. " Wow so you think nothing gets exported from Scotland to England? So does meat , whiskey, soft drinks ,water Also just to see if you actually do know this Whiskey gets made in Scotland and goes down south to England and leaves English ports as a UK product where does the revenue go ? Yup to Westminster | |||
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"Your wasting your time arguing with Kinky, The delusion is absolute, another one who only believes that Scotland would prosper under St Nicola...If only the bad men at Westminster would let her. This despite the total shambles that passes for education, transport Health service. Oh and financially i would not trust them to pick up a take away meal for me "Out of interest I know you have problems with the SNP but in your opinion why do you think SNP keep getting elected by the people of Scotland? Education is good record number of pupils passing exams in Scotland Unionists will use the crap of lack of teachers when council's are in charge of hiring The Scottish NHS has the best record in the UK and nuffield trust seem to think the English NHS could learn from the Scottish NHS Transport Scotrail running to a 90%+ and free bus for the elderly even though Scottish Labour branch lied to the people as the SNP were never getting rid of the free bus pass You wouldn't trust the SNP financially but seems you would trust the Tories more eh lol | |||
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" Wow so you think nothing gets exported from Scotland to England? So does meat , whiskey, soft drinks ,water Also just to see if you actually do know this Whiskey gets made in Scotland and goes down south to England and leaves English ports as a UK product where does the revenue go ? Yup to Westminster " For the third time, nothing was 'exported'. There were sales. Glasgow and Gloucester are in the same political and economic nation. And of course tax revenues go to Westminster. There's where the nations exchequer is. | |||
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"No not 'subsidy junkies'. Beneficiaries of being part of larger economy. Same as any other less well off region of any economy in the world big or small. Whether it's the EU paying for infrastructure projects in Greece, the UK spending more in Scotland than it provides, or Gloucestershire council spending more in the Forest of Dean district that it collects. That's the nature of economies. The richer areas pay for the poorer. That's the way it should be. Scotland is NOT a region its a country Would it not be more of a beneifit to keep ALL money raised in Scotland ? Tell me what gets exported from Scotland to England ? Which Scottish products get made in Scotland and leave English ports as a UK product ? Which things in England get made in England get exported to Scotland ? Please none if the BMW crap as we all know that a German company Lol I was talking about economies not political states. That is why I described, Greece, Scotland and the Forest of Dean as regions. Nothing gets 'exported' from England to Scotland. And I have no idea what the breakdown is of the free trade that is made within the UK. But I'm sure the info is google-able. Nothing eh ? Says a lot Can you take a guess what gets exported from Scotland to England ? Ok you missed the subtleness of the language so I will explain it. There is no 'exporting' from Scotland to England or from England to Scotland as we are all in the same political Nation State. Just as there is no 'exporting' going on between Yorkshire and Northumberland. I did try and Google the trade numbers, but I have only found Scotland to England numbers so far. I'll keep looking. But what I have found from the Scottish government figures is just how reliant on England Scotland is. 65%! Another 15% to the rest of the EU. The other 20% to the rest of the world. Wow so you think nothing gets exported from Scotland to England? So does meat , whiskey, soft drinks ,water Also just to see if you actually do know this Whiskey gets made in Scotland and goes down south to England and leaves English ports as a UK product where does the revenue go ? Yup to Westminster " Shame on you Kinky! Whiskey is made in Ireland. Whisky is made in Scotland. | |||
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" Wow so you think nothing gets exported from Scotland to England? So does meat , whiskey, soft drinks ,water Also just to see if you actually do know this Whiskey gets made in Scotland and goes down south to England and leaves English ports as a UK product where does the revenue go ? Yup to Westminster For the third time, nothing was 'exported'. There were sales. Glasgow and Gloucester are in the same political and economic nation. And of course tax revenues go to Westminster. There's where the nations exchequer is." So you believe honestly believe nothing gets exported from Scotland to England ? Jesus i know its Xmas silly season lol So you think Scottish meat , soft drinks , Scottish water , and Whiskey does not get exported down to England ? Wow just wow lol Remember Whiskey is made here in Scotland yet you seem to think its ok for it to leave English ports as a UK product and then Westminster pick up any revenue on a Scottish made product Yeah this is why the UK corrupt and not a union | |||
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"Your wasting your time arguing with Kinky, The delusion is absolute, another one who only believes that Scotland would prosper under St Nicola...If only the bad men at Westminster would let her. This despite the total shambles that passes for education, transport Health service. Oh and financially i would not trust them to pick up a take away meal for me "Yes I fully understand that in the modern rapidly globalising world the time of competing petty kingdoms is gone. Integration, Standardisation are the future. But the only way to win over blind dogmatic denial is to keep chipping away with logic, facts and reason. Even the biggest xenophobic nationalist (Centaur) who would be happy to live penniless and hungry in a tent if they got their version of an independent country, can be brought round in time. | |||
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" So you believe honestly believe nothing gets exported from Scotland to England ? Jesus i know its Xmas silly season lol The term export doesn't apply. There were sales. I understand you are desperate to drive a wedge in to the peaceful workings of our nations trade by using incorrect terminology but I'm afraid it's you looking silly. And yes that is a que for you to reply with some nonsensical devisive nationalist rant. " | |||
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" So you believe honestly believe nothing gets exported from Scotland to England ? Jesus i know its Xmas silly season lol The term export doesn't apply. There were sales. I understand you are desperate to drive a wedge in to the peaceful workings of our nations trade by using incorrect terminology but I'm afraid it's you looking silly. And yes that is a que for you to reply with some nonsensical devisive nationalist rant. " Ok we will agree to disagree but one thing i can see i can agree on with you as you say ''nations'' So Scotland is not a region it is a country just as England is a country and Wales and N.Ireland good ,good now only if other can learn that the UK is NOT country but a union of countries and that Britain is an island lol | |||
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" Remember Whiskey is made here in Scotland yet you seem to think its ok for it to leave English ports as a UK product and then Westminster pick up any revenue on a Scottish made product Yeah this is why the UK corrupt and not a union " It doesn't matter if it was manufactured in Aberdeen or Penzance. A sale is a sale and the tax goes to the exchequer. The Treasurey then spends that money. Now it turns out that more is spent by the Government in Scotland than is collected but that is irrelevant. The Goverment spends where it's needed. I know you love to throw nonsensical extremist phrases around like 'corrupt' and 'dictatorship' but the UK is so far from that it is frankly ridiculous to keep doing it. | |||
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"Why do the SNP keep getting elected ?Why did Trump win ? why leave the EU?... There are many reasons that people seem to vote against what appears to be there best interests.... But here in Scotland it is mainly down to the piss poor opposition... The Snp "stole" the left of centre stage but the problem is they have failed and are now being squeezed. Labour to the left the Tories to the right and tactical voting will i fancy consign them to the opposition benches ...they are sliding out of favour ...With Sturgeons political touch gone they have no one else with any feel for the political winds which have shifted against the SNP "So your opinion that why SNP keep getting elected is because of piss poor unionist branch offices lol Nothing to do with the fact that people elect the SNP on trust to govern Scotland ? Yeah ok lol Also you seem to be happy at tactical voting to get the SNP out of government that is shocking but then again well all know Red and blue Tories stick together Must be great to always put Scotland down and its all doom and gloom never bugger all good to say about Scotland but thats the way of pro hardcore unionist lol | |||
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" Ok we will agree to disagree but one thing i can see i can agree on with you as you say ''nations'' " Ha ha ha  That's funny.
Again with silly word games
That's 'Nations Free Trade' as in the free trade of the whole nation. It's not Nations as in plural. Because in the context of this debate we are talking economics and in that context England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are one indivisible Nation.
In a political sense, yes there are four regions that back in the days of yore were at various times part of various petty kingdoms. Irrelevant in the modern world. | |||
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"Wow just wow seems there is more than a few people on here that are quite happy to call the country they were born in a wee region Not even proud enough to call it a country so for those that call the UK a country by that logic you are then calling the Eu one big country then lmao Again the UK is NOT a country its a union of countries Britain is an island the EU is a union of 27 independent countries the Eu is not a country lol Jesus seems the Xmas silly season has carried on lol " Don't change the subject. We are debating National economics not political identities. | |||
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"Tax revenues annually collected in Scotland £50bn. Government spending annually in Scotland £60bn. Treasury figures" It's actually more than that if we take the total spend for the benefit of Scotland. It's £71.2bn The total revenue including a geographic share of North Sea Oil is £58bn so there's a massive shortfall of over £13bn Even Sturgeon hasn't denied that one and has acknowledged that this needs addressed. Misinformation means many nats at the more 'cranky' end of the political spectrum don't believe any of this though. | |||
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"Ah now i get it Is that what it is afraid if Scotland goes independent no more Scottish revenue to depend on ? Ah right i get you all know So thats why you think Scottish products should leave English ports as UK product so it comes back to the UK treasury where they back up the revenue instead of going to Scotland I wondered why you were all happy for Scottish made products and any money made on them going straight to Westminster now i do get it And just to be clear yes i believe any money raised is Scotland through Scottish made products should NOT go down to Westminster Just as any money raised in England if any should stay in England seems only fair I know you all know Scotland is a wealthy country and that is why Wesminter are hell bend on keeping Scotland as they know they need Scotland more than we need them" So to be clear here, you're claiming that money from Scottish goods is being attributed to England if it leaves from English ports? The money for the goods is paid to the company that sells them, i.e. in Scotland. If you're planning to re-iterate the nat myth of export duty then it's probably a good idea to tell you right now that there's no such thing. | |||
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"Ah now i get it Is that what it is afraid if Scotland goes independent no more Scottish revenue to depend on ? Ah right i get you all know So thats why you think Scottish products should leave English ports as UK product so it comes back to the UK treasury where they back up the revenue instead of going to Scotland I wondered why you were all happy for Scottish made products and any money made on them going straight to Westminster now i do get it And just to be clear yes i believe any money raised is Scotland through Scottish made products should NOT go down to Westminster Just as any money raised in England if any should stay in England seems only fair I know you all know Scotland is a wealthy country and that is why Wesminter are hell bend on keeping Scotland as they know they need Scotland more than we need them So to be clear here, you're claiming that money from Scottish goods is being attributed to England if it leaves from English ports? The money for the goods is paid to the company that sells them, i.e. in Scotland. If you're planning to re-iterate the nat myth of export duty then it's probably a good idea to tell you right now that there's no such thing." No am claiming that Scottish products are going down south to England and being exported as a damn UK product. Scotland has ports here and why not export them as Scottish products ? The UK treasury s where the money goes correct ? Take Tesco for example they thought they would be smart and take the Scottish flag off of Scottish Strawberries and replace it with the UK union jack shit all because someone in England didnt like the fact the Scottish Saltire was on the product But no no Tesco in England thing its fine then to keep the English flag on their milk see the double standards ? | |||
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"Ah now i get it Is that what it is afraid if Scotland goes independent no more Scottish revenue to depend on ? Ah right i get you all know So thats why you think Scottish products should leave English ports as UK product so it comes back to the UK treasury where they back up the revenue instead of going to Scotland I wondered why you were all happy for Scottish made products and any money made on them going straight to Westminster now i do get it And just to be clear yes i believe any money raised is Scotland through Scottish made products should NOT go down to Westminster Just as any money raised in England if any should stay in England seems only fair I know you all know Scotland is a wealthy country and that is why Wesminter are hell bend on keeping Scotland as they know they need Scotland more than we need them So to be clear here, you're claiming that money from Scottish goods is being attributed to England if it leaves from English ports? The money for the goods is paid to the company that sells them, i.e. in Scotland. If you're planning to re-iterate the nat myth of export duty then it's probably a good idea to tell you right now that there's no such thing. No am claiming that Scottish products are going down south to England and being exported as a damn UK product. Scotland has ports here and why not export them as Scottish products ? The UK treasury s where the money goes correct ? Take Tesco for example they thought they would be smart and take the Scottish flag off of Scottish Strawberries and replace it with the UK union jack shit all because someone in England didnt like the fact the Scottish Saltire was on the product But no no Tesco in England thing its fine then to keep the English flag on their milk see the double standards ?" Honestly, this is like something a child would come up with. You need to stop reading Wings. It doesn't matter where the products are exported from and I'll give you a very simple explanation of how it works: If I own a company and sell goods abroad then the person buying them sends the money to me. I then ship them abroad from any port in the UK. So where does the government get money on this? It gets it from through a range of sources, such as corporation tax on profits, income tax and national insurance contributions on staff earnings, and non-domestic rates payments on business premises. So what money are you claiming doesn't come to Scotland? | |||
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"Ah right so what your saying is Scotland is far too poor and far too stupid to be ever independent we really need the big broad shoulders of the UK to help us wee poor Scottish fuckers out lol Here is another thing its not for people in another country to decide Scotland's future only those living in Scotland can decide Out of interest Glosguy do you have a problem with Scotland having another independence referendum when the final brexit deal is known ? Say it will leave Scotland worse off being in a UK brexit would you still be happy to accept Scotland going along with England out of the EU single market and cusoms union ? Or would you be telling Scotland get the fuck away from this brexit mess and go it alone ? " Now this is a definition perfect example of an 'inferority complex'
I have never called the Scots anything like what you have just called yourself.
