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Fare dodging student!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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go on youtube and see, need more conductors on trains is a fact and at stations again. id make the out of work do the job on minimum wage as we throw millions at the network and loads dont pay!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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altho i agree the guy was wrong to get on the train with no ticket,,,im not too sure the guy should have got involved..why didnt the inspecter not call the police?
he would have prob got of at the next station..the guy that threw him off had no right to man handle him ,,,the guy could have pulled a blade or anything,,,or the young guy could have had learning difficulties? would you have liked your teenage son stranded on a platform with no money or phone??
im not sayn he was ...all im sayn is think the train guy should have done his job and no one else?
auds xx  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"go on youtube and see, need more conductors on trains is a fact and at stations again. id make the out of work do the job on minimum wage as we throw millions at the network and loads dont pay!!"
Ahem how have you got time to post?
Shouldn't you be saving the UK's economy? |
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"altho i agree the guy was wrong to get on the train with no ticket,,,im not too sure the guy should have got involved..why didnt the inspecter not call the police?
he would have prob got of at the next station..the guy that threw him off had no right to man handle him ,,,the guy could have pulled a blade or anything,,,or the young guy could have had learning difficulties? would you have liked your teenage son stranded on a platform with no money or phone??
im not sayn he was ...all im sayn is think the train guy should have done his job and no one else?
auds xx "
tend to agree, it could have turned out badly had the fare dodger stabbed him..
if it was a case of stepping in to prevent someone being attacked then thats a different thing..
let the train carry on and have the BTP waiting, they are there to do just that.. |
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I must agree with Surrey on this, the student was not being aggresive toward the conductor so it would have been wiser to have let him travel into the arms of the transport police and let them deal with it.
Had he been aggresive toward the conductor thats a different matter. |
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"I must agree with Surrey on this, the student was not being aggresive toward the conductor so it would have been wiser to have let him travel into the arms of the transport police and let them deal with it.
Had he been aggresive toward the conductor thats a different matter."
swearing at the conductor aint abusive towards him then?
remeber we have only seen a few minutes of the incident not what went on before it got angry, it could be the conductor asked reasonable questions, offered a way out then it got nasty.
also on the vid its clear the guy who removed the guy from the train asks the conductor if he needs heklp removing him, conductor said yes, that makes scotrail liable as that guy is now acting as an agent of theirs
also lets reverse it,
argument develops between passenger and conductor, passenger pulls a knife, amd stabs conductor, all over passengers sit and watch, they would all be slated for not trying to intervene.
in either case, no one apart from those theer have the right to comment on this matter noone of us know the full story
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By *ottyhunk OP Couple
over a year ago
Leyburn |
If you hear the account from the guy who filmed the incident, Ian Hems, he said that there was five minutes of verbal abuse from the student prior to him starting to film.
There were children very close by having to listen to this verbal abuse so I feel Mr Pollock did the right thing.
Too many students in this country feel they are exempt from the law that most of us want to abide by. The train did quite rightly proceed with FULL fare paying passengers. If the student chose to not pay then he has to take shanky's pony! |
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"If you hear the account from the guy who filmed the incident, Ian Hems, he said that there was five minutes of verbal abuse from the student prior to him starting to film.
There were children very close by having to listen to this verbal abuse so I feel Mr Pollock did the right thing.
Too many students in this country feel they are exempt from the law that most of us want to abide by. The train did quite rightly proceed with FULL fare paying passengers. If the student chose to not pay then he has to take shanky's pony!"
Whoa..
one 'student' does this and 'too many feel they are exempt from the law'??
where on earth do you have any evidence to support that!
there are many students working hard and living within the law, one scroat who was wrong does not condemn all others..
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By *ottyhunk OP Couple
over a year ago
Leyburn |
" no one apart from those theer have the right to comment on this matter noone of us know the full story
taking that as a 'rule' would be the end of 95% ish of the forums m8..
Absolutely, which is why these forums exist, just to give one persons perspective on a given matter.
No individual is right, its just an opinion
"
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"I must agree with Surrey on this, the student was not being aggresive toward the conductor so it would have been wiser to have let him travel into the arms of the transport police and let them deal with it.
Had he been aggresive toward the conductor thats a different matter.
swearing at the conductor aint abusive towards him then?
remeber we have only seen a few minutes of the incident not what went on before it got angry, it could be the conductor asked reasonable questions, offered a way out then it got nasty.
also on the vid its clear the guy who removed the guy from the train asks the conductor if he needs heklp removing him, conductor said yes, that makes scotrail liable as that guy is now acting as an agent of theirs
also lets reverse it,
argument develops between passenger and conductor, passenger pulls a knife, amd stabs conductor, all over passengers sit and watch, they would all be slated for not trying to intervene.
in either case, no one apart from those theer have the right to comment on this matter noone of us know the full story
"
The word I used was aggresive. Plus having worked in the catering industry including train companies, I do know a little about handling situations such as this. Let him travel into the arms of those paid to deal with these incidents.  |
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By *ottyhunk OP Couple
over a year ago
Leyburn |
"If you hear the account from the guy who filmed the incident, Ian Hems, he said that there was five minutes of verbal abuse from the student prior to him starting to film.
There were children very close by having to listen to this verbal abuse so I feel Mr Pollock did the right thing.
Too many students in this country feel they are exempt from the law that most of us want to abide by. The train did quite rightly proceed with FULL fare paying passengers. If the student chose to not pay then he has to take shanky's pony!
Whoa..
one 'student' does this and 'too many feel they are exempt from the law'??
where on earth do you have any evidence to support that!
there are many students working hard and living within the law, one scroat who was wrong does not condemn all others..
"
Evidence is from the press |
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"If you hear the account from the guy who filmed the incident, Ian Hems, he said that there was five minutes of verbal abuse from the student prior to him starting to film.
There were children very close by having to listen to this verbal abuse so I feel Mr Pollock did the right thing.
Too many students in this country feel they are exempt from the law that most of us want to abide by. The train did quite rightly proceed with FULL fare paying passengers. If the student chose to not pay then he has to take shanky's pony!
Whoa..
one 'student' does this and 'too many feel they are exempt from the law'??
where on earth do you have any evidence to support that!
there are many students working hard and living within the law, one scroat who was wrong does not condemn all others..
Evidence is from the press"
oh please..
you surely have a better one than that old chestnut...
where??
think about your initial point, what your saying is one particular person is wrong (in this case a student) so therefore lots of others ie. a majority are the same...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you hear the account from the guy who filmed the incident, Ian Hems, he said that there was five minutes of verbal abuse from the student prior to him starting to film.
There were children very close by having to listen to this verbal abuse so I feel Mr Pollock did the right thing.
Too many students in this country feel they are exempt from the law that most of us want to abide by. The train did quite rightly proceed with FULL fare paying passengers. If the student chose to not pay then he has to take shanky's pony!"
Too many students? how patronsing!
Too many people full stop.
Been in that position with regards to the train not leaving a station becuase of assholes on trains, swearing being abusive etc.. it's very frustrating, and can lead to violence from other upset passengers!
The conductor was in the wrong too. Should never have asked the "big guy" to chuck him off. They are official procedures to play by.
Either the conductor should have phoned down the line to get the BTP or local police to get the kid off at the next station, so the train can get moving or instantly got BTP or local police involved.
It wasn't the right thing to do.. but in the circumstances, the "big guy" done well.
Ive seen that happen on many occasions - this has only hit the headlines because someones recorded it and stuck it on youtube probably.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The train was at the station, and the conductor had been dealing with the fare dodger for over 10 mins, and the train wouldn't go...
If he was 'special' in some way, someone who thinks he is 'special' let him down. But according to articles he is just a student who tried to get a free ride...
The passengers were getting fed up with it and the big man did what he though was right, and good show too.
The fare dodger has no shame or morals as he was quite happy to argue the toss about his ticket, to the inconvenient of the whole train...
Next time someone moans about delayed trains, this could be one of the many reasons...
Will be following the story to see which principles or morals match with the law, if it comes to that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Simple question..was the man's action proportionate to the alleged offence?
The kids face is a mess.
My son is in The BTP and said that had they been called and arrived during or shortly after the ejection from the train the kid would probably have got a spot fine (if it was the case that he had no ticket,something he is refuting). The other bloke would have been on an assault charge. Having just watched the video I'm hardly surprised,it was robust to say the least |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i witnessed a security guard getting set about by 2 ne'er do wells in asda the other week.
i was pleased to see that when it came to threats being made and with things turning physical, some of the lads on the tills left their posts and assisted the security lad
there were a couple of customers eager to 'wade in' too but the staff advised them not to get involved - which was also good to see
all that was over not having ID to prove they were of age to buy alcohol ! |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
Surely there must be a procedure to follow for the guard and not to accept help from a man to literally throw the lad off the train, not once, but three times.
The second time he threw him it looked like the lad landed on his back, it is just as well the lad didn't bang his head on the platform or the " big man" might have been arrested by now for something much worse than assault.....although as he assaulted the lad, I am not sure why he hasn't been arrested.
If the lad had no ticket and was being an arse, let the TP deal with it...as I am sure they walked have walked him off the train rather than literally throw him off. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Vigilante justice is usualy wrong and since no one was being threatened the vigilante should be prosecuted for assault at the very least.
I have to travel on the trains every day and they are rarely on time. For journeys of less than 1 hour a 30 minute delay is not eligable for compensation, so I dodge as many fares as I can in recompense for the apauling service I recieve as a consumer.
If the train opperators ran their businesses in favour of the consumer rather than the share holders and their staff were less rude then I would consider paying for every journey.....
