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Cheating and consent
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I saw an interesting article in the news the other day which was about a man who had consensual sex with a woman on the basis he had had the snip.
Later on he confessed he had not had the snip and was convicted of sexual assault.
Similarly a few years ago a woman had consensual sex with a man whilst wearing a blindfold. Only later to find out the man was a woman, that woman was also convicted of sexual assault.
In both cases the parties consented at the time of sex. However, under Section 74 of the sexual offenses act it specifies that...
a person consents if he or she "agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice
In both cases it was deemed that freedom to consent had been denied the victim.
Whilst there has always been a moral judgement on cheating, I wonder if cases like these are setting a legal president that will be applied in future to other relationships such as marriage or civil partnerships.
I. E. when a partner
discovers they have been consenting to sex with someone who had previously legally agreed to be monogomous.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I saw an interesting article in the news the other day which was about a man who had consensual sex with a woman on the basis he had had the snip.
Later on he confessed he had not had the snip and was convicted of sexual assault.
Similarly a few years ago a woman had consensual sex with a man whilst wearing a blindfold. Only later to find out the man was a woman, that woman was also convicted of sexual assault.
In both cases the parties consented at the time of sex. However, under Section 74 of the sexual offenses act it specifies that...
a person consents if he or she "agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice
In both cases it was deemed that freedom to consent had been denied the victim.
Whilst there has always been a moral judgement on cheating, I wonder if cases like these are setting a legal president that will be applied in future to other relationships such as marriage or civil partnerships.
I. E. when a partner
discovers they have been consenting to sex with someone who had previously legally agreed to be monogomous.
"
Can’t see it happening. Just imagine how many extra prisons they would have to build.. |
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Interesting question. While I agree it's morally wrong to deceive someone like that and deny them free choice, I'm not sure it would constituents sexual assault. That being said, I have no legal training or experience so what do I know  |
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"
Can’t see it happening. Just imagine how many extra prisons they would have to build.."
I know what you mean, but if the case has already been made then it maybe difficult to deny similar cases.
Also 30 years ago I'm sure some would never have considered touching a colleagues leg or squeezing their ass or passing a sexual comment as a legal offense.
But times move on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I saw an interesting article in the news the other day which was about a man who had consensual sex with a woman on the basis he had had the snip.
Later on he confessed he had not had the snip and was convicted of sexual assault.
Similarly a few years ago a woman had consensual sex with a man whilst wearing a blindfold. Only later to find out the man was a woman, that woman was also convicted of sexual assault.
In both cases the parties consented at the time of sex. However, under Section 74 of the sexual offenses act it specifies that...
a person consents if he or she "agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice
In both cases it was deemed that freedom to consent had been denied the victim.
Whilst there has always been a moral judgement on cheating, I wonder if cases like these are setting a legal president that will be applied in future to other relationships such as marriage or civil partnerships.
I. E. when a partner
discovers they have been consenting to sex with someone who had previously legally agreed to be monogomous.
"
Non consensual sex in marriage until recently was not considered a crime under the law - it is now |
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"Non consensual sex in marriage until recently was not considered a crime under the law - it is now"
Surely that just refers to the two married people? Also: who ever made marriage a get-out for sexual assault?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I saw an interesting article in the news the other day which was about a man who had consensual sex with a woman on the basis he had had the snip.
Later on he confessed he had not had the snip and was convicted of sexual assault.
Similarly a few years ago a woman had consensual sex with a man whilst wearing a blindfold. Only later to find out the man was a woman, that woman was also convicted of sexual assault.
In both cases the parties consented at the time of sex. However, under Section 74 of the sexual offenses act it specifies that...
a person consents if he or she "agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice
In both cases it was deemed that freedom to consent had been denied the victim.
Whilst there has always been a moral judgement on cheating, I wonder if cases like these are setting a legal president that will be applied in future to other relationships such as marriage or civil partnerships.
I. E. when a partner
discovers they have been consenting to sex with someone who had previously legally agreed to be monogomous.