And yes the Scottish economy does need the UK economy in or out of the EU.
Referendum wise. Can there be yet another one. Yes. Should there be? I think no. | |||
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"Ah right so what your saying is Scotland is far too poor and far too stupid to be ever independent we really need the big broad shoulders of the UK to help us wee poor Scottish fuckers out lol Here is another thing its not for people in another country to decide Scotland's future only those living in Scotland can decide Out of interest Glosguy do you have a problem with Scotland having another independence referendum when the final brexit deal is known ? Say it will leave Scotland worse off being in a UK brexit would you still be happy to accept Scotland going along with England out of the EU single market and cusoms union ? Or would you be telling Scotland get the fuck away from this brexit mess and go it alone ? Now this is a definition perfect example of an 'inferority complex'
I have never called the Scots anything like what you have just called yourself.
And yes the Scottish economy does need the UK economy in or out of the EU.
Referendum wise. Can there be yet another one. Yes. Should there be? I think no."To be honest the 'Too wee, too poor...' line is only ever used by nationalists and isn't used by anyone else (although they somehow believe it is). The great irony in it is that the term was coined by John Swinney, the SNP's education minister.  | |||
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"Ah now i get it Is that what it is afraid if Scotland goes independent no more Scottish revenue to depend on ? Ah right i get you all know So thats why you think Scottish products should leave English ports as UK product so it comes back to the UK treasury where they back up the revenue instead of going to Scotland I wondered why you were all happy for Scottish made products and any money made on them going straight to Westminster now i do get it And just to be clear yes i believe any money raised is Scotland through Scottish made products should NOT go down to Westminster Just as any money raised in England if any should stay in England seems only fair I know you all know Scotland is a wealthy country and that is why Wesminter are hell bend on keeping Scotland as they know they need Scotland more than we need them So to be clear here, you're claiming that money from Scottish goods is being attributed to England if it leaves from English ports? The money for the goods is paid to the company that sells them, i.e. in Scotland. If you're planning to re-iterate the nat myth of export duty then it's probably a good idea to tell you right now that there's no such thing. No am claiming that Scottish products are going down south to England and being exported as a damn UK product. Scotland has ports here and why not export them as Scottish products ? The UK treasury s where the money goes correct ? Take Tesco for example they thought they would be smart and take the Scottish flag off of Scottish Strawberries and replace it with the UK union jack shit all because someone in England didnt like the fact the Scottish Saltire was on the product But no no Tesco in England thing its fine then to keep the English flag on their milk see the double standards ? Honestly, this is like something a child would come up with. You need to stop reading Wings. It doesn't matter where the products are exported from and I'll give you a very simple explanation of how it works: If I own a company and sell goods abroad then the person buying them sends the money to me. I then ship them abroad from any port in the UK. So where does the government get money on this? It gets it from through a range of sources, such as corporation tax on profits, income tax and national insurance contributions on staff earnings, and non-domestic rates payments on business premises. So what money are you claiming doesn't come to Scotland? " It does'nt matter ? Again there is Scottish ports here in Scotland but n no you would rather Scottish products go down to English ports and exported as a UK product ? Not proud enough to call it a Scottish product ? Also are you really claiming that everyone that is pro indy somehow reads only Wings over Scotland Thats like me turning round to you and saying you only read things from Scotland in the union lmao Like i said Tesco thought they would be smart and take the Scottish saltire off Scottish products and replace them with the UK union jack all because of one person in England complained they didnt like that a Scottish flag was on the product but no no Tesco think it was fine to keep the English flag on milk Can you not see the double standards in that ? | |||
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"I’m with kinky on having another Indy referendum. It would save the rest of the UK a fortune.... in fact that £13bn would work out at £250million a week. Why not spend it on the NHS? We could put that on the side of a big red bus!" He he he Very funny | |||
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"Ps. What is Wings? I have seen it referenced a few times?" WingsoverScotland. It's a pro indy website written by a pretty nasty individual from Bath! He basically makes his living from crowdfunding etc from some nationalists so has to keep churning out grievances, many fake, in order to keep the money coming in and keep people on board. Kinky believes it all. | |||
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"Ah now i get it Is that what it is afraid if Scotland goes independent no more Scottish revenue to depend on ? Ah right i get you all know So thats why you think Scottish products should leave English ports as UK product so it comes back to the UK treasury where they back up the revenue instead of going to Scotland I wondered why you were all happy for Scottish made products and any money made on them going straight to Westminster now i do get it And just to be clear yes i believe any money raised is Scotland through Scottish made products should NOT go down to Westminster Just as any money raised in England if any should stay in England seems only fair I know you all know Scotland is a wealthy country and that is why Wesminter are hell bend on keeping Scotland as they know they need Scotland more than we need them So to be clear here, you're claiming that money from Scottish goods is being attributed to England if it leaves from English ports? The money for the goods is paid to the company that sells them, i.e. in Scotland. If you're planning to re-iterate the nat myth of export duty then it's probably a good idea to tell you right now that there's no such thing. No am claiming that Scottish products are going down south to England and being exported as a damn UK product. Scotland has ports here and why not export them as Scottish products ? The UK treasury s where the money goes correct ? Take Tesco for example they thought they would be smart and take the Scottish flag off of Scottish Strawberries and replace it with the UK union jack shit all because someone in England didnt like the fact the Scottish Saltire was on the product But no no Tesco in England thing its fine then to keep the English flag on their milk see the double standards ? Honestly, this is like something a child would come up with. You need to stop reading Wings. It doesn't matter where the products are exported from and I'll give you a very simple explanation of how it works: If I own a company and sell goods abroad then the person buying them sends the money to me. I then ship them abroad from any port in the UK. So where does the government get money on this? It gets it from through a range of sources, such as corporation tax on profits, income tax and national insurance contributions on staff earnings, and non-domestic rates payments on business premises. So what money are you claiming doesn't come to Scotland? It does'nt matter ? Again there is Scottish ports here in Scotland but n no you would rather Scottish products go down to English ports and exported as a UK product ? Not proud enough to call it a Scottish product ? Also are you really claiming that everyone that is pro indy somehow reads only Wings over Scotland Thats like me turning round to you and saying you only read things from Scotland in the union lmao Like i said Tesco thought they would be smart and take the Scottish saltire off Scottish products and replace them with the UK union jack all because of one person in England complained they didnt like that a Scottish flag was on the product but no no Tesco think it was fine to keep the English flag on milk Can you not see the double standards in that ? " So I see you're desperately tyring to avoid it but, where is this money you claim is missing because goods leave from English ports? | |||
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"Ps. What is Wings? I have seen it referenced a few times?" Wings over Scotland is a blog unionists fear and they try and gag him Case in point instead of just ignoring him they try and get him gagged when he puts up facts on his page now i have said it time and time again i dont like Stu who runs the Wings over Scotland page but unionists shit their knickers over what he says like i said they can choose to ignore him but they cant because he hits them with facts that they dont want the public to know Now Scotland in the union is another blog page and its all pure hatred of the SNP and nationalists and alot of crap on their page but see me i know to just ignore that shite | |||
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"Ps. What is Wings? I have seen it referenced a few times? Wings over Scotland is a blog unionists fear and they try and gag him Case in point instead of just ignoring him they try and get him gagged when he puts up facts on his page now i have said it time and time again i dont like Stu who runs the Wings over Scotland page but unionists shit their knickers over what he says like i said they can choose to ignore him but they cant because he hits them with facts that they dont want the public to know Now Scotland in the union is another blog page and its all pure hatred of the SNP and nationalists and alot of crap on their page but see me i know to just ignore that shite " No one fears him. The prime example of why is on this thread, you're posting nonsense about exports and whisky that he made up on that site. It's utter lies and has been proven to be the case. But you believe it all and are then unable to answer when the facts are posted. | |||
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"Ps. What is Wings? I have seen it referenced a few times? Wings over Scotland is a blog unionists fear and they try and gag him Case in point instead of just ignoring him they try and get him gagged when he puts up facts on his page now i have said it time and time again i dont like Stu who runs the Wings over Scotland page but unionists shit their knickers over what he says like i said they can choose to ignore him but they cant because he hits them with facts that they dont want the public to know Now Scotland in the union is another blog page and its all pure hatred of the SNP and nationalists and alot of crap on their page but see me i know to just ignore that shite No one fears him. The prime example of why is on this thread, you're posting nonsense about exports and whisky that he made up on that site. It's utter lies and has been proven to be the case. But you believe it all and are then unable to answer when the facts are posted." Yeah right lol then why do unionists insist on trying to shut him up ? Why not just ignore Wings over Scotland ? I ignore all the unionist blogs i dont go trying to shut them up and gag them The latest one on here was because the poll was from Wings over Scotland its not to be believed But if the poll is not to be believed all because it was from Wings over Scotland then why the hell would he would put a poll up was the independence side only on 49% ? LMAO surely he would put yes way in the lead But if read that poll that independence has not been killed off the way unionists would have you believe its on the rise wthout a campaign and still to see the final brexit deal and its near neck and neck i wouldnt be so damn cocky if i were a unionist you may wanna take the no voters for granted but lets see when that final deal comes in and if Scotland truly is going to be far worse off in a UK brexit if they wanna stay in the UK brexit mess eh lol | |||