That having been said, its usualy the local services which are very poor, x country trains are invariably very good on the West Coast Mainline, but only because these TOCs are fined for running late.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"altho i agree the guy was wrong to get on the train with no ticket,,,im not too sure the guy should have got involved..why didnt the inspecter not call the police?
he would have prob got of at the next station..the guy that threw him off had no right to man handle him ,,,the guy could have pulled a blade or anything,,,or the young guy could have had learning difficulties? would you have liked your teenage son stranded on a platform with no money or phone??
im not sayn he was ...all im sayn is think the train guy should have done his job and no one else?
auds xx "
i'm with auds
can't be arsed to type what i think as i'm exhausted from argueing it on another site
it should of been handled much better |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Northants |
Good god! Some people on Fab never cease to amaze me! Here we have an abusive and surely student who probably thinks the world owes him a living! There is a train full of passengers, some of whom have connections to catch. The little arse has been caught bang to rights and refuses to give his details, so the guard did the right thing. He insisted he left the train.
OK, he didn’t want to leave the train and started getting abusive. You really think the guard should back down and let him travel? What message does that send to others? BTP? Yeah sure, they are really going to rush to a station to catch a fare dodger! Just like the Police won’t come out if your car is stolen or any number of other crimes are committed!
The big guy was a welcome relief from all the namby “don’t want to get involved” people there are about. I’m sure if some on here had their way, they’d give the little shite compensation!
Until we start enforcing the “little” laws, we have no hope in teaching our children to respect the “bigger” laws. I would wager that those of you who have well behaved kids have never let them drop litter or swear at people!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" The little arse has been caught bang to rights
lol! love that..... yeah gotta say 'fuck 'im'
 "
unless,as he claims, he bought a ticket but was given the wrong ones |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Good god! Some people on Fab never cease to amaze me! Here we have an abusive and surely student who probably thinks the world owes him a living! There is a train full of passengers, some of whom have connections to catch. The little arse has been caught bang to rights and refuses to give his details, so the guard did the right thing. He insisted he left the train.
OK, he didn’t want to leave the train and started getting abusive. You really think the guard should back down and let him travel? What message does that send to others? BTP? Yeah sure, they are really going to rush to a station to catch a fare dodger! Just like the Police won’t come out if your car is stolen or any number of other crimes are committed!
The big guy was a welcome relief from all the namby “don’t want to get involved” people there are about. I’m sure if some on here had their way, they’d give the little shite compensation!
Until we start enforcing the “little” laws, we have no hope in teaching our children to respect the “bigger” laws. I would wager that those of you who have well behaved kids have never let them drop litter or swear at people!
"
I disagree entirely.....
During the 90's there was a big uproar about Paedophies. In a town in South Wales a childrens health centre was burned down as it was called. Paedeotrician cinic. There are some exceptions but vigilante justice is usualy stupid justice.
And my parents did not need everyone else to obey the little laws to teach me to do so. |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Northants |
"I disagree entirely.....
During the 90's there was a big uproar about Paedophies. In a town in South Wales a childrens health centre was burned down as it was called. Paedeotrician cinic. There are some exceptions but vigilante justice is usualy stupid justice.
And my parents did not need everyone else to obey the little laws to teach me to do so."
You have almost made my point for me about the "little laws". If each parent did what your and my parents did, society would be a kinder place!.
On your other point, I fail to see what tie up there is in vigilante justice and what this guy did! He was not being a vigilante, he was in my opinion being a good citizen, standing up for what is right and helping those not strong enough to do the same!
No, there is a whole world of difference between setting fire to any building and doing what this guy did! OK, I will admit that it might be possible for someone to overstep that mark, but in this case, the guy was right! |
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"I must agree with Surrey on this, the student was not being aggresive toward the conductor so it would have been wiser to have let him travel into the arms of the transport police and let them deal with it.
Had he been aggresive toward the conductor thats a different matter."
Apparently the student was being abusive and swearing for about 5 minutes before the guy started filming. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I disagree entirely.....
During the 90's there was a big uproar about Paedophies. In a town in South Wales a childrens health centre was burned down as it was called. Paedeotrician cinic. There are some exceptions but vigilante justice is usualy stupid justice.
And my parents did not need everyone else to obey the little laws to teach me to do so.
You have almost made my point for me about the "little laws". If each parent did what your and my parents did, society would be a kinder place!.
On your other point, I fail to see what tie up there is in vigilante justice and what this guy did! He was not being a vigilante, he was in my opinion being a good citizen, standing up for what is right and helping those not strong enough to do the same!
No, there is a whole world of difference between setting fire to any building and doing what this guy did! OK, I will admit that it might be possible for someone to overstep that mark, but in this case, the guy was right!"
Well made points, but the guy was heavy handed (did you see the students face) and should be charged for assault!
At the time of posting I did not know that the train had been dealayed while the train manager (they arent called conductors anymore as part of the general trend towards deskilling staff) checked the tickets. What was the bloke doing checking tickets at the station? At stations his job is to control opening and closing the train doors! |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"Good god! Some people on Fab never cease to amaze me! Here we have an abusive and surely student who probably thinks the world owes him a living! There is a train full of passengers, some of whom have connections to catch. The little arse has been caught bang to rights and refuses to give his details, so the guard did the right thing. He insisted he left the train.
OK, he didn’t want to leave the train and started getting abusive. You really think the guard should back down and let him travel? What message does that send to others? BTP? Yeah sure, they are really going to rush to a station to catch a fare dodger! Just like the Police won’t come out if your car is stolen or any number of other crimes are committed!
"
I don't think anyone said the man should have been able to get away with what he did. If the lad was an arse and no ticket let the proper authorities deal with him.
I was on a train last year when a d*unken man starting arguing with the guard, the guard walked away.
At the next station there were two TP waiting to escort the man off the train.
I am guessing that is normal procedure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Earlier this year I was catching a train, quite lawfully with my bike. It can be a pain in the arse using trains for part of a journey with a bike so I know the policy of any operator. I was stopped from travelling, I was threatened with arrest, and at the point that i was backed against a wall by 5 staff I felt physically scared. They were wrong, I was right. They could not quote let alone show me the regulations they were enforcing. BTP intervened and defused the situation, I left the station and rode to the next one as the staff wouldn't back down.
The ticket machines at mystation sell off peak tickets at peak times (something that most machine don;t do) meaning it is easy to inadvertantly travel on incorrect ticket.
I am sure we have all encountered over zealous parking wardens?
I have no idea if the student is telling the truth and his reaction is hardly blameless but some people get given a uniform and think they are god almighty.
The "big man" should be charged for assault, the ticket collector, who almost certainly didn;t follow procedure and authorised the man's involveent I would hope is already suspended pending his disciplinary.
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Northants |
I despair for the fate of this country. So many apologists for wrongdoers on this site… He didn’t have a ticket at all in the reports I have seen and at the time he is said to have admitted it! It was only after getting his 15 minutes of fame that he changed his story.
It matters not what his personal circumstances are. He boarded a train without a ticket. He was caught without a ticket. He refused to give the guard his details. He refused to leave the train. He held up all the other passengers. But hang on.. perhaps he had a bad childhood. I know, lets let him get away with it, eh? Bet that would have pleased all those who have to pay thousands a year for season tickets.
He was in the wrong! He was the one swearing! He was the one refusing to get off the train! The guard is totally within his rights to hold a train if he believes that a passenger is disruptive. He has a duty of care to all the other passengers on board that train. This Student who couldn’t afford a ticket, had been drinking, who knows what may have happened!
I can tell you that the BTP do not travel to arrest fare dodgers. It would cost way too much money to send two police officers to recover a few pounds. My brother, who is a senior manager for the Eastern Region tells me that they are way too busy now trying to stop or catch metal thieves to worry about fare dodgers…
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By *eaboMan
over a year ago
marden |
i remember the days of my youth when if we were out of order any passing member of the public would intervene, tell us off, warn us they knew our parents and generally keep us in line. this along with the legendary clip around the ear from a copper or teacher kept kids in line, so it seemed.
nowadays you can apparently do what the hell you like and anyone who stands up for themselves, common decency or the belief that we all have to obey the same rules is pilloried.
how the hell did society end up with the rights of the wrongdoers being more important than anyone else's.
a big up to the big man and maybe if we weren't so quick to condemn those who put their heads above the parapets we wouldn't have so much petty crime from people who believe they should be allowed to do what they like. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I must agree with Surrey on this, the student was not being aggresive toward the conductor so it would have been wiser to have let him travel into the arms of the transport police and let them deal with it.
Had he been aggresive toward the conductor thats a different matter.
swearing at the conductor aint abusive towards him then?
remeber we have only seen a few minutes of the incident not what went on before it got angry, it could be the conductor asked reasonable questions, offered a way out then it got nasty.
also on the vid its clear the guy who removed the guy from the train asks the conductor if he needs heklp removing him, conductor said yes, that makes scotrail liable as that guy is now acting as an agent of theirs
also lets reverse it,
argument develops between passenger and conductor, passenger pulls a knife, amd stabs conductor, all over passengers sit and watch, they would all be slated for not trying to intervene.
in either case, no one apart from those theer have the right to comment on this matter noone of us know the full story
"
thread could have ended there then. surely it is a good thing to share opinions and raise awareness? |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"I despair for the fate of this country. So many apologists for wrongdoers on this site… He didn’t have a ticket at all in the reports I have seen and at the time he is said to have admitted it! It was only after getting his 15 minutes of fame that he changed his story.
It matters not what his personal circumstances are. He boarded a train without a ticket. He was caught without a ticket. He refused to give the guard his details. He refused to leave the train. He held up all the other passengers. But hang on.. perhaps he had a bad childhood. I know, lets let him get away with it, eh? Bet that would have pleased all those who have to pay thousands a year for season tickets.
He was in the wrong! He was the one swearing! He was the one refusing to get off the train! The guard is totally within his rights to hold a train if he believes that a passenger is disruptive. He has a duty of care to all the other passengers on board that train. This Student who couldn’t afford a ticket, had been drinking, who knows what may have happened!
I can tell you that the BTP do not travel to arrest fare dodgers. It would cost way too much money to send two police officers to recover a few pounds. My brother, who is a senior manager for the Eastern Region tells me that they are way too busy now trying to stop or catch metal thieves to worry about fare dodgers…
"
i think you are getting mixed up with people saying the situation could have been dealt with better and with the right people to people saying the student should have got away with his abuse and no ticket.