Non consensual sex in marriage until recently was not considered a crime under the law - it is now"
In-Fidelity/Cheating is not considered a crime under the law nor is it likely to anytime soon
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Non consensual sex in marriage until recently was not considered a crime under the law - it is now
Surely that just refers to the two married people? Also: who ever made marriage a get-out for sexual assault? "
The comment was in reference to no consensual sex "in" a marriage. No Consensual sex outside marriage has been crime for much longer.
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"
In-Fidelity/Cheating is not considered a crime under the law nor is it likely to anytime soon
"
Its not about cheating, its about the ability to consent freeely. Can you consent freely if you are being deceived?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
In-Fidelity/Cheating is not considered a crime under the law nor is it likely to anytime soon
Its not about cheating, its about the ability to consent freeely. Can you consent freely if you are being deceived?
"
Then the plaintiff would have to prove that they were deceived. If it was consensual sex between both parties the only argument would be "I only agreed consensual sex with the other party because I believed the other party was single" but is that a valid argument? cos the actual sex was consensual. Have to prove intent to deceive just for the purpose of gaining sex. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
In-Fidelity/Cheating is not considered a crime under the law nor is it likely to anytime soon
Its not about cheating, its about the ability to consent freeely. Can you consent freely if you are being deceived?
"
I think you’re consenting to whatever act you are doing at the time regardless of what happened before or what might happen. You can’t just change your mind afterwards and claim assault! Would I trust a man who said yes I’ve had a vasectomy? No of course I wouldn’t. Would I have sex with a blindfold on without even seeing the person? No I bloody wouldn’t!! If someone is going to take risks like that and make decisions like that then more fool them. |
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"Were both these cases in this country? I find that hard to believe that either would stand up in court. "
The male one definitely is as was this week... there is more to the story and he’s actually been convicted of r*pe, the only part his legal team are appealing is his deceit on his vasectomy. |
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"I saw an interesting article in the news the other day which was about a man who had consensual sex with a woman on the basis he had had the snip.
Later on he confessed he had not had the snip and was convicted of sexual assault.
Similarly a few years ago a woman had consensual sex with a man whilst wearing a blindfold. Only later to find out the man was a woman, that woman was also convicted of sexual assault.
In both cases the parties consented at the time of sex. However, under Section 74 of the sexual offenses act it specifies that...
a person consents if he or she "agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice
In both cases it was deemed that freedom to consent had been denied the victim.
Whilst there has always been a moral judgement on cheating, I wonder if cases like these are setting a legal president that will be applied in future to other relationships such as marriage or civil partnerships.
I. E. when a partner
discovers they have been consenting to sex with someone who had previously legally agreed to be monogomous.
"
absolutely... they didnt have all of the correct information to make an informed choice... so yep... sexual assault... because had they known the absolute truth they may.not have made the same decision. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Were both these cases in this country? I find that hard to believe that either would stand up in court.
The male one definitely is as was this week... there is more to the story and he’s actually been convicted of r*pe, the only part his legal team are appealing is his deceit on his vasectomy. "
I was thinking there must be more to it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I worry about the implications of this. Suppose you consent on the basis that someone tells you they are a nice guy/looking for more than a one off, but then find out they are a bit of a bastard/or a cad.
What then? |
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"Were both these cases in this country? I find that hard to believe that either would stand up in court.
The male one definitely is as was this week... there is more to the story and he’s actually been convicted of r*pe, the only part his legal team are appealing is his deceit on his vasectomy. "
The one with the woman pretending to be a man was too. I remember reading about it. They were friends or colleagues in real life and she always hid her face when they met by wearing hoodies and scalves. I remember wondering how the other woman didn't think the whole thing was really weird. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I worry about the implications of this. Suppose you consent on the basis that someone tells you they are a nice guy/looking for more than a one off, but then find out they are a bit of a bastard/or a cad.
What then?"
Exactly. It will just get ridiculous! Like everything else is in this county  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I worry about the implications of this. Suppose you consent on the basis that someone tells you they are a nice guy/looking for more than a one off, but then find out they are a bit of a bastard/or a cad.
What then?
Exactly. It will just get ridiculous! Like everything else is in this county "
Country |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I saw an interesting article in the news the other day which was about a man who had consensual sex with a woman on the basis he had had the snip.
Later on he confessed he had not had the snip and was convicted of sexual assault.