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"Actually the Brexit result is irrelevant for Scotland. Yes there is an unconfirmed guess that Scotland may be £30bn worse off but that is still better off than it'll be out of the UK and in Europe (and it is iffy that it will qualify for that at the moment!). " Wow just honestly wow You try telling people here living in Scotland that brexit is irrelevant to them even though the majority voted to remain in the EU Right so if it is true that Scotland will end up being £30billion off worse in a UK brexit what you are saying is you dont care its all about keeping the UK together no matter what and willing for Scotland to be £30billion worse off ? Wow just hohnestly fucking wow Yeah there is your family of nations caring about people lives in Sco9tland eh lol | |||
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"Actually the Brexit result is irrelevant for Scotland. Yes there is an unconfirmed guess that Scotland may be £30bn worse off but that is still better off than it'll be out of the UK and in Europe (and it is iffy that it will qualify for that at the moment!). Wow just honestly wow You try telling people here living in Scotland that brexit is irrelevant to them even though the majority voted to remain in the EU Right so if it is true that Scotland will end up being £30billion off worse in a UK brexit what you are saying is you dont care its all about keeping the UK together no matter what and willing for Scotland to be £30billion worse off ? Wow just hohnestly fucking wow Yeah there is your family of nations caring about people lives in Sco9tland eh lol " Ha ha ha. Try re-reading what I wrote and not making up words for me. I didn't make any comment about keeping the UK together. I am still talking about economics, as I have through out this thread. You're the one who keeps throwing out random tangents to try and distract away from the core subject of the debate which is that an Independent Scotland will struggle financially. | |||
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As per my post of only 7 minutes ago, here's a distracting tangent | |||
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"Exactly “who” has tried to shut wings over Scotland up....? Most of us love it....it’s usually well funnier than Viz!" Kezia Dugdale would be one trying to gag him Why on earth do you think she went on ''Im a celeb'' ? Answer to get the cash needed for her court case for defamation against Stu Read his actually quote about Oliver Mundell and David Mundell and then try and tell me its worse that what one person said about Katie Hopkins and her dad should have used a condom lol Kezia stood up in parliament to attack Stu when he was not there to defend himself Like i said unionists are trying to gag him through fear he is exposing their lies | |||
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"I don’t agree with shutting down wings. But ignoring them is dangerous. See brexit. Trump. Et al. IF they are peddling miss truths and IF people vote en masse off the back of this then they are creating a hazard that could destroy an economy. See brexit (possibly). The fact many engage only with sources that confirm their beliefs is perhaps the most dangerous aspect of the online world and politics. Tbh it’s why I’m grateful for kinky and centaur ... without them I’d be ignorant of the other sides vitriol sitting in an echo chamber. " Right so please by all means go onto Wings over Scotland right now and then try and deny he is not telling the truth on the issue about Scottish Labour branch saying Labour will ban zero hour contracts when Welsh voted against banning them and in 1995 Labour told people they would ban them way back then so is Wongs over Scotland lying there and why is that not important to share for people to see Labour are lying bastards ? lol | |||
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"Exactly “who” has tried to shut wings over Scotland up....? Most of us love it....it’s usually well funnier than Viz! Kezia Dugdale would be one trying to gag him Why on earth do you think she went on ''Im a celeb'' ? Answer to get the cash needed for her court case for defamation against Stu Read his actually quote about Oliver Mundell and David Mundell and then try and tell me its worse that what one person said about Katie Hopkins and her dad should have used a condom lol Kezia stood up in parliament to attack Stu when he was not there to defend himself Like i said unionists are trying to gag him through fear he is exposing their lies" You can't be sued for deformation or slander for what you say in parliament. It's called parliamentary privilege. | |||
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"I do worry for Kinkys mental health , he is like a drowning man ranting that he does not need a hand from those with a lifebelt.....Your exactly why people dislike the bigots that support the extremes of the SNP... No tolerance just playing the victim. your moaning about a flag on cheese for gods sake..., you should take a look around you and see that foodbanks exist in this Scottish nirvana that the SNP preside over..a disgrace shared with the other countries of the UK "Bigots really?i have said this before everyone in scotland knows who the bigots are and its the unionists with there anti scots anti catholic bile you hear anywhere a few of them get together ,just thought id clear that up for our english friends on here who might not know that | |||
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"Bigots really?i have said this before everyone in scotland knows who the bigots are and its the unionists with there anti scots anti catholic bile you hear anywhere a few of them get together ,just thought id clear that up for our english friends on here who might not know that " 'anti-catholic'!?! Ha ha ha The 21st century has passed you by completely hasn't it. | |||
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"Bigots really?i have said this before everyone in scotland knows who the bigots are and its the unionists with there anti scots anti catholic bile you hear anywhere a few of them get together ,just thought id clear that up for our english friends on here who might not know that 'anti-catholic'!?! Ha ha ha The 21st century has passed you by completely hasn't it. "Oh the anti catholic bigots in scotland are worse now than they have ever been | |||
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"Exactly “who” has tried to shut wings over Scotland up....? Most of us love it....it’s usually well funnier than Viz! Kezia Dugdale would be one trying to gag him Why on earth do you think she went on ''Im a celeb'' ? Answer to get the cash needed for her court case for defamation against Stu Read his actually quote about Oliver Mundell and David Mundell and then try and tell me its worse that what one person said about Katie Hopkins and her dad should have used a condom lol Kezia stood up in parliament to attack Stu when he was not there to defend himself Like i said unionists are trying to gag him through fear he is exposing their lies You can't be sued for deformation or slander for what you say in parliament. It's called parliamentary privilege. " It’s also another load of boycows doodoo that anyone is going on tv programmes to fund court action...... | |||
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"Bigots really?i have said this before everyone in scotland knows who the bigots are and its the unionists with there anti scots anti catholic bile you hear anywhere a few of them get together ,just thought id clear that up for our english friends on here who might not know that 'anti-catholic'!?! Ha ha ha The 21st century has passed you by completely hasn't it.
Oh the anti catholic bigots in scotland are worse now than they have ever been "I wouldn't worry. It's just another tribal legacy that will be left behind in another generation or two. | |||
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"Typical of the SNP bigots i was talking about...Anti-Catholic ?...anti-Scottish? . You obviously have that victim card and are going to play it .... "I support snp and im not a bigot and i dont need to play any victim card its there for all to see anytime a few unionists get together fck the tories even have bigots in there party check out the 2 who were suspended for vile anti catholic comments on twitter and fb but that seems to be ok as they were allowed back in with a slap on the wrist to me that says everything about the unionists | |||
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"Typical of the SNP bigots i was talking about...Anti-Catholic ?...anti-Scottish? . You obviously have that victim card and are going to play it ....
I support snp and im not a bigot and i dont need to play any victim card its there for all to see anytime a few unionists get together fck the tories even have bigots in there party check out the 2 who were suspended for vile anti catholic comments on twitter and fb but that seems to be ok as they were allowed back in with a slap on the wrist to me that says everything about the unionists "Well maybe you can explain how the SNP have raised taxes when the OP says they dont have the power? And also explain why they would raise the taxes, instead of reducing them to zero, if Scotland doesn't get to keep the money? Will you say that Kinky is wrong? | |||
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"Typical of the SNP bigots i was talking about...Anti-Catholic ?...anti-Scottish? . You obviously have that victim card and are going to play it ....
I support snp and im not a bigot and i dont need to play any victim card its there for all to see anytime a few unionists get together fck the tories even have bigots in there party check out the 2 who were suspended for vile anti catholic comments on twitter and fb but that seems to be ok as they were allowed back in with a slap on the wrist to me that says everything about the unionists
Well maybe you can explain how the SNP have raised taxes when the OP says they dont have the power?
And also explain why they would raise the taxes, instead of reducing them to zero, if Scotland doesn't get to keep the money?
Will you say that Kinky is wrong? "What has that got to do with the last few posts a few ppl were talking about ? | |||
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"Typical of the SNP bigots i was talking about...Anti-Catholic ?...anti-Scottish? . You obviously have that victim card and are going to play it ....
I support snp and im not a bigot and i dont need to play any victim card its there for all to see anytime a few unionists get together fck the tories even have bigots in there party check out the 2 who were suspended for vile anti catholic comments on twitter and fb but that seems to be ok as they were allowed back in with a slap on the wrist to me that says everything about the unionists
Well maybe you can explain how the SNP have raised taxes when the OP says they dont have the power?
And also explain why they would raise the taxes, instead of reducing them to zero, if Scotland doesn't get to keep the money?
Will you say that Kinky is wrong?