I don't think anyone has said that the lad should get away with what he was doing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"but dont u just hate it when u get on a train and ur near the final stop thn the conductor gets ! lol...I find it hard to lie where ive came from lol...so end up paying the whole journey lol"
aye life's a bitch someday!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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but dont u just hate it when u get on a train and ur near the final stop thsn the conductor gets U ! lol...I find it hard to lie where ive came from lol...so end up paying the whole journey lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"but dont u just hate it when u get on a train and ur near the final stop thn the conductor gets ! lol...I find it hard to lie where ive came from lol...so end up paying the whole journey lol
aye life's a bitch someday! "
Aye lol...thats a few quids worth of drink!!!!. honest alchy here!!! |
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"Good god! Some people on Fab never cease to amaze me! Here we have an abusive and surely student who probably thinks the world owes him a living! There is a train full of passengers, some of whom have connections to catch. The little arse has been caught bang to rights and refuses to give his details, so the guard did the right thing. He insisted he left the train.
OK, he didn’t want to leave the train and started getting abusive. You really think the guard should back down and let him travel? What message does that send to others? BTP? Yeah sure, they are really going to rush to a station to catch a fare dodger! Just like the Police won’t come out if your car is stolen or any number of other crimes are committed!
The big guy was a welcome relief from all the namby “don’t want to get involved” people there are about. I’m sure if some on here had their way, they’d give the little shite compensation!
Until we start enforcing the “little” laws, we have no hope in teaching our children to respect the “bigger” laws. I would wager that those of you who have well behaved kids have never let them drop litter or swear at people!
I disagree entirely.....
During the 90's there was a big uproar about Paedophies. In a town in South Wales a childrens health centre was burned down as it was called. Paedeotrician cinic. There are some exceptions but vigilante justice is usualy stupid justice.
And my parents did not need everyone else to obey the little laws to teach me to do so."
Police should uphold everylaw not just fashionable laws.
My Justce to that town would be education. Enforced reading of the dictionary cover to cover!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i dont agree with the man who got the guy off the train the inspector should have dealt with this! if he couldn't he should have called the British transport police
he was already stuck on the platform and waiting so the BTp would have been there and this wouldn't be on utube
I work for the rain industry and im ashamed that someone could get a member of the public to help him out. ( wonders if he has a job still) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Personally I think things like this should be left to the authorities, but with a slightly different methods of collecting fines.
Payment is immediate, not £5 a week, no money. Laptop, Xbox, mobile, TV, ipod on the auction Monday. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"who's to say that the student actually got the injuries from being thrown off the train??"
Have you actually watched the clip? And the force used?
To be honest, I suspect a lot of people haven't watched it. The inspector is being antagonistic, the guy has a single not a return ticket and he is speaking to him like he's shit. He describes him as a "ballbag", and the round of applause appears to be no more than 1 or 2 people and you can see more than 1 person on the train clearly not happy at what goes on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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And a slight tangeant to offset some of the shocking sweeping generalisations on here - the BBC are reporting today how students are turning to prostitution to avoid living in poverty. Students are going to be fucked over the next few years, increased fees and less scope for part time work. |
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"I despair for the fate of this country. So many apologists for wrongdoers on this site…"
Rumour, just where on this thread are the apologists?
most have been saying he was wrong if he did not have the correct ticket, however using violence to amend the situation is hardly the answer..
your relative will know about 'reasonable force'..
is it really reasonable for someone to be thrown to the floor over a train ticket?
the conductor lost control of the situation when he agreed with the 'big man' to let him move the student
the BTP was the better option, if they were available which is another issue
the fate of this country wont ever be decided by excessive force.. |
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By *ilandlarryCouple
over a year ago
more north lincs than mids! |
"who's to say that the student actually got the injuries from being thrown off the train??
Have you actually watched the clip? And the force used?
To be honest, I suspect a lot of people haven't watched it. The inspector is being antagonistic, the guy has a single not a return ticket and he is speaking to him like he's shit. He describes him as a "ballbag", and the round of applause appears to be no more than 1 or 2 people and you can see more than 1 person on the train clearly not happy at what goes on."
Yup, I did watch it. While you can see the force being used to stop the guy from re-entering the train, you cannot clearly see if he injures the guy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I despair for the fate of this country. So many apologists for wrongdoers on this site…
Rumour, just where on this thread are the apologists?
most have been saying he was wrong if he did not have the correct ticket, however using violence to amend the situation is hardly the answer..
your relative will know about 'reasonable force'..
is it really reasonable for someone to be thrown to the floor over a train ticket?
the conductor lost control of the situation when he agreed with the 'big man' to let him move the student
the BTP was the better option, if they were available which is another issue
the fate of this country wont ever be decided by excessive force.."
Aye but the naughty corner approach has been tried and it failed miserably
Corporal punishment and force was always used back in my day and boy there was nothing like there is today
Society is too soft and needs to get back to discipline and order
And if that takes force then so be it |
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"I despair for the fate of this country. So many apologists for wrongdoers on this site…
Rumour, just where on this thread are the apologists?
most have been saying he was wrong if he did not have the correct ticket, however using violence to amend the situation is hardly the answer..
your relative will know about 'reasonable force'..
is it really reasonable for someone to be thrown to the floor over a train ticket?
the conductor lost control of the situation when he agreed with the 'big man' to let him move the student
the BTP was the better option, if they were available which is another issue
the fate of this country wont ever be decided by excessive force..
Aye but the naughty corner approach has been tried and it failed miserably
Corporal punishment and force was always used back in my day and boy there was nothing like there is today
Society is too soft and needs to get back to discipline and order
And if that takes force then so be it "
Soapy m8,
crime levels pro rata population expansion etc have stayed fairly much the same over the past several decades
difference is now we have 24 hour media, we see what goes on everywhere instantly
yes we had discipline in our day, think you and i are similar ish in age.
i got clipped about the ear, also got the slipper and on one occasion got the cane and yes it did keep me in line personally
but there was also mass abuse, look at the revelations about the church etc now coming to light
agree with the discipline in society m8
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Whilst arguing a similr issue with flat mate we both agreed that the stocks should be brought back. Public humiliation is likey to stop petty theft as violence tends to breed violence.
Ian Hislop has a good quote about crime and criminality....He says that he was a prison visitor for the Howard League and spoke to an old lag who said 'prison isnt a deterent these days, back in my first strech, then it was a deterent!
Capita punishment has too many errors involved, if someone is wrongly convicted and hung and then proved inocent (see birmingham 6. as an examle) what is the recourse.
The loss of respect for those in positions of power is not going to be solved by a further devoution of authority to the citizen who, for good or ill, has little understanding of the legality of the situation.
Do people think that it is right for me to hit your children (or even tell them off) if I were to see them doing wrong? Why not? Is it because what I think is a societal ill may not be the same thing as you do (because I bet they are) ? |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Northants |
"I despair for the fate of this country. So many apologists for wrongdoers on this site…
Rumour, just where on this thread are the apologists?
your relative will know about 'reasonable force'..
is it really reasonable for someone to be thrown to the floor over a train ticket?
the BTP was the better option, if they were available which is another issue
"
Doesn't anyone read anything other than what they want to see?
I have it on very good authority (My brother who is a Senior Manager on the Eastern Region) that the Transport police do not have the manpower to deal with a fare dodger! They are having to spend way too much time on metal thefts and the like to be able to spare the time for a two bit cheat! 
As such, there would have been no one to meet him at the next or any station, ergo he would have got away with it! I would wager that is what the guy was banking on!
I said and I mean apologists on this site, perhaps not so much on this thread, but there have been many where excuses have been made for bad behaviour and this is an extension of that! Look at it this way…
Here we are collectively saying, if I understand everyone correctly that he was in the wrong to try to get away without paying. Or is it that he was wrong to get caught?? I ask that because we have one amongst us who is openly admitting to getting away with not paying for his train journeys! He thinks the railways are run badly, so he feels he doesn’t have to pay!
If the collective opinion is that the student was wrong not to buy a ticket, surely the guy who openly admitted to not buying tickets on here would have been ragged? He hasn’t been so I am of the opinion that posters on this thread think it is just wrong to get caught!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They are having to spend way too much time on metal thefts and the like to be able to spare the time for a two bit cheat!
"
Are the metal and cable thefts occuring while the trains are still running now? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I would challenge anyone to send an email via the contact us box on the BTP web site asking something to the effect that if you were involved in throwing off a fare dodger and no one complained either on the train or the platform, would you be prosecuted.
I have and the wimpish reply simply does not answer the question.
To me the big guy did exactly the right thing. I wouldn't have cared if the fare doger was a student, businessman or vicar. What most people do not realise is that a small percentage of the cost of not just train fares but also food and clothing, is added to cover what is refered to as shrinkage. That ladies and gentlemen is a polite word for theft.
Fare doging is theft. Pure and simple! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The fare dodger should have been dragged out of the train and then hung with piano wire as a warning to others.
His family should have then been subjected to dawn raids and incarcerated. Made to do hard labour for 20 years.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I despair for the fate of this country. So many apologists for wrongdoers on this site…
Rumour, just where on this thread are the apologists?
your relative will know about 'reasonable force'..
is it really reasonable for someone to be thrown to the floor over a train ticket?
the BTP was the better option, if they were available which is another issue
Doesn't anyone read anything other than what they want to see?
I have it on very good authority (My brother who is a Senior Manager on the Eastern Region) that the Transport police do not have the manpower to deal with a fare dodger! They are having to spend way too much time on metal thefts and the like to be able to spare the time for a two bit cheat!
As such, there would have been no one to meet him at the next or any station, ergo he would have got away with it! I would wager that is what the guy was banking on!