Similarly a few years ago a woman had consensual sex with a man whilst wearing a blindfold. Only later to find out the man was a woman, that woman was also convicted of sexual assault.
In both cases the parties consented at the time of sex. However, under Section 74 of the sexual offenses act it specifies that...
a person consents if he or she "agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice
In both cases it was deemed that freedom to consent had been denied the victim.
absolutely... they didnt have all of the correct information to make an informed choice... so yep... sexual assault... because had they known the absolute truth they may.not have made the same decision. "
This is how I see it.
If the answer would have been no, and the person knew that so they intentionally deceived to get their desired outcome then consent and informed choice has been taken from them, it's void.
P |
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"Were both these cases in this country? I find that hard to believe that either would stand up in court.
The male one definitely is as was this week... there is more to the story and he’s actually been convicted of r*pe, the only part his legal team are appealing is his deceit on his vasectomy.
The one with the woman pretending to be a man was too. I remember reading about it. They were friends or colleagues in real life and she always hid her face when they met by wearing hoodies and scalves. I remember wondering how the other woman didn't think the whole thing was really weird."
I think I remember that too, weren't they in some kind of relationship too? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I worry about the implications of this. Suppose you consent on the basis that someone tells you they are a nice guy/looking for more than a one off, but then find out they are a bit of a bastard/or a cad.
What then?
Exactly. It will just get ridiculous! Like everything else is in this county "
Absolute minefield. Pre-fuck, 'of course I love you'. Post fuck, 'I don't love you, I just wanted a fuck'......a criminal act? |
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"Were both these cases in this country? I find that hard to believe that either would stand up in court.
The male one definitely is as was this week... there is more to the story and he’s actually been convicted of r*pe, the only part his legal team are appealing is his deceit on his vasectomy.
The one with the woman pretending to be a man was too. I remember reading about it. They were friends or colleagues in real life and she always hid her face when they met by wearing hoodies and scalves. I remember wondering how the other woman didn't think the whole thing was really weird.
I think I remember that too, weren't they in some kind of relationship too? "
I've just found the news articles. It actually happened near where I was living at the time. Apparently it happened over a space of 2 years! The other woman said she agrees to wear a blindfold at all times as he said he was undergoing cancer treatment and self conscious about his appearance. This included while watching TV, on cat journeys and while sunbathing. All very strange. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I worry about the implications of this. Suppose you consent on the basis that someone tells you they are a nice guy/looking for more than a one off, but then find out they are a bit of a bastard/or a cad.
What then?
Exactly. It will just get ridiculous! Like everything else is in this county
Absolute minefield. Pre-fuck, 'of course I love you'. Post fuck, 'I don't love you, I just wanted a fuck'......a criminal act?"
I’m so glad I’m not a man in this day and age!
There must be more to both of those situations. No way would either of those stand up in court just for that. |
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"Were both these cases in this country? I find that hard to believe that either would stand up in court.
The male one definitely is as was this week... there is more to the story and he’s actually been convicted of r*pe, the only part his legal team are appealing is his deceit on his vasectomy.
The one with the woman pretending to be a man was too. I remember reading about it. They were friends or colleagues in real life and she always hid her face when they met by wearing hoodies and scalves. I remember wondering how the other woman didn't think the whole thing was really weird.
I think I remember that too, weren't they in some kind of relationship too?
I've just found the news articles. It actually happened near where I was living at the time. Apparently it happened over a space of 2 years! The other woman said she agrees to wear a blindfold at all times as he said he was undergoing cancer treatment and self conscious about his appearance. This included while watching TV, on cat journeys and while sunbathing. All very strange."
Nope, looks fine to me. Sounds like a perfectly normal relationship with not a single red flag in sight...  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Were both these cases in this country? I find that hard to believe that either would stand up in court.
The male one definitely is as was this week... there is more to the story and he’s actually been convicted of r*pe, the only part his legal team are appealing is his deceit on his vasectomy.
The one with the woman pretending to be a man was too. I remember reading about it. They were friends or colleagues in real life and she always hid her face when they met by wearing hoodies and scalves. I remember wondering how the other woman didn't think the whole thing was really weird.
I think I remember that too, weren't they in some kind of relationship too?