What has that got to do with the last few posts a few ppl were talking about ? "You and kinky are both fierce independence advocates, in the post that I quoted, you said that you are an SNP supporter. I therefore assume that you are aware that the SNP have raised taxes, hence my post. So how about it? Do you agree with me that the SNP have the power to change rates of taxation, or with Kinky that they don't? Do you think the SNP would raise taxes, if it just went to Westminster and didn't benefit the people of Scotland? That's what kinky is saying saying happens. | |||
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"Ps. What is Wings? I have seen it referenced a few times? Wings over Scotland is a blog unionists fear and they try and gag him Case in point instead of just ignoring him they try and get him gagged when he puts up facts on his page now i have said it time and time again i dont like Stu who runs the Wings over Scotland page but unionists shit their knickers over what he says like i said they can choose to ignore him but they cant because he hits them with facts that they dont want the public to know Now Scotland in the union is another blog page and its all pure hatred of the SNP and nationalists and alot of crap on their page but see me i know to just ignore that shite No one fears him. The prime example of why is on this thread, you're posting nonsense about exports and whisky that he made up on that site. It's utter lies and has been proven to be the case. But you believe it all and are then unable to answer when the facts are posted. Yeah right lol then why do unionists insist on trying to shut him up ? Why not just ignore Wings over Scotland ? I ignore all the unionist blogs i dont go trying to shut them up and gag them The latest one on here was because the poll was from Wings over Scotland its not to be believed But if the poll is not to be believed all because it was from Wings over Scotland then why the hell would he would put a poll up was the independence side only on 49% ? LMAO surely he would put yes way in the lead But if read that poll that independence has not been killed off the way unionists would have you believe its on the rise wthout a campaign and still to see the final brexit deal and its near neck and neck i wouldnt be so damn cocky if i were a unionist you may wanna take the no voters for granted but lets see when that final deal comes in and if Scotland truly is going to be far worse off in a UK brexit if they wanna stay in the UK brexit mess eh lol " I don't read his site. Also as someone else pointed out to you the poll has Yes at 42% and no at 58%. Now about this money you claim isn't counted because goods leave from English ports, I take it you're ignoring this now that you've been found out? | |||
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"Typical of the SNP bigots i was talking about...Anti-Catholic ?...anti-Scottish? . You obviously have that victim card and are going to play it ....
I support snp and im not a bigot and i dont need to play any victim card its there for all to see anytime a few unionists get together fck the tories even have bigots in there party check out the 2 who were suspended for vile anti catholic comments on twitter and fb but that seems to be ok as they were allowed back in with a slap on the wrist to me that says everything about the unionists
Well maybe you can explain how the SNP have raised taxes when the OP says they dont have the power?
And also explain why they would raise the taxes, instead of reducing them to zero, if Scotland doesn't get to keep the money?
Will you say that Kinky is wrong?
What has that got to do with the last few posts a few ppl were talking about ?
You and kinky are both fierce independence advocates, in the post that I quoted, you said that you are an SNP supporter. I therefore assume that you are aware that the SNP have raised taxes, hence my post. So how about it? Do you agree with me that the SNP have the power to change rates of taxation, or with Kinky that they don't?
Do you think the SNP would raise taxes, if it just went to Westminster and didn't benefit the people of Scotland? That's what kinky is saying saying happens. "You take that up with kinky as i cant be arsed going round in circles as thats what you seem to do with your posts ,yes i support snp and independence and am more than happy with the job the scottish goverment are doing | |||
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"Typical of the SNP bigots i was talking about...Anti-Catholic ?...anti-Scottish? . You obviously have that victim card and are going to play it ....
I support snp and im not a bigot and i dont need to play any victim card its there for all to see anytime a few unionists get together fck the tories even have bigots in there party check out the 2 who were suspended for vile anti catholic comments on twitter and fb but that seems to be ok as they were allowed back in with a slap on the wrist to me that says everything about the unionists
Well maybe you can explain how the SNP have raised taxes when the OP says they dont have the power?
And also explain why they would raise the taxes, instead of reducing them to zero, if Scotland doesn't get to keep the money?
Will you say that Kinky is wrong?
What has that got to do with the last few posts a few ppl were talking about ?
You and kinky are both fierce independence advocates, in the post that I quoted, you said that you are an SNP supporter. I therefore assume that you are aware that the SNP have raised taxes, hence my post. So how about it? Do you agree with me that the SNP have the power to change rates of taxation, or with Kinky that they don't?
Do you think the SNP would raise taxes, if it just went to Westminster and didn't benefit the people of Scotland? That's what kinky is saying saying happens.
You take that up with kinky as i cant be arsed going round in circles as thats what you seem to do with your posts ,yes i support snp and independence and am more than happy with the job the scottish goverment are doing "I'm asking you, does the Scottish Parliament have the power to change rates of taxation in Scotland? Surely that's a simple enough question for you to answer? | |||
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" Wow so you think nothing gets exported from Scotland to England? So does meat , whiskey, soft drinks ,water Also just to see if you actually do know this Whiskey gets made in Scotland and goes down south to England and leaves English ports as a UK product where does the revenue go ? Yup to Westminster For the third time, nothing was 'exported'. There were sales. Glasgow and Gloucester are in the same political and economic nation. And of course tax revenues go to Westminster. There's where the nations exchequer is. So you believe honestly believe nothing gets exported from Scotland to England ? Jesus i know its Xmas silly season lol So you think Scottish meat , soft drinks , Scottish water , and Whiskey does not get exported down to England ? Wow just wow lol Remember Whiskey is made here in Scotland yet you seem to think its ok for it to leave English ports as a UK product and then Westminster pick up any revenue on a Scottish made product Yeah this is why the UK corrupt and not a union " Sorry but this is Uttar drivel. This is part of the grevience pish snats put out. Wings started this nonsense that whisky exported through an English port earned the treasury tax. There is not an export tax no matter where whisky is exported from. This guff has been repeated many times by the snp msp Joan macalpine and a few others. The Scottish government own figures include everything made in Scotland is accounted for by them. So this is just a feed of push belived by snp sheep. | |||
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"Hmmmm, deafening silence... Not one SNP supporter, or independence advocate can answer the question; does the Scottish Parliament have the power to change rates of taxation? As I stated before if you live in Scotland you get an S on your tax code so you pay the higher rate for Scotland. The mod are gonna compensate their personal based in Scot land so they have the same pay as the rest of the service personal stationed outside Scotland. " | |||
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"do you guys whinge just for the sake of whinging??" Rarecask, you're another SNP supporter, have the SNP raised taxes? | |||
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"So the only people who support Scottish independence don't understand how the system currently works, and those who do understand how the system works, all want to remain in the UK. That says quite a lot. " Don't forget the massive tax cut for the poorly paid !!!! 38 pence per week woo hoo !!! | |||
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"So the only people who support Scottish independence don't understand how the system currently works, and those who do understand how the system works, all want to remain in the UK. That says quite a lot. Don't forget the massive tax cut for the poorly paid !!!! 38 pence per week woo hoo !!!" Which will be more than wiped out by the fact that they've cut funding to local authorities (yet again) and are advising them to increase the council tax to increase funding. | |||
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"do you guys whinge just for the sake of whinging??" Nope. No whinging going on. Just trying to educate the regressive and out of touch with the benefits of the modern progressive world Admittedly it is like banging our heads against a brick wall of blind denial, but we pursevere for your own good!  | |||
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You can try it for yourself, visit the site and make a few contrary comments. You will be descended upon by his rabid followers and hounded on social media and subsequently blocked.
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"Tax revenues annually collected in Scotland £50bn. Government spending annually in Scotland £60bn. Treasury figures" Doesn't factor in ALL the money sent from Scotland from all taxes or all oil revenue in 'Scottish' waters | |||
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"do you guys whinge just for the sake of whinging?? Rarecask, you're another SNP supporter, have the SNP raised taxes? " CLCC, you are mistaken, I no longer support SNP, I gave up on them when Nicola Sturgeon took over and started making changes that I fully disagree with, such as minimum alcohol pricing, new firearm laws & legislation, gay marriage, Named Person Scheme for children and many other things as well as the stupid "new baby box" and their strange thought that the whole of Scotland voted to remain in EU . with regards to raising taxes as far as I am aware they raised the higher tax band (or lowered the earnings amount before tax) for higher tax payer. I haven't looked too far into it as I am now on pension and my pension is just below higher tax bracket, but yes I do believe they have raised taxes for higher tax payers and said the cash used will be for Schools, I could find out more as I am still an SNP member as I paid subscription before giving up on Nicola's crazy visions. As long as I live and have the right to vote, I will always support Independence for Scotland, that is one thing I will not give up on. | |||
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"Tax revenues annually collected in Scotland £50bn. Government spending annually in Scotland £60bn. Treasury figures Doesn't factor in ALL the money sent from Scotland from all taxes or all oil revenue in 'Scottish' waters" Yes it does. | |||
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"Tax revenues annually collected in Scotland £50bn. Government spending annually in Scotland £60bn. Treasury figures Doesn't factor in ALL the money sent from Scotland from all taxes or all oil revenue in 'Scottish' waters Yes it does." No, it doesn't. Tax is paid by every living being in the UK, working or not, and by a fair few dead ones too. The only tax Scotland can alter are those that are devolved, namely Income Tax, Landfill and one from selling houses. All that and the money from all the other taxes- vat, fuel, products, business tax/ corporation to name a few go to the Treasury and the value of any product manufactured in Scotland, which I think is what Kinky is getting at, isn't included. | |||
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"Tax revenues annually collected in Scotland £50bn. Government spending annually in Scotland £60bn. Treasury figures Doesn't factor in ALL the money sent from Scotland from all taxes or all oil revenue in 'Scottish' waters" North Sea oil is now a net drain on the treasury. Is doesn't make money. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-36388621 | |||
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"Tax revenues annually collected in Scotland £50bn. Government spending annually in Scotland £60bn. Treasury figures Doesn't factor in ALL the money sent from Scotland from all taxes or all oil revenue in 'Scottish' waters" I posted the figures above which includes all the revenue from Scotland "It's actually more than that if we take the total spend for the benefit of Scotland. It's £71.2bn The total revenue including a geographic share of North Sea Oil is £58bn so there's a massive shortfall of over £13bn" That includes everything, VAT, business rates etc etc | |||
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"This is to milli,greenoackmale,l and a and ticklygit since you all have a total dislike bordering on hatered of anything the snp do maybe yous can let us know who you would like to see running the country ? and your reasons why they would do a better job ?" | |||
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"Well, the latest report from August 2017 says the revenues were £0.2 billion more in the first quarter than the same period last year, at £0.9 billion. That's revenue. PRT rate is now zero, bringing a drop in revenue but repayments are still to be paid on that so as usual, statistics are as clear as mud." Yep I've just seen that same report. And it states as others have that it's even worse than I originally stated. Revenues of £58bn and Expenditure of £71bn! including North Sea Oil. | |||