I said and I mean apologists on this site, perhaps not so much on this thread, but there have been many where excuses have been made for bad behaviour and this is an extension of that! Look at it this way…
Here we are collectively saying, if I understand everyone correctly that he was in the wrong to try to get away without paying. Or is it that he was wrong to get caught?? I ask that because we have one amongst us who is openly admitting to getting away with not paying for his train journeys! He thinks the railways are run badly, so he feels he doesn’t have to pay!
If the collective opinion is that the student was wrong not to buy a ticket, surely the guy who openly admitted to not buying tickets on here would have been ragged? He hasn’t been so I am of the opinion that posters on this thread think it is just wrong to get caught!
"
You missunderstand my point re dodging. I dodge half of my fares because there is no compensation available for late running services on my route (because the journey is deemed to be too short)
I always pay ful price for intercity journeys as I know that in the event of a delay I can claim compo........
It has nothing to do with the quality of service provided, it a statement against passengers being not treated with any respect.
This strategy came about when I asked a Train Manager why the service always ran late, he replied 'it just does' I asked if I could get compensation for the income I was loosing in the mornings and inconvenience of never getting home before 7, he replied 'no there isnt, thats why we can run late' at which point I thought sod you then, if you think you can rip me off every day you needn't expect me to buy a ticket every day and that will be my compensation.... |
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The guy was a hero,should torture anyone who breaks the law in front of family and friends as clarkson said.This country is way too soft.I work in a major supermarket chain and we catch at LEAST 6 shoplifters a DAY which in turn puts all the prices up!If we did what other countrys do and chops hands off then it would soon stop lol. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I despair for the fate of this country. So many apologists for wrongdoers on this site…
Rumour, just where on this thread are the apologists?
your relative will know about 'reasonable force'..
is it really reasonable for someone to be thrown to the floor over a train ticket?
the BTP was the better option, if they were available which is another issue
Doesn't anyone read anything other than what they want to see?
I have it on very good authority (My brother who is a Senior Manager on the Eastern Region) that the Transport police do not have the manpower to deal with a fare dodger! They are having to spend way too much time on metal thefts and the like to be able to spare the time for a two bit cheat!
As such, there would have been no one to meet him at the next or any station, ergo he would have got away with it! I would wager that is what the guy was banking on!
I said and I mean apologists on this site, perhaps not so much on this thread, but there have been many where excuses have been made for bad behaviour and this is an extension of that! Look at it this way…
Here we are collectively saying, if I understand everyone correctly that he was in the wrong to try to get away without paying. Or is it that he was wrong to get caught?? I ask that because we have one amongst us who is openly admitting to getting away with not paying for his train journeys! He thinks the railways are run badly, so he feels he doesn’t have to pay!
If the collective opinion is that the student was wrong not to buy a ticket, surely the guy who openly admitted to not buying tickets on here would have been ragged? He hasn’t been so I am of the opinion that posters on this thread think it is just wrong to get caught!
"
having just spoken to my friends sister who is an officer in the BPT i can now say you have been missinformed, she has just informed me that yes officers would of been at the next station to meet the lad off the train they have got enough officers to police both the metal situation and unruly passengers
she said that whenever an abusive passenger is reported to them they always respond immediately it is never ignored, officers are set aside for just such situations
i have not seen anyone on here saying he should of got away with it just that it should of been handled very differently
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By *b430Man
over a year ago
Tayside |
"
You missunderstand my point re dodging. I dodge half of my fares because there is no compensation available for late running services on my route (because the journey is deemed to be too short)
I always pay ful price for intercity journeys as I know that in the event of a delay I can claim compo........
It has nothing to do with the quality of service provided, it a statement against passengers being not treated with any respect.
This strategy came about when I asked a Train Manager why the service always ran late, he replied 'it just does' I asked if I could get compensation for the income I was loosing in the mornings and inconvenience of never getting home before 7, he replied 'no there isnt, thats why we can run late' at which point I thought sod you then, if you think you can rip me off every day you needn't expect me to buy a ticket every day and that will be my compensation...."
With that kind of logic would it then be ok if I was to start to shoplift every now and again from the supermarket?
You see, my defence would be that sometimes there is a bigger Q than at other times and I get held up and it makes me late for where I need to be next! 
I'm sure the courts would let me off with theft with the cast iron defence that it is really the supermarkets fault that I decided not to pay for what I wanted! |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
having just spoken to my friends sister who is an officer in the BPT i can now say you have been missinformed, she has just informed me that yes officers would of been at the next station to meet the lad off the train they have got enough officers to police both the metal situation and unruly passengers
she said that whenever an abusive passenger is reported to them they always respond immediately it is never ignored, officers are set aside for just such situations
i have not seen anyone on here saying he should of got away with it just that it should of been handled very differently
"
this this this......
i know from experience because we in my former job of working as a railway customer care manager had to call the BTP on various occasions...
the train would either have been held till the BTP can get there... or would have probably have been at the next station waiting.....
so back to the opening post by the OP ....
do you know why the most common reasons the BTP are called out to trains...
it is because of people who are d*unk,
it is because of people who refuse to stop smoking or take drugs....
it is because of people attacking members of staff....
it is because of stag and hen parties that are out of control and causing a nuisance to other passengers....
to be honest, fare dodging isn't that far up the list..... and to be honest the conductor could have written out a penalty notice and that way the passenger could have argued with the train company....
but to be honest... I think the OP just used it as an oppotunity to take a pop at students... the story just fitted an alternative agenda.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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He had been drinking, he was swearing and he didn't care, he got caught and suffered.
If he had a valid ticket none of it would have happened.
I don't believe the BTP would be available at the next station, why were they not at that station...Always to to do with man power and availability...
Issue guards and security guards with teasers, ticket not valid, have to get off, no, zzzzzzzzz, sorted...
I would like to share a proverb;
The more open a society is the harsher the punishment must be for abusing the openness.
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By *ottyhunk OP Couple
over a year ago
Leyburn |
"He had been drinking, he was swearing and he didn't care, he got caught and suffered.
If he had a valid ticket none of it would have happened.
I don't believe the BTP would be available at the next station, why were they not at that station...Always to to do with man power and availability...
Issue guards and security guards with teasers, ticket not valid, have to get off, no, zzzzzzzzz, sorted...
I would like to share a proverb;
The more open a society is the harsher the punishment must be for abusing the openness.
+ 1
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
1 young lad giving a bit of lip and being awkward is nothing !
Just looks to me like he was being a dick, the big lad was having a bad day and just wanted to get home and thought 'sod this'
Get on any train in Italy, Spain or Portugal and see how many of the gypsy community pay their fares.
I was on 1 train where there was literally a battle at every station which included the guard being spat at, kicked, punched and thrown onto the platform.
I have never been so happy to get off a train in all my life! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
You missunderstand my point re dodging. I dodge half of my fares because there is no compensation available for late running services on my route (because the journey is deemed to be too short)
I always pay ful price for intercity journeys as I know that in the event of a delay I can claim compo........
It has nothing to do with the quality of service provided, it a statement against passengers being not treated with any respect.
This strategy came about when I asked a Train Manager why the service always ran late, he replied 'it just does' I asked if I could get compensation for the income I was loosing in the mornings and inconvenience of never getting home before 7, he replied 'no there isnt, thats why we can run late' at which point I thought sod you then, if you think you can rip me off every day you needn't expect me to buy a ticket every day and that will be my compensation....
With that kind of logic would it then be ok if I was to start to shoplift every now and again from the supermarket?
You see, my defence would be that sometimes there is a bigger Q than at other times and I get held up and it makes me late for where I need to be next!
I'm sure the courts would let me off with theft with the cast iron defence that it is really the supermarkets fault that I decided not to pay for what I wanted! "
Im afraid that this is a fatuous argument. The real comparison is if you bought something from the supermarket and it was rotten or faulty and then, when asking for a refund the 'assistant' said "we dont refund or give credit for those goods, that's why we sell faulty ones. Like it or lump it" |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"He had been drinking, he was swearing and he didn't care, he got caught and suffered.
If he had a valid ticket none of it would have happened.
I don't believe the BTP would be available at the next station, why were they not at that station...Always to to do with man power and availability...
Issue guards and security guards with teasers, ticket not valid, have to get off, no, zzzzzzzzz, sorted...
I would like to share a proverb;
The more open a society is the harsher the punishment must be for abusing the openness.
"
heck if it was up to be I'd have ticket barriers at every single station...
why......
because it means that tickets that are not valid would never have gotten on to the platform in the first.. and it also means every station would have to be manned.....
but that is unrealisitic.....
but to your post...we don't know he had been drinking and you can't make that claim, it was a train at 9.30am in the morning and it appears the issue is that he couldn't use his railcard till 10am, so just write the bloke out a penalty notice!
you don't have to believe that the BTP would have been at the next station... bearing in mind the train was headed toward edinburgh (where there is a main BTP base)... and trains between edinburgh and linlithgow , where this incident occured, run every 10 and is only 20 minutes away they could have been at the next station...
look into to story a lot further... talk to people in the know and with experience rather than be spoonfed what you want to believe......
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By *ottyhunk OP Couple
over a year ago
Leyburn |
"I love the suggestion of issuing conductors with teasers, I realise its a typing error but had a mental picture of Ken Dodd and his tickling stick. "
"What a beautiful day......what a beautiful for going up to a fare dodger and saying..............." |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
You missunderstand my point re dodging. I dodge half of my fares because there is no compensation available for late running services on my route (because the journey is deemed to be too short)
I always pay ful price for intercity journeys as I know that in the event of a delay I can claim compo........
It has nothing to do with the quality of service provided, it a statement against passengers being not treated with any respect.