I've just found the news articles. It actually happened near where I was living at the time. Apparently it happened over a space of 2 years! The other woman said she agrees to wear a blindfold at all times as he said he was undergoing cancer treatment and self conscious about his appearance. This included while watching TV, on cat journeys and while sunbathing. All very strange.
Nope, looks fine to me. Sounds like a perfectly normal relationship with not a single red flag in sight... "
. They must have been on fab!  |
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I think it is a new age of consent.
Just because things were legal in the past does not make them legal for every day there after.
Lines of what is legally acceptable are always shifting.
There are no absolutes.
If you consented to a financial partnership and found out that you had been deceived, no one would argue that you consented at the time so tough.
So I can see the equivalent arguments being used for sexual relationships.
Its now accepted that you can't consent whilst d*unk, so things change. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ok, different stance.
You have your selection criteria before you consent.
Lets say you're super selective and ask a question that I'm willing to bet many of us have never asked... but maybe should.
Are you on a sex offenders register?
They lie and say no.
You find out afterwards that they lied.
I'm sure you'd then FEEL like you'd been taken advantage of and sexually assaulted even though it had no impact on the time you spent together. You had a right jolly time and both parties left smiling.
Would you still be smiling knowing you'd been deceived by a sex offender? Or would you be chucking your guts up and feeling dirty and wanting them to pay for what they did, tricking you into having sex with them.
P |
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"Ok, different stance.
You have your selection criteria before you consent.
Lets say you're super selective and ask a question that I'm willing to bet many of us have never asked... but maybe should.
Are you on a sex offenders register?
They lie and say no.
You find out afterwards that they lied.
I'm sure you'd then FEEL like you'd been taken advantage of and sexually assaulted even though it had no impact on the time you spent together. You had a right jolly time and both parties left smiling.
Would you still be smiling knowing you'd been deceived by a sex offender? Or would you be chucking your guts up and feeling dirty and wanting them to pay for what they did, tricking you into having sex with them.
P"
You’d be scarred as fuck for a very long time... nail on head  |
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I think there needs to be a level of common sense here. There is a huge difference to say consent based on the proviso that the male has had the snip compared to say concent based on a person's hair colour being their natural hair colour.
The first two examples, I think most people would say fair enough. But do we go to criminal court to try a serious criminal offence with serious sentencing repercussions over smaller white lies? If so I would suspect most men and women are sex offenders. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok, different stance.
You have your selection criteria before you consent.
Lets say you're super selective and ask a question that I'm willing to bet many of us have never asked... but maybe should.
Are you on a sex offenders register?
They lie and say no.
You find out afterwards that they lied.
I'm sure you'd then FEEL like you'd been taken advantage of and sexually assaulted even though it had no impact on the time you spent together. You had a right jolly time and both parties left smiling.
Would you still be smiling knowing you'd been deceived by a sex offender? Or would you be chucking your guts up and feeling dirty and wanting them to pay for what they did, tricking you into having sex with them.
P
You’d be scarred as fuck for a very long time... nail on head "
I agree. And even worse a paedophile! But I still don’t think it would hold up as sexual assault. I’m not saying it should or it shouldn’t but yeah it would scar you seriously! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think it is a new age of consent.
Just because things were legal in the past does not make them legal for every day there after.
Lines of what is legally acceptable are always shifting.
There are no absolutes.
If you consented to a financial partnership and found out that you had been deceived, no one would argue that you consented at the time so tough.
So I can see the equivalent arguments being used for sexual relationships.
Its now accepted that you can't consent whilst d*unk, so things change. "
I agree. Just don't know how they will police it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think there needs to be a level of common sense here. There is a huge difference to say consent based on the proviso that the male has had the snip compared to say concent based on a person's hair colour being their natural hair colour.
The first two examples, I think most people would say fair enough. But do we go to criminal court to try a serious criminal offence with serious sentencing repercussions over smaller white lies? If so I would suspect most men and women are sex offenders."
So who gets to decide which lies are acceptable?
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"Ok, different stance.
You have your selection criteria before you consent.
Lets say you're super selective and ask a question that I'm willing to bet many of us have never asked... but maybe should.
Are you on a sex offenders register?
They lie and say no.
You find out afterwards that they lied.