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"Also, Kinky's claim was the nonsense spread on Wings that goods sold by Scottish companies but transported abroad through English ports don't count as Scottish revenue. It's a ridiculous lie which has been disproven." Kinky seems to believe the port authority gets all the value of the goods moving through it, and the company selling the product gets zero. | |||
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"Also, Kinky's claim was the nonsense spread on Wings that goods sold by Scottish companies but transported abroad through English ports don't count as Scottish revenue. It's a ridiculous lie which has been disproven. Kinky seems to believe the port authority gets all the value of the goods moving through it, and the company selling the product gets zero. " Yeah, which is why I asked he question if the company who sells the goods get the money then where is this magic missing money that is attributed to England? | |||
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"Trying to make sense of these wildly varying figures is like wading through treacle. The Scottish budget 2016-7 is £37 billion but the block grant is only about half that. It also appears Scotland has massively overpaid for defence, debt interest and administrative services that should not apply. Could this be to make Scotland appear poorer than it is? If Scotland is such a terrible drain on finances.....why fight do hard and so dirty to keep it? " Scotland is actually underpaying on debt, i.e. we are paying based on the UK deficit rate not our own substantially larger deficit. Can you point me to your source that shows we're overpaying for administration, defence and debt? Thanks | |||
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"There is one fundamentale flaw to all the arguments you’re having about leaving and staying. The only question and answer you really need to know is, if Scotland was no use to England and let’s be fair, when we talk Westminster we mean England, because it cares not about Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland in any other way apart from revenue. Why do they want to keep us as much? If we were that bad and had to be supported by handouts, then we all know long ago, we would’ve been dismissed. Realise it and educate your mind, the world is a capitalist play ground and morals, heatlh services, education do not matter. It’s the elite getting richer by any means that’s the only way, it’s a big old mans club and we’re not invited. That said, I’d still happily just fuck and be happy and do my own thing. Fight the system, fuck everyone else x " It's not difficult, all countried try to keep their constituent parts together. NI is a big drain on the UK economy but it keeps it. Every country in the world keeps itself together, they don't just cut loose areas that are less financially successful than other areas, the UK isn't alone on that front. Then of course there is the other obvious answer, it's the will of the Scottish people to remain in the UK. | |||
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"Trying to make sense of these wildly varying figures is like wading through treacle. The Scottish budget 2016-7 is £37 billion but the block grant is only about half that. It also appears Scotland has massively overpaid for defence, debt interest and administrative services that should not apply. Could this be to make Scotland appear poorer than it is? If Scotland is such a terrible drain on finances.....why fight do hard and so dirty to keep it? " Thank you someone gets it Why would Westminster be so hell bend on keeping Scotland in the UK if it was such drain on finances and some people think Scottish people are subsidy junkies where we leech off the rest of the UK | |||
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" Revenues of £58bn and Expenditure of £71bn! including North Sea Oil." Expenditures I guess are up to the UK government to decide on and set against revenue, which is rising again. I find it interesting the increase in expenditure started the year the Scottish Referendum was decided. | |||
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"This isn’t about a country cutting loose parts that are not working or contribute less. This is about a union, which is unfair and disproportionate and this is why certain areas are not proposing. I don’t dislike the English or anyone else, I do however dislike ignorance and arrogance that I’m some way paints us as fools. It’s a true saying, 1st they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win " Sorry but your on some weird rhetorical rant that is devoid of facts and figures to back it up so I'll leave you to it. | |||
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"Trying to make sense of these wildly varying figures is like wading through treacle. The Scottish budget 2016-7 is £37 billion but the block grant is only about half that. It also appears Scotland has massively overpaid for defence, debt interest and administrative services that should not apply. Could this be to make Scotland appear poorer than it is? If Scotland is such a terrible drain on finances.....why fight do hard and so dirty to keep it? Scotland is actually underpaying on debt, i.e. we are paying based on the UK deficit rate not our own substantially larger deficit. Can you point me to your source that shows we're overpaying for administration, defence and debt? Thanks" GERS | |||
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"This isn’t about a country cutting loose parts that are not working or contribute less. This is about a union, which is unfair and disproportionate and this is why certain areas are not proposing. I don’t dislike the English or anyone else, I do however dislike ignorance and arrogance that I’m some way paints us as fools. It’s a true saying, 1st they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win Sorry but your on some weird rhetorical rant that is devoid of facts and figures to back it up so I'll leave you to it. " You only have to look at certain areas across the UK to see factual evidence. I respect the vote and that’s the independence thing put to bed for me, I’m not a nat voter, but fairness and the spread of wealth is ridiculous for all to see. Scotland is surrounded by water, yet we don’t have one used to export any of our oil or whisky. It leaves from England, so the treasury gets the VAT and then decides what to give back. Still think that’s fair. I’ll leave that with you, as it’s none of my business. | |||
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"Trying to make sense of these wildly varying figures is like wading through treacle. The Scottish budget 2016-7 is £37 billion but the block grant is only about half that. It also appears Scotland has massively overpaid for defence, debt interest and administrative services that should not apply. Could this be to make Scotland appear poorer than it is? If Scotland is such a terrible drain on finances.....why fight do hard and so dirty to keep it? Scotland is actually underpaying on debt, i.e. we are paying based on the UK deficit rate not our own substantially larger deficit. Can you point me to your source that shows we're overpaying for administration, defence and debt? Thanks GERS" It's Gers (and it's methodology) I'm using as a source. So what has lead you to this conclusion that we're overspending in these areas? How much are we spending on defence, admin and debt and how much do you think it should be? | |||
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" Scotland is surrounded by water, yet we don’t have one used to export any of our oil or whisky. It leaves from England, so the treasury gets the VAT and then decides what to give back. Still think that’s fair. I’ll leave that with you, as it’s none of my business. " It doesn't matter where it leaves from VAT goes to the Treasury and this money is apportined to where it was sold from (not the port it leaves from). So a Scottish company sells a product and it leaves from an English or Scottish port (it doesn't matter which) the company pays VAT and this is then counted as Scottish revenue. Read the Scottish Govt website for confirmation of this. It's unbelievable how many people believe this English ports nonsense. | |||
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"There is one fundamentale flaw to all the arguments you’re having about leaving and staying. The only question and answer you really need to know is, if Scotland was no use to England and let’s be fair, when we talk Westminster we mean England, because it cares not about Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland in any other way apart from revenue. Why do they want to keep us as much? If we were that bad and had to be supported by handouts, then we all know long ago, we would’ve been dismissed. Realise it and educate your mind, the world is a capitalist play ground and morals, heatlh services, education do not matter. It’s the elite getting richer by any means that’s the only way, it’s a big old mans club and we’re not invited. That said, I’d still happily just fuck and be happy and do my own thing. Fight the system, fuck everyone else x " Can you name one country anywhere in the world that has thrown out one part of the country for being to poor? I'm going to bet that you can't, and you haven't properly understood the purpose of the nation state. | |||
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"Trying to make sense of these wildly varying figures is like wading through treacle. The Scottish budget 2016-7 is £37 billion but the block grant is only about half that. It also appears Scotland has massively overpaid for defence, debt interest and administrative services that should not apply. Could this be to make Scotland appear poorer than it is? If Scotland is such a terrible drain on finances.....why fight do hard and so dirty to keep it? Scotland is actually underpaying on debt, i.e. we are paying based on the UK deficit rate not our own substantially larger deficit. Can you point me to your source that shows we're overpaying for administration, defence and debt? Thanks GERS It's Gers (and it's methodology) I'm using as a source. So what has lead you to this conclusion that we're overspending in these areas? How much are we spending on defence, admin and debt and how much do you think it should be?" Lol. Do your own research. It didn't take me long so just look. I'm not your library )
A clue though, try the BBC economics reports. It's all there. | |||
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"So it would appear pro unionists seem fine from Scottish products going down to English ports to be exported as a UK product which then goes to the UK treasury for them to decide what we can have back Interesting to see there is people from Scotland in here that seem utterly fine to by pass Scottish ports and not one of can deny there is no Scottish ports and one hell of amount of Scottish waters Scotland is a wealth country and Westminster know it and thats why they are hell bend on keeping Scotland in the UK Ah waiting on the doom and gloom unionists on here telling us all how much Scotland is poor and shite and cant go it alone need the big broad shoulders if the UK to help us poor fuckers out " I don't know what you IQ is but this is all very simple. It doesn't matter which port it leaves from only where the company sold it comes from. Also, the treasury doesn't 'decide' how much is attributed to Scotland it is assigned based on where the company is based that sold the product. If you want to whine about stuff not leaving from Scottish ports (even though there's no reason to) then ask companies why they don't send it from them, or ask the Scottish govt whey they don't set up the appropriate facilities. Of course there's a simple reason they won't and it's because there is no need. | |||
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"Trying to make sense of these wildly varying figures is like wading through treacle. The Scottish budget 2016-7 is £37 billion but the block grant is only about half that. It also appears Scotland has massively overpaid for defence, debt interest and administrative services that should not apply. Could this be to make Scotland appear poorer than it is? If Scotland is such a terrible drain on finances.....why fight do hard and so dirty to keep it? Scotland is actually underpaying on debt, i.e. we are paying based on the UK deficit rate not our own substantially larger deficit. Can you point me to your source that shows we're overpaying for administration, defence and debt? Thanks GERS It's Gers (and it's methodology) I'm using as a source. So what has lead you to this conclusion that we're overspending in these areas? How much are we spending on defence, admin and debt and how much do you think it should be? Lol. Do your own research. It didn't take me long so just look. I'm not your library )
A clue though, try the BBC economics reports. It's all there. "I just thought if you were claiming we seem to be paying too much for certain things you'd have a reason, obviously I was wrong. I'll help out though, Scotland's share for the items you've mentioned is based on population and is 8.3%. So we're definitely not overpaying. | |||
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"Why would Westminster be so hell bend on keeping Scotland in the UK if it was such drain on finances and some people think Scottish people are subsidy junkies where we leech off the rest of the UK " Ha ha ha. Again with the silly 'subsidy junkie' sound byte. You do love your melodramatic nonsense don't you So I'll repeat what I replied with earlier in this thread, not subsidy junkies, but beneficiaries of being part of a larger economy. | |||
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" Do your own research. It didn't take me long so just look. I'm not your library )
A clue though, try the BBC economics reports. It's all there.
I just thought if you were claiming we seem to be paying too much for certain things you'd have a reason, obviously I was wrong.