This strategy came about when I asked a Train Manager why the service always ran late, he replied 'it just does' I asked if I could get compensation for the income I was loosing in the mornings and inconvenience of never getting home before 7, he replied 'no there isnt, thats why we can run late' at which point I thought sod you then, if you think you can rip me off every day you needn't expect me to buy a ticket every day and that will be my compensation...."
and i bet you also pay full fare on the intercity trains knowing full well there are barriers at both ends... and a conductor on the train and no means of saying "oppsie" forgot.....
you want compensation... buy a ticket, and write to the train company, if that doesn't work..scale it up to customer focus... if that doesn't work then your mp....
but not buying a ticket out of conscience when the rest of us do isn't an excuse.... we fare paying passengers are then supplimenting you!!! |
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"I love the suggestion of issuing conductors with teasers, I realise its a typing error but had a mental picture of Ken Dodd and his tickling stick.
"What a beautiful day......what a beautiful for going up to a fare dodger and saying...............""
You didn't pay your fare so you're going to get my hair. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz |
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"
Doesn't anyone read anything other than what they want to see?
I said and I mean apologists on this site, perhaps not so much on this thread, but there have been many where excuses have been made for bad behaviour"
Rumour, me old m8 surely you are being a bit tounge in cheek with the 1st one
we all have different views based on many things, absolutely respect yours however ..
just because someone gives a diferent slant on something, does'nt necessarily mean they are excusing the behaviour..
all a bit subjective..
have a good weekend.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You missunderstand my point re dodging. I dodge half of my fares because there is no compensation available for late running services on my route (because the journey is deemed to be too short)
I always pay ful price for intercity journeys as I know that in the event of a delay I can claim compo........
It has nothing to do with the quality of service provided, it a statement against passengers being not treated with any respect.
This strategy came about when I asked a Train Manager why the service always ran late, he replied 'it just does' I asked if I could get compensation for the income I was loosing in the mornings and inconvenience of never getting home before 7, he replied 'no there isnt, thats why we can run late' at which point I thought sod you then, if you think you can rip me off every day you needn't expect me to buy a ticket every day and that will be my compensation....
and i bet you also pay full fare on the intercity trains knowing full well there are barriers at both ends... and a conductor on the train and no means of saying "oppsie" forgot.....
you want compensation... buy a ticket, and write to the train company, if that doesn't work..scale it up to customer focus... if that doesn't work then your mp....
but not buying a ticket out of conscience when the rest of us do isn't an excuse.... we fare paying passengers are then supplimenting you!!! "
Again, having worked for customer relations for a major toc, I know what the rules are for compensation. Journeys of less than 1 hour are not compensated (under the passenger charter) and so having writen to the TOC and been given the same sort of non response that I used to have to issue (without a gesture of good will) I decided to claim my own compo. I am never agresive and pay on the train if asked for a ticket....
I pay on intercity services not because stations are gated (because most local stations arent and you need not cross bariers to change trains from intercity to local services) but because I know that if there is any delay I can appy for a part refund on my ticket.
Again, the point about the supermarket stands, faulty goods and services are refundable regardless of the value, otherwise you change supplier. This is not possible in the case of rai services. Does no one remember the passenger strike on First Great Western services? |
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We have a perfectly adequate system for dealing with fare dodgers on our trains, it's called the ticket inspector....if that doesn't sort the problem we have the British Transport Police.
It's all very well calling for more vigilante justice....this was a fare dodger for god's sake, not a murderer.
People need to keep things in perspective, thank god we have decent gun laws in the UK or I would seriously worry about a few members on this site and their over reaction to lifes little problems. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"....
but to your post...we don't know he had been drinking and you can't make that claim,
"
I can, and it was reported as such.
"
it was a train at 9.30am in the morning and it appears the issue is that he couldn't use his railcard till 10am, so just write the bloke out a penalty notice!
"
He said he bought to single tickets as it was cheaper than a return, but made a mistak of buying 2 one way rather than there and back...
"
look into to story a lot further... talk to people in the know and with experience rather than be spoonfed what you want to believe......
"
I'm quite happy with what I have read and see to stay with my thoughs |
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By *b430Man
over a year ago
Tayside |
"
You missunderstand my point re dodging. I dodge half of my fares because there is no compensation available for late running services on my route (because the journey is deemed to be too short)
I always pay ful price for intercity journeys as I know that in the event of a delay I can claim compo........
It has nothing to do with the quality of service provided, it a statement against passengers being not treated with any respect.
This strategy came about when I asked a Train Manager why the service always ran late, he replied 'it just does' I asked if I could get compensation for the income I was loosing in the mornings and inconvenience of never getting home before 7, he replied 'no there isnt, thats why we can run late' at which point I thought sod you then, if you think you can rip me off every day you needn't expect me to buy a ticket every day and that will be my compensation....
With that kind of logic would it then be ok if I was to start to shoplift every now and again from the supermarket?
You see, my defence would be that sometimes there is a bigger Q than at other times and I get held up and it makes me late for where I need to be next!
I'm sure the courts would let me off with theft with the cast iron defence that it is really the supermarkets fault that I decided not to pay for what I wanted!
Im afraid that this is a fatuous argument. The real comparison is if you bought something from the supermarket and it was rotten or faulty and then, when asking for a refund the 'assistant' said "we dont refund or give credit for those goods, that's why we sell faulty ones. Like it or lump it""
Nah you're wrong; The argument stands because as you are not paying for the seat on the train you're commiting theft (albeit they would call it something slightly different if you ended up in court) so shoplifting every now and again, because they made me late by having a long Q, is the same thing i.e. theft!
Theft is theft no matter how you try to justify it, if you don't like their service then don't get on their trains. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You missunderstand my point re dodging. I dodge half of my fares because there is no compensation available for late running services on my route (because the journey is deemed to be too short)
I always pay ful price for intercity journeys as I know that in the event of a delay I can claim compo........
It has nothing to do with the quality of service provided, it a statement against passengers being not treated with any respect.
This strategy came about when I asked a Train Manager why the service always ran late, he replied 'it just does' I asked if I could get compensation for the income I was loosing in the mornings and inconvenience of never getting home before 7, he replied 'no there isnt, thats why we can run late' at which point I thought sod you then, if you think you can rip me off every day you needn't expect me to buy a ticket every day and that will be my compensation....
With that kind of logic would it then be ok if I was to start to shoplift every now and again from the supermarket?
You see, my defence would be that sometimes there is a bigger Q than at other times and I get held up and it makes me late for where I need to be next!
I'm sure the courts would let me off with theft with the cast iron defence that it is really the supermarkets fault that I decided not to pay for what I wanted!
Im afraid that this is a fatuous argument. The real comparison is if you bought something from the supermarket and it was rotten or faulty and then, when asking for a refund the 'assistant' said "we dont refund or give credit for those goods, that's why we sell faulty ones. Like it or lump it"
Nah you're wrong; The argument stands because as you are not paying for the seat on the train you're commiting theft (albeit they would call it something slightly different if you ended up in court) so shoplifting every now and again, because they made me late by having a long Q, is the same thing i.e. theft!
Theft is theft no matter how you try to justify it, if you don't like their service then don't get on their trains. "
Sorry, but thats nonsense. I am not arguing that I have to queue up to get a ticket, analagous to queuing at the supermarket. The goods/service I am buying, transport from one place to another is not being provided.
The sale of goods act entitles one to a refund. This act was writen in parliament and so is fair and balanced.
Passenger charter does not hold entitlement to a refund for journeys of a short duration. Passenger Charter was writen by the train opperating companies and is neither fair or balanced.
The rail regulator is a toothless organisation as evidenced by some TOC's trumpeting a 70% reliability rate as industry leading...... |
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By *b430Man
over a year ago
Tayside |
"
You missunderstand my point re dodging. I dodge half of my fares because there is no compensation available for late running services on my route (because the journey is deemed to be too short)
I always pay ful price for intercity journeys as I know that in the event of a delay I can claim compo........
It has nothing to do with the quality of service provided, it a statement against passengers being not treated with any respect.
This strategy came about when I asked a Train Manager why the service always ran late, he replied 'it just does' I asked if I could get compensation for the income I was loosing in the mornings and inconvenience of never getting home before 7, he replied 'no there isnt, thats why we can run late' at which point I thought sod you then, if you think you can rip me off every day you needn't expect me to buy a ticket every day and that will be my compensation....
With that kind of logic would it then be ok if I was to start to shoplift every now and again from the supermarket?
You see, my defence would be that sometimes there is a bigger Q than at other times and I get held up and it makes me late for where I need to be next!
I'm sure the courts would let me off with theft with the cast iron defence that it is really the supermarkets fault that I decided not to pay for what I wanted!
Im afraid that this is a fatuous argument. The real comparison is if you bought something from the supermarket and it was rotten or faulty and then, when asking for a refund the 'assistant' said "we dont refund or give credit for those goods, that's why we sell faulty ones. Like it or lump it"
Nah you're wrong; The argument stands because as you are not paying for the seat on the train you're commiting theft (albeit they would call it something slightly different if you ended up in court) so shoplifting every now and again, because they made me late by having a long Q, is the same thing i.e. theft!
Theft is theft no matter how you try to justify it, if you don't like their service then don't get on their trains.
Sorry, but thats nonsense. I am not arguing that I have to queue up to get a ticket, analagous to queuing at the supermarket. The goods/service I am buying, transport from one place to another is not being provided.
The sale of goods act entitles one to a refund. This act was writen in parliament and so is fair and balanced.
Passenger charter does not hold entitlement to a refund for journeys of a short duration. Passenger Charter was writen by the train opperating companies and is neither fair or balanced.
The rail regulator is a toothless organisation as evidenced by some TOC's trumpeting a 70% reliability rate as industry leading......"
The Q part of my argument is there because that's the reason they make me late; You said the trains have made you late so to get one over on them you sometimes don't pay the train fare i.e. theft!
The reasons for how you get to it being theft are irrelevant it is still theft.
I'll say again, if you don't like the service the train company provide then don't get on their trains, because as soon as you do you are bound by their rules/terms/conditions and one of those is paying for the seat you are sitting on whilst travelling on their train!