I'm sure you'd then FEEL like you'd been taken advantage of and sexually assaulted even though it had no impact on the time you spent together. You had a right jolly time and both parties left smiling.
Would you still be smiling knowing you'd been deceived by a sex offender? Or would you be chucking your guts up and feeling dirty and wanting them to pay for what they did, tricking you into having sex with them.
P
You’d be scarred as fuck for a very long time... nail on head
I agree. And even worse a paedophile! But I still don’t think it would hold up as sexual assault. I’m not saying it should or it shouldn’t but yeah it would scar you seriously!"
Most likely wouldn’t.. as a partner or family member you don’t even have a right to information that could keep you and loved ones safe.. the laws twisted. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think it is a new age of consent.
Just because things were legal in the past does not make them legal for every day there after.
Lines of what is legally acceptable are always shifting.
There are no absolutes.
If you consented to a financial partnership and found out that you had been deceived, no one would argue that you consented at the time so tough.
So I can see the equivalent arguments being used for sexual relationships.
Its now accepted that you can't consent whilst d*unk, so things change.
I agree. Just don't know how they will police it. "
That's a big ? And as the scope become wider it can only get more difficult |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok, different stance.
You have your selection criteria before you consent.
Lets say you're super selective and ask a question that I'm willing to bet many of us have never asked... but maybe should.
Are you on a sex offenders register?
They lie and say no.
You find out afterwards that they lied.
I'm sure you'd then FEEL like you'd been taken advantage of and sexually assaulted even though it had no impact on the time you spent together. You had a right jolly time and both parties left smiling.
Would you still be smiling knowing you'd been deceived by a sex offender? Or would you be chucking your guts up and feeling dirty and wanting them to pay for what they did, tricking you into having sex with them.
P
You’d be scarred as fuck for a very long time... nail on head
I agree. And even worse a paedophile! But I still don’t think it would hold up as sexual assault. I’m not saying it should or it shouldn’t but yeah it would scar you seriously!
Most likely wouldn’t.. as a partner or family member you don’t even have a right to information that could keep you and loved ones safe.. the laws twisted."
It sure is. |
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"I think there needs to be a level of common sense here. There is a huge difference to say consent based on the proviso that the male has had the snip compared to say concent based on a person's hair colour being their natural hair colour.
The first two examples, I think most people would say fair enough. But do we go to criminal court to try a serious criminal offence with serious sentencing repercussions over smaller white lies? If so I would suspect most men and women are sex offenders.
So who gets to decide which lies are acceptable?
"
Well that's the billion dollar question? Do we need a line somewhere or does any kind of disclosure or lie count as making something non consensual that should thus be tried as a serious sexual offence? |
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"I think there needs to be a level of common sense here. There is a huge difference to say consent based on the proviso that the male has had the snip compared to say concent based on a person's hair colour being their natural hair colour.
The first two examples, I think most people would say fair enough. But do we go to criminal court to try a serious criminal offence with serious sentencing repercussions over smaller white lies? If so I would suspect most men and women are sex offenders.
So who gets to decide which lies are acceptable?
Well that's the billion dollar question? Do we need a line somewhere or does any kind of disclosure or lie count as making something non consensual that should thus be tried as a serious sexual offence?"
Okay what if by having an affair the partner passes an std on to their life partner? Could you maintain that it was still consent?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think there needs to be a level of common sense here. There is a huge difference to say consent based on the proviso that the male has had the snip compared to say concent based on a person's hair colour being their natural hair colour.
The first two examples, I think most people would say fair enough. But do we go to criminal court to try a serious criminal offence with serious sentencing repercussions over smaller white lies? If so I would suspect most men and women are sex offenders.
So who gets to decide which lies are acceptable?
Well that's the billion dollar question? Do we need a line somewhere or does any kind of disclosure or lie count as making something non consensual that should thus be tried as a serious sexual offence?
Okay what if by having an affair the partner passes an std on to their life partner? Could you maintain that it was still consent?
"
Consensual between who? The person they had an affair with, that they didn't disclose they had an STD? |
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"Adultery used to be illegal.
Women used to get stoned to death for committing it!! Men on the other hand......"
Yep so again not unprecedented.
Also seems the beeb have been watching this thread.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49127545 |
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