I'll help out though, Scotland's share for the items you've mentioned is based on population and is 8.3%. So we're definitely not overpaying. "Go on, it's not that hard to check. It's all there in black and white from noted economists and reports. Interesting, though you base it against population, rather than the more usual way. | |||
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"In that case, surely, since this information is coming from GERS, it strengthens your case for an independent Scotland since you'd argue the figures are weighted in favour of the overall UK and show Scottish 'wealth a much poorer light than in reality. " No, that's a complete misunderstanding of the figures. They don't just take a population share of income and expenditure and work it out that way, it's far far more complex. It does however take a population share to work out certain areas of expenditure that benefit the UK as a whole, i.e. defence. The good thing is though it's all available to view on the Scottish government website so it's explained in detail. I don't know a single nationalist that's looked at them in any detail though which is why we have these constant claims that have no basis in fact. | |||
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" Do your own research. It didn't take me long so just look. I'm not your library )
A clue though, try the BBC economics reports. It's all there.
I just thought if you were claiming we seem to be paying too much for certain things you'd have a reason, obviously I was wrong.
I'll help out though, Scotland's share for the items you've mentioned is based on population and is 8.3%. So we're definitely not overpaying.
Go on, it's not that hard to check. It's all there in black and white from noted economists and reports. Interesting, though you base it against population, rather than the more usual way. "I'm not basing it on population, the Scottish and UK governments are. What would you consider the 'more usual' way? | |||
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"There is one fundamentale flaw to all the arguments you’re having about leaving and staying. The only question and answer you really need to know is, if Scotland was no use to England and let’s be fair, when we talk Westminster we mean England, because it cares not about Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland in any other way apart from revenue. Why do they want to keep us as much? If we were that bad and had to be supported by handouts, then we all know long ago, we would’ve been dismissed. Realise it and educate your mind, the world is a capitalist play ground and morals, heatlh services, education do not matter. It’s the elite getting richer by any means that’s the only way, it’s a big old mans club and we’re not invited. That said, I’d still happily just fuck and be happy and do my own thing. Fight the system, fuck everyone else x " Ok then. More paranoid tribalism. The reason people prefer to stay together is guess what? To stay together! Inclusiveness, integration, closeness all drives peace and prosperity for all. Divisive, protectionist separate patches of mud with different flags and ambitions causes conflicts and loss. Basic philosophy really. | |||
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"So OP, if all of the taxes raised in Scotland go to Westminster, then why have the SNP raised taxes? For the benefit of the rest of the UK?" I suppose it's true, though. All taxes DO go to the Treasury (not Westminster btw). Any increase in the Scottish Income Tax is taken off the Block Grant. | |||
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" What would you consider the 'more usual' way?" You flatter me Not 'my' way: I have no input into GERS or the BBC ecomnomic reports lol | |||
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"So it would appear pro unionists seem fine from Scottish products going down to English ports to be exported as a UK product which then goes to the UK treasury for them to decide what we can have back Interesting to see there is people from Scotland in here that seem utterly fine to by pass Scottish ports and not one of can deny there is no Scottish ports and one hell of amount of Scottish waters Scotland is a wealth country and Westminster know it and thats why they are hell bend on keeping Scotland in the UK Ah waiting on the doom and gloom unionists on here telling us all how much Scotland is poor and shite and cant go it alone need the big broad shoulders if the UK to help us poor fuckers out " More repeating yourself in the face of the governments own evidence. So I will also repeat myself. Port of export is irrelevant for tax. The Scottish economy is only valued at a tiny £216bn and 65% of it is reliant on the rest of the UK. So yes you do need us. | |||
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" What would you consider the 'more usual' way? You flatter me Not 'my' way: I have no input into GERS or the BBC ecomnomic reports lol"Well as I've said that method is the one used by the Scottish and UK government and is the one published in Gers. There is no other sendible method. I think you don't understand the things you are reading which is why you're unable to back them up with any facts or figures and instead are just making baseless statements. | |||
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"Question for Kinky. Just why are you so hell bent on an independent Scotland? I'm curious to know what changes you think could be made to benefit the 5m who live there? " Simple answer to end Westminster rule Scotland is getting fed up of getting governments we didnt vote for When was the last time Scotland voted for a Tory government? The big change we wont suffer Tory cuts!!! We who suppose independent want to vote for the government we elect and to have full let me say that again FULL control over our own affairs we didnt know elite dickheads trying to tell us what set budget we get and we have to have cuts onto our Scottish budget Let me twist it round and see how you would feel if this was the way of things say the UK government was based in Edinburgh and the government in Scotland and say the UK tresury was in Scotland and it decided what England gets in budget trying to tell me you would be happy for another countries government setting a budget for England so its cut to the bone on what things England can spend that money get real!! lol Its time to end this union and go our own ways and yes lets be neighbours not dictators | |||
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""Oh and GERS doesnt tell us all what an independent Scotland would look like lol" Exactly, it does show the starting point from leaving the union to independence. Can any nationalist tell us how Scotland would "look like" if independent in the same detail that GERS does? No they can't! Ask yourself this, would you buy something that you don't know what it looks like? Or how much it would cost? Or how it would effect your finances? That's exactly what the likes of kinky wants the people of Scotland to do. Thankfully the people of Scotland rejected the "pig in a poke" that was offered to them by the inept snp in 2014. " ight so you agree with me that GERS doesnt show you what an independent Scotland looks like and it shows you what Scotland looks like right now in the UK correct ? Bit daft that trying to use the GERS when unionists are the ones telling us all the ill effects of GERS lmao!!! Tickly why in the hell do you want the Tories to be in charge of non devolved matters ? Why in the hell are you not fighting for all to be devolved to Scotland ? Really you really saying you trust the Tories more than the SNP ? Need i remind you its the Tories cutting people's ESA /PIP not the SNP its the Tories inforcing the bedroom that yes the SNP is mitigating so you or your family or friends dont need to pay a single fucking penny on that dickhead tax why in the hell would you not want that devolved ? Do you not get it the Tories are the one causing people to be poor and homeless yet still want to be part of this UK union ? If Scotland truly is to be £30 billion worse off in a UK brexit are you ready to accept that ? Not think that will effect people in any way ? Or is it ruly the UK at any damn cost Rule Britannia | |||
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"So OP, if all of the taxes raised in Scotland go to Westminster, then why have the SNP raised taxes? For the benefit of the rest of the UK? I suppose it's true, though. All taxes DO go to the Treasury (not Westminster btw). Any increase in the Scottish Income Tax is taken off the Block Grant." So why has the SNP raised taxes if its of no benefit to Scotland? | |||
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"Question for Kinky. Just why are you so hell bent on an independent Scotland? I'm curious to know what changes you think could be made to benefit the 5m who live there? Simple answer to end Westminster rule Scotland is getting fed up of getting governments we didnt vote for When was the last time Scotland voted for a Tory government? The big change we wont suffer Tory cuts!!! We who suppose independent want to vote for the government we elect and to have full let me say that again FULL control over our own affairs we didnt know elite dickheads trying to tell us what set budget we get and we have to have cuts onto our Scottish budget Let me twist it round and see how you would feel if this was the way of things say the UK government was based in Edinburgh and the government in Scotland and say the UK tresury was in Scotland and it decided what England gets in budget trying to tell me you would be happy for another countries government setting a budget for England so its cut to the bone on what things England can spend that money get real!! lol Its time to end this union and go our own ways and yes lets be neighbours not dictators " Scotland used to consistently vote Labour and regularly elect governments. It's because in the last 2 general elections the SNP were voted for that the Conservatives have had the big lead in MPs elected. 'We won't suffer Tory cuts' Instead you'd suffer even bigger Scottish government cuts. It wouldn't matter in the least if the National government, treasury and bureaucracy moved as a whole to Scotland. The rest of the Nation would still get the same money allocated to it. And ending with yet another idiotic nonsensical sound byte ruined an otherwise well written response. The UK is nowhere near a dictatorship as is blatantly obvious to any one that understands what one is. | |||
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I see you did not even attempt to make a positive case in favour of independence.
.
.
You could not even estimate the price the people of Scotland would have to pay for it.
You cant even answer a basic question.
How much would it cost?
If you were looking for a TV (or anything else), you would ask the salesman, "how much does it cost?", And if the salesman couldnt/wouldnt give you an honest factual answer.
Would you buy it?
.
.
These lunatics want the people of Scotland to do just that.