Right off back to work for me so I can earn some more money to pay for my next expensive train fare. If only those fare dodgers would cough up all the time then the tickets might not be so expensive for all us law abiding train passengers! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You missunderstand my point re dodging. I dodge half of my fares because there is no compensation available for late running services on my route (because the journey is deemed to be too short)
I always pay ful price for intercity journeys as I know that in the event of a delay I can claim compo........
It has nothing to do with the quality of service provided, it a statement against passengers being not treated with any respect.
This strategy came about when I asked a Train Manager why the service always ran late, he replied 'it just does' I asked if I could get compensation for the income I was loosing in the mornings and inconvenience of never getting home before 7, he replied 'no there isnt, thats why we can run late' at which point I thought sod you then, if you think you can rip me off every day you needn't expect me to buy a ticket every day and that will be my compensation....
With that kind of logic would it then be ok if I was to start to shoplift every now and again from the supermarket?
You see, my defence would be that sometimes there is a bigger Q than at other times and I get held up and it makes me late for where I need to be next!
I'm sure the courts would let me off with theft with the cast iron defence that it is really the supermarkets fault that I decided not to pay for what I wanted!
Im afraid that this is a fatuous argument. The real comparison is if you bought something from the supermarket and it was rotten or faulty and then, when asking for a refund the 'assistant' said "we dont refund or give credit for those goods, that's why we sell faulty ones. Like it or lump it"
Nah you're wrong; The argument stands because as you are not paying for the seat on the train you're commiting theft (albeit they would call it something slightly different if you ended up in court) so shoplifting every now and again, because they made me late by having a long Q, is the same thing i.e. theft!
Theft is theft no matter how you try to justify it, if you don't like their service then don't get on their trains.
Sorry, but thats nonsense. I am not arguing that I have to queue up to get a ticket, analagous to queuing at the supermarket. The goods/service I am buying, transport from one place to another is not being provided.
The sale of goods act entitles one to a refund. This act was writen in parliament and so is fair and balanced.
Passenger charter does not hold entitlement to a refund for journeys of a short duration. Passenger Charter was writen by the train opperating companies and is neither fair or balanced.
The rail regulator is a toothless organisation as evidenced by some TOC's trumpeting a 70% reliability rate as industry leading......
The Q part of my argument is there because that's the reason they make me late; You said the trains have made you late so to get one over on them you sometimes don't pay the train fare i.e. theft!
The reasons for how you get to it being theft are irrelevant it is still theft.
I'll say again, if you don't like the service the train company provide then don't get on their trains, because as soon as you do you are bound by their rules/terms/conditions and one of those is paying for the seat you are sitting on whilst travelling on their train!
Right off back to work for me so I can earn some more money to pay for my next expensive train fare. If only those fare dodgers would cough up all the time then the tickets might not be so expensive for all us law abiding train passengers! "
Doubtfull, 2% of the fare rise is going straight into the share holders pockets. I took part in the passenger strikes on 1st great western services and it got service levels up. What a ark, using power as a consumer to change corporate actions. Funny, I used to pay every day untill the train manager and custrell told me to fuck off..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Stone him to death, the fare dodging bastard, but remember no girls at the stoning please.
He's not just a fare dodger, he's a very naughty boy!! "
I shoud be so lucky..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
This debate is, I am sure, being replicated on many, many sites thoughout the land. Not just swinging ones.
I wonder if the student, er sorry long haired good for nothing d*unken layabout realises just what a furor he has caused.
At best any future prospective fare dodgers might thing twice now due to this new craze of people power,
And at worst, it has got folks talking. That can't be a bad thing.
Can it?
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Northants |
"Doesn't anyone read anything other than what they want to see?
I said and I mean apologists on this site, perhaps not so much on this thread, but there have been many where excuses have been made for bad behaviour
Rumour, me old m8 surely you are being a bit tounge in cheek with the 1st one
we all have different views based on many things, absolutely respect yours however ..
just because someone gives a diferent slant on something, does'nt necessarily mean they are excusing the behaviour..
all a bit subjective..
have a good weekend.."
Yeah, i can agree with the "different slant" aspect. But the main point of that post has been ignored! Namely:
"If the collective opinion is that the student was wrong not to buy a ticket, surely the guy who openly admitted to not buying tickets on here would have been ragged? He hasn’t been so I am of the opinion that posters on this thread think it is just wrong to get caught! "
As I said, I believe that most on here seem to thing he was just stupid getting caught as only a couple of people have called him out on it!
Have a good one yourself |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Northants |
"Doubtfull, 2% of the fare rise is going straight into the share holders pockets. I took part in the passenger strikes on 1st great western services and it got service levels up. What a ark, using power as a consumer to change corporate actions. Funny, I used to pay every day untill the train manager and custrell told me to fuck off....."
OK, my final thoughts..
Grinchypinchy…
I won’t mess about.. And I won’t pussy foot around the subject like some have done with vague hints…
As I see it, you are a self confessed thief! You actively and consciously plan and carry out the act of theft against all others who pay for their tickets. No matter which way you cut it, you are wrong! As I said in an earlier post, if we teach our kids that we don’t have to obey the “little” laws, how will we get them to understand and obey the “larger” laws?
IMO, you are no better than the person who shoplifts or steals the groceries from the back of my car as we are unloading it on our drive! (yep, it happened) But then I suppose you would justify it by saying I shouldn’t have left the back of the car open… You are no better than the kids who throw all their McDonalds wrappers from their car as they drive..
In short? Perhaps not...
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Doubtfull, 2% of the fare rise is going straight into the share holders pockets. I took part in the passenger strikes on 1st great western services and it got service levels up. What a ark, using power as a consumer to change corporate actions. Funny, I used to pay every day untill the train manager and custrell told me to fuck off.....
OK, my final thoughts..
Grinchypinchy…
I won’t mess about.. And I won’t pussy foot around the subject like some have done with vague hints…
As I see it, you are a self confessed thief! You actively and consciously plan and carry out the act of theft against all others who pay for their tickets. No matter which way you cut it, you are wrong! As I said in an earlier post, if we teach our kids that we don’t have to obey the “little” laws, how will we get them to understand and obey the “larger” laws?
IMO, you are no better than the person who shoplifts or steals the groceries from the back of my car as we are unloading it on our drive! (yep, it happened) But then I suppose you would justify it by saying I shouldn’t have left the back of the car open… You are no better than the kids who throw all their McDonalds wrappers from their car as they drive..
In short? Perhaps not...
"
I take that to be that I am also in the same vein of people who camp out in town squares and public parks. What I do is a caculated civil protest against an unfair compensation rule writen by train opperating cmpanies with the complicity of the people who stood to gain from the privitisation of the railways......
Each to their own though |
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"Doesn't anyone read anything other than what they want to see?
I said and I mean apologists on this site, perhaps not so much on this thread, but there have been many where excuses have been made for bad behaviour
Rumour, me old m8 surely you are being a bit tounge in cheek with the 1st one
we all have different views based on many things, absolutely respect yours however ..
just because someone gives a diferent slant on something, does'nt necessarily mean they are excusing the behaviour..
all a bit subjective..
have a good weekend..
Yeah, i can agree with the "different slant" aspect. But the main point of that post has been ignored! Namely:
"If the collective opinion is that the student was wrong not to buy a ticket, surely the guy who openly admitted to not buying tickets on here would have been ragged? He hasn’t been so I am of the opinion that posters on this thread think it is just wrong to get caught! "
As I said, I believe that most on here seem to thing he was just stupid getting caught as only a couple of people have called him out on it!
Have a good one yourself "
dont go with the idea that taking a chance of getting caught is worth taking the risk of something like fare dodging..
then again am in a job where it would be gross misconduct, end of..
no angel, wont hand myself in if i do 35 in a 30..
ty, will do if this man bug goes lol |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"Doesn't anyone read anything other than what they want to see?
I said and I mean apologists on this site, perhaps not so much on this thread, but there have been many where excuses have been made for bad behaviour
Rumour, me old m8 surely you are being a bit tounge in cheek with the 1st one
we all have different views based on many things, absolutely respect yours however ..
just because someone gives a diferent slant on something, does'nt necessarily mean they are excusing the behaviour..
all a bit subjective..
have a good weekend..
Yeah, i can agree with the "different slant" aspect. But the main point of that post has been ignored! Namely:
"If the collective opinion is that the student was wrong not to buy a ticket, surely the guy who openly admitted to not buying tickets on here would have been ragged? He hasn’t been so I am of the opinion that posters on this thread think it is just wrong to get caught! "
As I said, I believe that most on here seem to thing he was just stupid getting caught as only a couple of people have called him out on it!
Have a good one yourself "
Rumour...sorry mate, but your posts are the best bit of deflective answers I have seen in a long time.
The simple facts are, you assumed that because people said that they thought the train incident wasn't dealt with properly, that they condoned a lad on a train with no ticket.
Then when someone pointed it out to you that that wasn't the case , you then said the same people must be condoning the man on this thread for fare dodging because no one had " ragged " him out on it.
It is like a big circle....I wonder what will be next |
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"
I take that to be that I am also in the same vein of people who camp out in town squares and public parks. What I do is a caculated civil protest against an unfair compensation rule writen by train opperating cmpanies with the complicity of the people who stood to gain from the privitisation of the railways......
Each to their own though"
its still wrong though is'nt it?
would you tell your kids (if you have any), young relatives etc that its ok now and then to help yourself to a sweet from a particular manufacturer cos they make lots of profits on other products?
your point about legislation and compensation etc, would it not be better to pay for a period..
collect your 'evidence' and apply for a refund, go through the hoops of being told no..
then the ombudsman, then a civil case in the small claims court?
if its as bad as you feel that you put yourself at risk of a criminal record, thensurely its worth taking an alternative 'route'..
any magistrate sitting in front of you will be perplexed about your reasoning if you do get nicked, and will still then treat you like the one before you who had stolen some cabling off the railway...
your point about you being in the same 'camp' as protestors is stretching it and to be honest out of order mate..imho |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I take that to be that I am also in the same vein of people who camp out in town squares and public parks. What I do is a caculated civil protest against an unfair compensation rule writen by train opperating cmpanies with the complicity of the people who stood to gain from the privitisation of the railways......
Each to their own though
its still wrong though is'nt it?
would you tell your kids (if you have any), young relatives etc that its ok now and then to help yourself to a sweet from a particular manufacturer cos they make lots of profits on other products?
your point about legislation and compensation etc, would it not be better to pay for a period..
collect your 'evidence' and apply for a refund, go through the hoops of being told no..
then the ombudsman, then a civil case in the small claims court?
if its as bad as you feel that you put yourself at risk of a criminal record, thensurely its worth taking an alternative 'route'..
any magistrate sitting in front of you will be perplexed about your reasoning if you do get nicked, and will still then treat you like the one before you who had stolen some cabling off the railway...
your point about you being in the same 'camp' as protestors is stretching it and to be honest out of order mate..imho"
You are entitled to your opinion, but (as I have posted before) I know the compensation system inside out, having worked in customer relations. I am not sure if I made. it clear in previous posts, but I do not pay for exactly half of my tickets. I know zI have said that if challenged on the train I buy the valid ticket and (as the scheme is in place) always buy the ticket for intercity journeys.
This is Civil Disobedience, not thoughtless theft. It worked very well in 2007 as a protest against 1st great western when the company was forced to change their ways.
I dont put myself in the same league, but was Ghandi a criminal for not paying salt tax? Were the yanks criminals for protesting taxation without representation? |
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Civil Disobedience, sorry its not imho thats a cop out for your decisions against what is a poor system..
when you get a 'following' or more than just yourself doing so then thats a different story..
both examples you give are where a part of the population were being repressed by the use of unfair and punitive taxation..
as with the poll tax to a degree..
just by yourself its theft, albeit you feel justified in doing so and have the means to pay if caught..
it is what it is despite how you try and excuse it..
would you say to a child its ok to follow the same path of 'protest' as they may feel like..
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Civil Disobedience, sorry its not imho thats a cop out for your decisions against what is a poor system..
when you get a 'following' or more than just yourself doing so then thats a different story..
both examples you give are where a part of the population were being repressed by the use of unfair and punitive taxation..
as with the poll tax to a degree..
just by yourself its theft, albeit you feel justified in doing so and have the means to pay if caught..
it is what it is despite how you try and excuse it..
would you say to a child its ok to follow the same path of 'protest' as they may feel like..
"
I would encourage my child to have a healthy attitude of protest.
I disagree with the analagy of stealing from a shop as the sale of goods act covers refund or replacement of defective goods where the passenger charter does not.
The point on a one person protest has some validity, but in response, from small acorns. Also, the poll tax protesters were victorious, despite them starting in small groups.
It has nothing to do with the profits made by any organisation, but to do with the attitude of train staff and custrell opperatives when, having been a regular payer I was brushed off. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Personally I think the Student was handled in a very aggressive way considering the situation...yes he swore at the conductor but was no way aggressive towards him and then was just man handled off the train by 'big man' throwing his weight around....the student also had his bag left on the train so tried to get back on to collect his stuff only to be hurled to the ground again.....apparantly the student did buy two single tickets (captured on cctv) as was told works out cheaper than return at the time but was issued with two for same direction...if this warrants being throw on out of a train head first god help us |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"....the student also had his bag left on the train so tried to get back on to collect his stuff only to be hurled to the ground again.....
"
His bag was also chucked off, look at the clip and someone takes his bag off. Not nasty etc, just a person caught and didn't want to accept that he was holding up loads of people.
If it is true about the two tickets, then it's a good lesson for a student to pay attention to what happens.
We have all learnt from our mistakes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"....the student also had his bag left on the train so tried to get back on to collect his stuff only to be hurled to the ground again.....
His bag was also chucked off, look at the clip and someone takes his bag off. Not nasty etc, just a person caught and didn't want to accept that he was holding up loads of people.
If it is true about the two tickets, then it's a good lesson for a student to pay attention to what happens.
We have all learnt from our mistakes."
Let's hope the 'big man' learns from his in an appropriate way |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Northants |
OK, this is REALLY my last post on the subject. So… Reply at need. If you want to get the last word in, be my guest!
"Rumour...sorry mate, but your posts are the best bit of deflective answers I have seen in a long time. The simple facts are, you assumed that because people said that they thought the train incident wasn't dealt with properly, that they condoned a lad on a train with no ticket. Then when someone pointed it out to you that that wasn't the case , you then said the same people must be condoning the man on this thread for fare dodging because no one had " ragged " him out on it. It is like a big circle....I wonder what will be next "
Sorry Rugby, I really think you have the wrong end of the stick! I am talking about two differnt people committing the same offence and only one getting condemned.
OK, Most on here do not condone what the “student” has done. You can assume that it is because he has tried to get away without paying. You could also assume that it is because he was stupid enough to get caught!
So, tying those two lines of thought up, I referenced “GrinchyPinchy” who admitted that he only ever pays for half his train journeys. The point I made, or was trying to make was this…
On one hand we have the student who didn’t pay for a ticket who people are condemning! On the other hand we have a Fab member who is openly admitting to not paying fares on trains and no one is (was) condemning! As the Fab member didn’t get ragged for what he said, it is OK to come to the conclusion that no one thought he was wrong. Therefore the student couldn’t be wrong for doing the same.
The only other conclusion was that people thought it was OK to try it, but not OK to get caught doing it! Ergo the “crime” was getting caught! No where did I say that is the hard and fast conclusion, just my take on the possibilities!
GrinchyPinchy… (sigh)
The analogous reference to shoplifting is a perfectly valid one. If you didn’t like the service you had from the train companies, you should take that through the courts under The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. That sets out what is ”fair and reasonable” according to the law.
There are also many other facets of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 that would be interesting to try out against the bad service you say you have had! If you haven’t tried these avenues, then you haven’t exhausted all avenues in fighting your claim.
A protest is only a protest if people know about it! You have to tell the train companies that you are going to take the action or you are just a common thief!
We live in a social society and as such we have to abide by the rules and laws in force. We can’t just decide that for us one law is unjust and we just won’t abide by it. We all have equal rights in law and if you don’t like them, change them through the proper channels..
Start a movement, arrange to meet with the train companies. Tel them that you will protest by not paying your fares! MAN UP instead of sneaking around and thinking you have got “one over on the man”! Who do you think you are? Citizen Smith?
OK, off to find another crusade.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Roumour (sigh) the sale of goods act does not apply to the rail industry. The passenger charter is the route for complaint.
It is not analagous to a shop because you were advocating theft of goods because a) the queue was to long or b) the shop was making too much profit. niether of these are the basis of my protest
The train companies are aware of my protest as they have been advised by letter..... |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"OK, this is REALLY my last post on the subject. So… Reply at need. If you want to get the last word in, be my guest!
Rumour...sorry mate, but your posts are the best bit of deflective answers I have seen in a long time. The simple facts are, you assumed that because people said that they thought the train incident wasn't dealt with properly, that they condoned a lad on a train with no ticket. Then when someone pointed it out to you that that wasn't the case , you then said the same people must be condoning the man on this thread for fare dodging because no one had " ragged " him out on it. It is like a big circle....I wonder what will be next
Sorry Rugby, I really think you have the wrong end of the stick! I am talking about two differnt people committing the same offence and only one getting condemned.
"
I have read it again and to be honest, I don't think I did. I and Surrey were commenting on your comments through the thread about people making excuses for the student on the train and I do think you were trying to deflect it when you realised that no one had.
That is just my view though, so no need to get upset as no one takes any notice of me normally anyway
Trying to goad people not to post by your "last word " comment is not really in the spirit of a forum or debate though
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
To be honest I feel the man who kicked the kid of the train should be done with assault it was not his place to do anything and he had no authorization to man handle the boy. The boy should have been dealt with like any other person who did not have a ticket/ticket was not valid.
He may have been abusive in front of other children but again this should have been dealt with by the powers that be not some random guy who got involved with something that really had nothing to do with him. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I hardly think Grinchy and the student (if he deliberately hadn't bought a ticket as thats not cast iron yet) can be referenced to as the same as it wasn't so much the act of not buying a ticket in my mind, but the act of spitting a load of foul chew out to avoid buying a ticket, nearby small kids whose parents had paid themselves to have them make the journey in a safe environment for their children, along with holding up the train and inconveniencing everyone on board. Most fare dodgers would probably not buy a ticket then just sit there until confronted (maybe vanishing to the bogs for long intervals), if that doesn't happen then wha-hey free ride. If it does then they simply buy one off the conductor.
If Grinchy has stated that he'd have reacted exactly the same as the student in question if asked to produce his ticket, not giving a toss who else was nearby, then by all means release the hounds. But I don't think he has. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you hear the account from the guy who filmed the incident, Ian Hems, he said that there was five minutes of verbal abuse from the student prior to him starting to film.
There were children very close by having to listen to this verbal abuse so I feel Mr Pollock did the right thing.
Too many students in this country feel they are exempt from the law that most of us want to abide by. The train did quite rightly proceed with FULL fare paying passengers. If the student chose to not pay then he has to take shanky's pony!"
"Too many students in this country feel they are exempt from the law". ? On what basis do you make this assertion? Are you a Criminologist or a Sociologist who is privy to the relevant facts and figures? Or do you just have a downer on students which is rooted in inverse snobbery and fuelled by right wing tabloids which rail against students and any other sections of society which find the courage to go out onto the streets and demonstrate against something they don't like rather than just get d*unk and grumble to their friends?
I am not privy to the relevant facts and figures, but my guess is that students are no more likely to feel that they are exempt from the law than plumbers, zoologists, airline pilots, shop assistants or hairdressers, and this particular person could just as well have been a butcher , a publican , a journalist or a social worker. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Good god! Some people on Fab never cease to amaze me! Here we have an abusive and surely student who probably thinks the world owes him a living! There is a train full of passengers, some of whom have connections to catch. The little arse has been caught bang to rights and refuses to give his details, so the guard did the right thing. He insisted he left the train.