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""If Scotland truly is to be £30 billion worse off in a UK brexit are you ready to accept that ? Not think that will effect people in any way ? Or is it ruly the UK at any damn cost Rule Britannia" Yes it will effect people but not as much as being out of the UK and out of the EU. And the 'Scotland will be fast tracked back in' myth has been debunked on about 10 threads now. | |||
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""If Scotland truly is to be £30 billion worse off in a UK brexit are you ready to accept that ? Not think that will effect people in any way ? Or is it ruly the UK at any damn cost Rule Britannia Yes it will effect people but not as much as being out of the UK and out of the EU. And the 'Scotland will be fast tracked back in' myth has been debunked on about 10 threads now." Coming out of the UK would be catastrophic. Trade with the UK has risen from £28.6bn to £49.9bn between 2002 - 2015. Trade with the EU is tiny in comparison only rising from £8.9bn to £12.3bn in the same period. Also trade with the rest of the world has increased from £11.4bn to £16.4bn. It's very telling that the SNP demand reports into the impact of Brexit on Scotland but never once done a report on the impact of Scotland leaving the UK. | |||
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"Question for Kinky. Just why are you so hell bent on an independent Scotland? I'm curious to know what changes you think could be made to benefit the 5m who live there? Simple answer to end Westminster rule Scotland is getting fed up of getting governments we didnt vote for When was the last time Scotland voted for a Tory government? The big change we wont suffer Tory cuts!!! We who suppose independent want to vote for the government we elect and to have full let me say that again FULL control over our own affairs we didnt know elite dickheads trying to tell us what set budget we get and we have to have cuts onto our Scottish budget Let me twist it round and see how you would feel if this was the way of things say the UK government was based in Edinburgh and the government in Scotland and say the UK tresury was in Scotland and it decided what England gets in budget trying to tell me you would be happy for another countries government setting a budget for England so its cut to the bone on what things England can spend that money get real!! lol Its time to end this union and go our own ways and yes lets be neighbours not dictators Scotland used to consistently vote Labour and regularly elect governments. It's because in the last 2 general elections the SNP were voted for that the Conservatives have had the big lead in MPs elected. 'We won't suffer Tory cuts' Instead you'd suffer even bigger Scottish government cuts. It wouldn't matter in the least if the National government, treasury and bureaucracy moved as a whole to Scotland. The rest of the Nation would still get the same money allocated to it. And ending with yet another idiotic nonsensical sound byte ruined an otherwise well written response. The UK is nowhere near a dictatorship as is blatantly obvious to any one that understands what one is." Yup your correct Scotland did consistenly vote Labour until people woke up and saw Labour in Scotland are fucking useless and are only a branch office of the UK Labour party and many wont ever forgive them for joining up with the Tories in 2014 to form the Better Together shite Ah right so now trying to pin the blame on Scottish people electing the SNP and thats somehow why the Tories are in power bullshit in 2015 you could have given all 59 Scottish seats to Scottish Labour branch and still the Tories would have been in government in the UK nice try What in the fuck ? Those cuts are coming from Westminster onto Scotland's budget that is fuck all to do with the SNP and you know it the lies is unreal as sick as fuck lol Money is not devolved to Scotland our Scottish government can only decide where the money gets spend it doesnt have control on how much we get off the UK treasury wake the hell up lol ''The UK is nowhere near a dictatorship '' Now i now your on the wind up Tell me does Scotland have full control over all powers ? Why in the fuck should Scotland be told no you have no say in this matter when we the Scottish people didnt elect a Tory government | |||
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""If Scotland truly is to be £30 billion worse off in a UK brexit are you ready to accept that ? Not think that will effect people in any way ? Or is it ruly the UK at any damn cost Rule Britannia Yes it will effect people but not as much as being out of the UK and out of the EU. And the 'Scotland will be fast tracked back in' myth has been debunked on about 10 threads now." Right thank you so here we are people honestly sitting there admitting yes it will effect people if it is true that Scotland will end up £30 bllon off worse being in the UK brexit and no thats fine to make people suffer just to keep a damn UK union together fucking madness!!! Right so say Scotland meets the criteria to be in the EU and fast tracked into the EU are you still gonna sit there and claim Scotland should suffer being £30 billion worse off being in the UK ? | |||
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"Yup your correct Scotland did consistenly vote Labour until people woke up and saw Labour in Scotland are fucking useless and are only a branch office of the UK Labour party and many wont ever forgive them for joining up with the Tories in 2014 to form the Better Together shite Ah right so now trying to pin the blame on Scottish people electing the SNP and thats somehow why the Tories are in power bullshit in 2015 you could have given all 59 Scottish seats to Scottish Labour branch and still the Tories would have been in government in the UK nice try What in the fuck ? Those cuts are coming from Westminster onto Scotland's budget that is fuck all to do with the SNP and you know it the lies is unreal as sick as fuck lol Money is not devolved to Scotland our Scottish government can only decide where the money gets spend it doesnt have control on how much we get off the UK treasury wake the hell up lol ''The UK is nowhere near a dictatorship '' Now i now your on the wind up Tell me does Scotland have full control over all powers ? Why in the fuck should Scotland be told no you have no say in this matter when we the Scottish people didnt elect a Tory government" Not blaming anything on anyone because I'm not that petty. The Scots have been voting Labour for 100 years! How many labour governments have there been? It's only 7 years ago there was a Scottish Labour PM! I'm not sure where you think I said the cuts were from the SNP? I said in an independent Scotland the cuts would be replaced by Scottish government cuts because there wouldn't be the £13bn extra money coming from the rest of the UK. Even if the money from the Barnet formula went to Scotland they would still be 5bn a year short! And if you think you live in a dictatorship you are thick. There is no secret police snatching people for sedition (you for example). No monitoring of private emails or websites (like this one). No restrictions on personal movement, employment or free time. You need to dump the paranoid little man attitude. | |||
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"So OP, if all of the taxes raised in Scotland go to Westminster, then why have the SNP raised taxes? For the benefit of the rest of the UK? I suppose it's true, though. All taxes DO go to the Treasury (not Westminster btw). Any increase in the Scottish Income Tax is taken off the Block Grant. So why has the SNP raised taxes if its of no benefit to Scotland? " No thoughts anyone? | |||
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"Right thank you so here we are people honestly sitting there admitting yes it will effect people if it is true that Scotland will end up £30 bllon off worse being in the UK brexit and no thats fine to make people suffer just to keep a damn UK union together fucking madness!!! " I didn't say anything like that. Stop making stuff up with distracting tangents. I said if it losses out on £30bn (an unconfirmed number) Scotland would lose even more out of both the UK and the EU. | |||
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"Right so say Scotland meets the criteria to be in the EU and fast tracked into the EU are you still gonna sit there and claim Scotland should suffer being £30 billion worse off being in the UK ? " As I've said several times now... YES! Because Scotlands economy is so dependent on the rest of the UK. In fact if we get a Hard Brexit and Scotland rejoins the EU you will be even worse off again as we would be in separate customs unions! | |||
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"Yup your correct Scotland did consistenly vote Labour until people woke up and saw Labour in Scotland are fucking useless and are only a branch office of the UK Labour party and many wont ever forgive them for joining up with the Tories in 2014 to form the Better Together shite Ah right so now trying to pin the blame on Scottish people electing the SNP and thats somehow why the Tories are in power bullshit in 2015 you could have given all 59 Scottish seats to Scottish Labour branch and still the Tories would have been in government in the UK nice try What in the fuck ? Those cuts are coming from Westminster onto Scotland's budget that is fuck all to do with the SNP and you know it the lies is unreal as sick as fuck lol Money is not devolved to Scotland our Scottish government can only decide where the money gets spend it doesnt have control on how much we get off the UK treasury wake the hell up lol ''The UK is nowhere near a dictatorship '' Now i now your on the wind up Tell me does Scotland have full control over all powers ? Why in the fuck should Scotland be told no you have no say in this matter when we the Scottish people didnt elect a Tory government Not blaming anything on anyone because I'm not that petty. The Scots have been voting Labour for 100 years! How many labour governments have there been? It's only 7 years ago there was a Scottish Labour PM! I'm not sure where you think I said the cuts were from the SNP? I said in an independent Scotland the cuts would be replaced by Scottish government cuts because there wouldn't be the £13bn extra money coming from the rest of the UK. Even if the money from the Barnet formula went to Scotland they would still be 5bn a year short! And if you think you live in a dictatorship you are thick. There is no secret police snatching people for sedition (you for example). No monitoring of private emails or websites (like this one). No restrictions on personal movement, employment or free time. You need to dump the paranoid little man attitude. " Yeah take a wild guess what Scotland told Labour branch office to fuck off lol 100 years and Labour still havent delivered on Home Rule for Scotland remember 1995 Labour promised to ban zero hour contracts yet here in 2017 the Scottish Labour branch office think they can ban zero hour contracts eh duh its not devolved thanks to guess who yup Labour didnt want to devolve it in the Smith commission still wondering why Scotland dont vote Labour anymore ? lol Ah right thank you calling me thick now lol well done Again if Scotland is not living under a UK dictatorship as you say then we would have the power to say have an independence referendum a legally binding one without the permission from the UK government then ? Oh wait the Scottish people elected a party on a manifesto policy to have a referendum if Scotland faced being dragged out of the EU and single market and customs thats is a mandate from the Scottish people and yet we Scottish people are getting told now is not the time ok when is the time for a legally binding referendum that we have a mandate for ? Is that not democracy in action ? | |||
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"Yup your correct Scotland did consistenly vote Labour until people woke up and saw Labour in Scotland are fucking useless and are only a branch office of the UK Labour party and many wont ever forgive them for joining up with the Tories in 2014 to form the Better Together shite Ah right so now trying to pin the blame on Scottish people electing the SNP and thats somehow why the Tories are in power bullshit in 2015 you could have given all 59 Scottish seats to Scottish Labour branch and still the Tories would have been in government in the UK nice try What in the fuck ? Those cuts are coming from Westminster onto Scotland's budget that is fuck all to do with the SNP and you know it the lies is unreal as sick as fuck lol Money is not devolved to Scotland our Scottish government can only decide where the money gets spend it doesnt have control on how much we get off the UK treasury wake the hell up lol ''The UK is nowhere near a dictatorship '' Now i now your on the wind up Tell me does Scotland have full control over all powers ? Why in the fuck should Scotland be told no you have no say in this matter when we the Scottish people didnt elect a Tory government Not blaming anything on anyone because I'm not that petty. The Scots have been voting Labour for 100 years! How many labour governments have there been? It's only 7 years ago there was a Scottish Labour PM! I'm not sure where you think I said the cuts were from the SNP? I said in an independent Scotland the cuts would be replaced by Scottish government cuts because there wouldn't be the £13bn extra money coming from the rest of the UK. Even if the money from the Barnet formula went to Scotland they would still be 5bn a year short! And if you think you live in a dictatorship you are thick. There is no secret police snatching people for sedition (you for example). No monitoring of private emails or websites (like this one). No restrictions on personal movement, employment or free time. You need to dump the paranoid little man attitude. Yeah take a wild guess what Scotland told Labour branch office to fuck off lol 100 years and Labour still havent delivered on Home Rule for Scotland remember 1995 Labour promised to ban zero hour contracts yet here in 2017 the Scottish Labour branch office think they can ban zero hour contracts eh duh its not devolved thanks to guess who yup Labour didnt want to devolve it in the Smith commission still wondering why Scotland dont vote Labour anymore ? lol Ah right thank you calling me thick now lol well done Again if Scotland is not living under a UK dictatorship as you say then we would have the power to say have an independence referendum a legally binding one without the permission from the UK government then ? Oh wait the Scottish people elected a party on a manifesto policy to have a referendum if Scotland faced being dragged out of the EU and single market and customs thats is a mandate from the Scottish people and yet we Scottish people are getting told now is not the time ok when is the time for a legally binding referendum that we have a mandate for ? Is that not democracy in action ? " That's not dictatorship. That's just you stamping your foot and having a cry because the party you voted for not being big enough to do something you want it to. | |||