OK, he didn’t want to leave the train and started getting abusive. You really think the guard should back down and let him travel? What message does that send to others? BTP? Yeah sure, they are really going to rush to a station to catch a fare dodger! Just like the Police won’t come out if your car is stolen or any number of other crimes are committed!
The big guy was a welcome relief from all the namby “don’t want to get involved” people there are about. I’m sure if some on here had their way, they’d give the little shite compensation!
Until we start enforcing the “little” laws, we have no hope in teaching our children to respect the “bigger” laws. I would wager that those of you who have well behaved kids have never let them drop litter or swear at people!
"
Absolutely. Therefore you should be arrested for using the swear word 'shite'.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
another update to this story....
the person who chucked the student off the train is going to be charged with assault...
the student may end up being charged with trespass (so riding without a ticket) but that is being left up to the procurator fiscal sevice to decide...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16288101 |
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"If you hear the account from the guy who filmed the incident, Ian Hems, he said that there was five minutes of verbal abuse from the student prior to him starting to film.
There were children very close by having to listen to this verbal abuse so I feel Mr Pollock did the right thing.
Too many students in this country feel they are exempt from the law that most of us want to abide by. The train did quite rightly proceed with FULL fare paying passengers. If the student chose to not pay then he has to take shanky's pony!
"Too many students in this country feel they are exempt from the law". ? On what basis do you make this assertion? Are you a Criminologist or a Sociologist who is privy to the relevant facts and figures? Or do you just have a downer on students which is rooted in inverse snobbery and fuelled by right wing tabloids which rail against students and any other sections of society which find the courage to go out onto the streets and demonstrate against something they don't like rather than just get d*unk and grumble to their friends?
I am not privy to the relevant facts and figures, but my guess is that students are no more likely to feel that they are exempt from the law than plumbers, zoologists, airline pilots, shop assistants or hairdressers, and this particular person could just as well have been a butcher , a publican , a journalist or a social worker."
Agree +1 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"another update to this story....
the person who chucked the student off the train is going to be charged with assault...
"
and quite rightly so.....2 wrongs dont make a right |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I will guess the big man will just get a slap on the hand.
But it would be a travesty, if nothing happened to the fare dodger."
i don't see how you can condone what in effect is vigilante justice.... oh and by the way.. that drinking stuff that you claimed earlier.... not proven and not charged, so i hope you retract that!!!
see you say fare dodger..... the problem in the students case isn't that clear cut
because since he had a ticket,which actually was correct, but the railcard was invalid at that time... if it considered to be a deliberate act then yes they will charge him... if not then all they will do is fine him as an incorrect ticket is considered no ticket at all |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I will guess the big man will just get a slap on the hand.
But it would be a travesty, if nothing happened to the fare dodger.
i don't see how you can condone what in effect is vigilante justice.... oh and by the way.. that drinking stuff that you claimed earlier.... not proven and not charged, so i hope you retract that!!!
see you say fare dodger..... the problem in the students case isn't that clear cut
because since he had a ticket,which actually was correct, but the railcard was invalid at that time... if it considered to be a deliberate act then yes they will charge him... if not then all they will do is fine him as an incorrect ticket is considered no ticket at all "
He was the instrument in his own misfortune (Fare dodger), in a similar way to the big man, both now have to suffer for what they did.
Since it's Xmas, here is a gift, though a misquote, 'for bad people to prosper, good people must stand idle'
I didn't say he had been drinking, it was in a quote from another poster, including one who though he might be special needs.
If you really believe that vigilante justice is wrong, guess you don't need to say anything and let the system deal with what I say, or it may look as if your trying to be a vigilante on here, correcting what YOU think is right and wrong |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The trouble with you lot and I mean the 98% of the NIMBY squad (that Not In My Back Yard) means that the more these cretins get away with it, not just fare dodging but shoplifting, litter louts and the like, and it means it's a downward spiral to a decline of all things decent in our society.
Deal with the simple things now, and the world could (I say could) evolve into a better place.
For those of you old enough to remember, think back to the times you could play out till it got dark for example, why? Cos we all looked out for each other and not ourselves.
I would have no hesitation of heaving out of a train a low life thief, and that is exactly what he was. But I would let it stop first. I'm not all bad!
Theft? Whilst he didn't actually steal a tangible item, he didn't pay for the ride that everyone else probably did!
And if a fund is created to pay for defence costs, I for one will offer something.
As far as knife crime is concerned, there are limits to even the best of intentions when it comes to people power.
But think on this. If the knife wielding thug had been told to pick up his litter, etc, he might not be standing there now with a knife in hand.
Classic NIMBY in action.
There I feel better now. Rant over for 2011. Merry Christmas. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"The trouble with you lot and I mean the 98% of the NIMBY squad (that Not In My Back Yard) means that the more these cretins get away with it, not just fare dodging but shoplifting, litter louts and the like, and it means it's a downward spiral to a decline of all things decent in our society.
"
And the trouble with some is...they twist what they read.
I didn't see anyone condone what the lad was doing ( actually maybe one person if I remember rightly without reading the thread again)
Saying that the situation could have been dealt with better isn't saying the lad should be able to fare dodge and get away with it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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one of the comments on hear were ,would you like your son thrown off a train with no phone or monie ,well i beg to differ , the young pratts father said ,he got thrown off the train ,without his bag phone or his monie ,well if the little cunt had monie in his bag why the fuck did he not pay his fair ,deserves every thing he got ,shame on his parents for defending him |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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one of the comments on hear were ,would you like your son thrown off a train with no phone or monie ,well i beg to differ , the young pratts father said ,he got thrown off the train ,without his bag phone or his monie ,well if the little cunt had monie in his bag why the fuck did he not pay his fair ,deserves every thing he got ,shame on his parents for defending him |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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well said glassman999 ,standards standing up and being counted counts ,i also read that the father of the boy defending his sons action said he is diabetic ,how can you treat him like this ,DIABETIC, is that some sort of excuse for bad behaviour, oh i see, well i am diabetic ant traveled to edinburgh on monday i new i was doing something wrong ,i payed for my fair . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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the young student had bought a ticket he bought 2 singles,as was cheapper than a return but the person who gave him the tickets made a mistake and gave hime both tickets going the same way.
the conductor didn't want to hear bout it prob because he was young and thought he was trying his luck.
he should have got transport police instead of agreeing to letting another passanger throw him of the train,
yes he should never have sore but he wasn't being agressive and iam sure you would get upset if you were not getting listened to.
once thrown off the young guy tried to get back on to get his bag as it had his phone, ipod and his medication. he diabetic.
could have been alot more serious if another passenger hadn't thrown his bag off to.
the big guy should never have gotten involved,unless the young guy had got agressive.
the guy should get charged with ass.ult |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" ,DIABETIC, is that some sort of excuse for bad behaviour,"
I'm sure you'll know that changes in blood sugar levels can and do change behavioural patterns in diabetics
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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oh please ,stop defending him i am perfectaly aware of how it can change behavour paterns ,i deal with diabetics every day and i have never known anyone i am in contact with having the need to dodge there fare or not pay for something ,just because they have a low bliid shugar count Mmm. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"oh please ,stop defending him i am perfectaly aware of how it can change behavour paterns ,i deal with diabetics every day and i have never known anyone i am in contact with having the need to dodge there fare or not pay for something ,just because they have a low bliid shugar count Mmm."
I wasn't defending him,just commenting on you saying that diabetes was no excuse for bad behaviour in general.It can be |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I maybe wrong, but when is it ever cheaper on the train to get 2 singles instead of a return? And even if it was true any decent person would have paid and then written in or seen the office on arrival to discuss the error and try and get their money back. I certainly wouldn't have sworn at an elderly train conductor and then kept the whole train waiting. I would have been so embarrassed! Some people have no shame. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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yeh ok point taken, but just for future ref being diabetic is not a ecuse for theft,however back to the orignal thred i fully support the guy who chucked him off the train ,please dont let his cace be herd by some old fart of a judge who himself has lost the plot |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I maybe wrong, but when is it ever cheaper on the train to get 2 singles instead of a return? And even if it was true any decent person would have paid and then written in or seen the office on arrival to discuss the error and try and get their money back. I certainly wouldn't have sworn at an elderly train conductor and then kept the whole train waiting. I would have been so embarrassed! Some people have no shame."
But that's the problem, some kids are think cheating is perfectly acceptable. They pay £40 for a video game, program in a cheat, finish it in 5 minutes and think they're clever.
I used to shoplift, fare dodge, but I knew it was wrong, it was the challenge. If you got caught you took your punishment, not whined to the court for getting a clip round the ear. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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yep you are wright cushy,i used to steel out of peoples garden plots apples and the like ,not the same leuge i supose ,but stealing all the same ,but it was the challange getting in and out without getting caught ,now many a time i would get caught or seen and my grandfather or dad would have got to no about it ,being a small village , and wo betide my dad would not defend my actions i would have got my backside kicked good and proper ,and if the owener of the plot had kicked my backside too i would have been told i got what i deserved by my parents ,not defended by them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the young student had bought a ticket he bought 2 singles,as was cheapper than a return but the person who gave him the tickets made a mistake and gave hime both tickets going the same way.
the conductor didn't want to hear bout it prob because he was young and thought he was trying his luck.
he should have got transport police instead of agreeing to letting another passanger throw him of the train,
yes he should never have sore but he wasn't being agressive and iam sure you would get upset if you were not getting listened to.
once thrown off the young guy tried to get back on to get his bag as it had his phone, ipod and his medication. he diabetic.
could have been alot more serious if another passenger hadn't thrown his bag off to.
the big guy should never have gotten involved,unless the young guy had got agressive.
the guy should get charged with ass.ult"
I agree with you, i think the big man was just being a bully. |
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