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"Yup your correct Scotland did consistenly vote Labour until people woke up and saw Labour in Scotland are fucking useless and are only a branch office of the UK Labour party and many wont ever forgive them for joining up with the Tories in 2014 to form the Better Together shite Ah right so now trying to pin the blame on Scottish people electing the SNP and thats somehow why the Tories are in power bullshit in 2015 you could have given all 59 Scottish seats to Scottish Labour branch and still the Tories would have been in government in the UK nice try What in the fuck ? Those cuts are coming from Westminster onto Scotland's budget that is fuck all to do with the SNP and you know it the lies is unreal as sick as fuck lol Money is not devolved to Scotland our Scottish government can only decide where the money gets spend it doesnt have control on how much we get off the UK treasury wake the hell up lol ''The UK is nowhere near a dictatorship '' Now i now your on the wind up Tell me does Scotland have full control over all powers ? Why in the fuck should Scotland be told no you have no say in this matter when we the Scottish people didnt elect a Tory government Not blaming anything on anyone because I'm not that petty. The Scots have been voting Labour for 100 years! How many labour governments have there been? It's only 7 years ago there was a Scottish Labour PM! I'm not sure where you think I said the cuts were from the SNP? I said in an independent Scotland the cuts would be replaced by Scottish government cuts because there wouldn't be the £13bn extra money coming from the rest of the UK. Even if the money from the Barnet formula went to Scotland they would still be 5bn a year short! And if you think you live in a dictatorship you are thick. There is no secret police snatching people for sedition (you for example). No monitoring of private emails or websites (like this one). No restrictions on personal movement, employment or free time. You need to dump the paranoid little man attitude. Yeah take a wild guess what Scotland told Labour branch office to fuck off lol 100 years and Labour still havent delivered on Home Rule for Scotland remember 1995 Labour promised to ban zero hour contracts yet here in 2017 the Scottish Labour branch office think they can ban zero hour contracts eh duh its not devolved thanks to guess who yup Labour didnt want to devolve it in the Smith commission still wondering why Scotland dont vote Labour anymore ? lol Ah right thank you calling me thick now lol well done Again if Scotland is not living under a UK dictatorship as you say then we would have the power to say have an independence referendum a legally binding one without the permission from the UK government then ? Oh wait the Scottish people elected a party on a manifesto policy to have a referendum if Scotland faced being dragged out of the EU and single market and customs thats is a mandate from the Scottish people and yet we Scottish people are getting told now is not the time ok when is the time for a legally binding referendum that we have a mandate for ? Is that not democracy in action ? That's not dictatorship. That's just you stamping your foot and having a cry because the party you voted for not being big enough to do something you want it to. " Ok tell me in your opinion is that democracy in action when the people have voted to elect a party in Scotland on a manifesto policy to have a independence referendum and the people giving the elected party a mandate ? So tell me again why in the hell should our elected be asking permission to hold a legally binding referendum ? Is that not going against the voters here in Scotland after all its the will of the people ? If you dont think its a dictatorship then surely Scotland shouldnt have to ask permission to a government we Scottish people didnt vote for Lets even go back in the past did you think Scotland should have suffered the poll tax ? After all Scotland didnt vote that bitch Thatcher correct ? | |||
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" Ok tell me in your opinion is that democracy in action when the people have voted to elect a party in Scotland on a manifesto policy to have a independence referendum and the people giving the elected party a mandate ? So tell me again why in the hell should our elected be asking permission to hold a legally binding referendum ? Is that not going against the voters here in Scotland after all its the will of the people ? If you dont think its a dictatorship then surely Scotland shouldnt have to ask permission to a government we Scottish people didnt vote for Lets even go back in the past did you think Scotland should have suffered the poll tax ? After all Scotland didnt vote that bitch Thatcher correct ? " The SNP has only been elected in the regional assembly. Not the National Assembly. That is why there has to be a request. You'vr been told all this before. And nobody suffered the Pole Tax very long as it was repealed through out the UK because it was crap. | |||
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"Ok tell me in your opinion is that democracy in action when the people have voted to elect a party in Scotland on a manifesto policy to have a independence referendum and the people giving the elected party a mandate ? So tell me again why in the hell should our elected be asking permission to hold a legally binding referendum ? Is that not going against the voters here in Scotland after all its the will of the people ? If you dont think its a dictatorship then surely Scotland shouldnt have to ask permission to a government we Scottish people didnt vote for Lets even go back in the past did you think Scotland should have suffered the poll tax ? After all Scotland didnt vote that bitch Thatcher correct ? " The SNP don't have a majority so they don't have a mandate. | |||
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"Ok tell me in your opinion is that democracy in action when the people have voted to elect a party in Scotland on a manifesto policy to have a independence referendum and the people giving the elected party a mandate ? So tell me again why in the hell should our elected be asking permission to hold a legally binding referendum ? Is that not going against the voters here in Scotland after all its the will of the people ? If you dont think its a dictatorship then surely Scotland shouldnt have to ask permission to a government we Scottish people didnt vote for Lets even go back in the past did you think Scotland should have suffered the poll tax ? After all Scotland didnt vote that bitch Thatcher correct ? The SNP don't have a majority so they don't have a mandate. " Ah right lets try that again then in Holyrood there is a pro indy majority and the section 30 order was debated and passed 69-59 in Holyrood there is your mandate right there Go on try and deny that was not a democratic vote in Holyrood? Remember these words from Ruth Davidson that will bite after unionist in the arse ''“You don’t get a referendum for free, you have to earn it. So if the Greens and the SNP – and the SSP or any of the other parties who’ve declared an interest in independence – get over the line and can make a coalition, make a majority, get the votes in the Parliament, then they’ll vote through a referendum, and that’s what democracy’s all about… it’s perfectly simple” | |||
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"PS If its not a dictatorship then surely Scotland government has the power to scrap the bedroom tax? No wait it doesnt reversed to Westminster the Scottish government only can mitigate it So tell me again why Tory policies should be forced onto Scotland when Scotland didnt elect the Tories into government?" Again not Dictatorship. And if you don't like vote for a mainstream party that will repeal it. | |||
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"People don't vote Labour anymore? At the last election SNP had 977,569 votes (down 476,867) Labour had 717,007 (up 15,860) Conservatives had 757,949 (up 323,852) They're not too far behing the SNP. Far more people in Scotland vote for parties other than the SNP. There's a reason so many nationalists are desperate to have another referendum so quickly and it's because they know the SNP won't have control of the Scottish parliament (with the support of the Greens) after the next elections. They see this as their only opportunity and that's leading to desperation." Wow! I'm genuinely shocked that the Conservatives got that many votes! Is it due to Ruth Davidson strong personality? Appeals to some, annoys others? And will it last to the next election? | |||
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"PS If its not a dictatorship then surely Scotland government has the power to scrap the bedroom tax? No wait it doesnt reversed to Westminster the Scottish government only can mitigate it So tell me again why Tory policies should be forced onto Scotland when Scotland didnt elect the Tories into government? Again not Dictatorship. And if you don't like vote for a mainstream party that will repeal it." Ah right so i have to vote for anyone other than SNP? Interesting So tell me who should i vote for that will scrap the bedroom tax then ? Love to hear this one Can you confirm would Scottish Labour branch office be able to scrap the bedroom tax ? I mean wouldn't that be pretty damn hard to do that even though its not devolved to Scotland? Nice try | |||
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"PS If its not a dictatorship then surely Scotland government has the power to scrap the bedroom tax? No wait it doesnt reversed to Westminster the Scottish government only can mitigate it So tell me again why Tory policies should be forced onto Scotland when Scotland didnt elect the Tories into government? Again not Dictatorship. And if you don't like vote for a mainstream party that will repeal it. Ah right so i have to vote for anyone other than SNP? Interesting So tell me who should i vote for that will scrap the bedroom tax then ? Love to hear this one Can you confirm would Scottish Labour branch office be able to scrap the bedroom tax ? I mean wouldn't that be pretty damn hard to do that even though its not devolved to Scotland? Nice try " Labour seats in Scotland count in Parliament. Labour could repeal it. But you, I and everyone else on this site can vote for who ever you like because this isn't a dictatorship. | |||
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"People don't vote Labour anymore? At the last election SNP had 977,569 votes (down 476,867) Labour had 717,007 (up 15,860) Conservatives had 757,949 (up 323,852) They're not too far behing the SNP. Far more people in Scotland vote for parties other than the SNP. There's a reason so many nationalists are desperate to have another referendum so quickly and it's because they know the SNP won't have control of the Scottish parliament (with the support of the Greens) after the next elections. They see this as their only opportunity and that's leading to desperation. Wow! I'm genuinely shocked that the Conservatives got that many votes! Is it due to Ruth Davidson strong personality? Appeals to some, annoys others? And will it last to the next election?" Conservatives stood on a very strong 'no' to another referendum platform and it paid off massively for them in terms of votes. Note also that the SNP lost 1/3 of their voters at the last election as well. | |||
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"People don't vote Labour anymore? At the last election SNP had 977,569 votes (down 476,867) Labour had 717,007 (up 15,860) Conservatives had 757,949 (up 323,852) They're not too far behing the SNP. Far more people in Scotland vote for parties other than the SNP. There's a reason so many nationalists are desperate to have another referendum so quickly and it's because they know the SNP won't have control of the Scottish parliament (with the support of the Greens) after the next elections. They see this as their only opportunity and that's leading to desperation. Wow! I'm genuinely shocked that the Conservatives got that many votes! Is it due to Ruth Davidson strong personality? Appeals to some, annoys others? And will it last to the next election? Conservatives stood on a very strong 'no' to another referendum platform and it paid off massively for them in terms of votes. Note also that the SNP lost 1/3 of their voters at the last election as well." Also to add to your final question it's difficult to tell but as things stand the SNP are making it easy for them (still prattling on about a referendum) and also by moving to the left becuase they lost a ton of voters to Corbyn's Labour. With Labour moving left and SNP trying to do the same it means they're both basically leaving the centre ground open to any other takers so the Conservatives could benefit there as well. http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/15785039.David_Torrance__Has_the_SNP_gifted_the_centre_ground_to_Davidson_s_Tories_/ | |||
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"PS If its not a dictatorship then surely Scotland government has the power to scrap the bedroom tax? No wait it doesnt reversed to Westminster the Scottish government only can mitigate it So tell me again why Tory policies should be forced onto Scotland when Scotland didnt elect the Tories into government? Again not Dictatorship. And if you don't like vote for a mainstream party that will repeal it. Ah right so i have to vote for anyone other than SNP? Interesting So tell me who should i vote for that will scrap the bedroom tax then ? Love to hear this one Can you confirm would Scottish Labour branch office be able to scrap the bedroom tax ? I mean wouldn't that be pretty damn hard to do that even though its not devolved to Scotland? Nice try Labour seats in Scotland count in Parliament. Labour could repeal it. But you, I and everyone else on this site can vote for who ever you like because this isn't a dictatorship. " Again can you confirm are you really saying Scottish Labour branch office can scrap the bedroom tax ? Again you not find that pretty weird considering its not devolved to Scotland? Like i said if Scottish Labour branch were in government in Scotland instead of the SNP right now are you honestly about to tell me Scottish Labour have the power to scrap the bedroom tax ? | |||
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