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What an amazing time in history to see
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People won't be quite so happy to see what this is doing to oil prices and just how bad that will get if Libya falls into a civil war.
Libya is a nation made up of tribes, there is no political opposition as such, it's just a shit hole of a country being held together by a military dictatorship.....Gaddafi is the lesser of several evils in Libya. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i think it's amazing....tunisia, egypt, bahrain, libya...decades of oppression coming to an end...and the people are doing it for themselves....a ripple effect causing an uprising,
how to bring peace to the middle east |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"People won't be quite so happy to see what this is doing to oil prices and just how bad that will get if Libya falls into a civil war.
Libya is a nation made up of tribes, there is no political opposition as such, it's just a shit hole of a country being held together by a military dictatorship.....Gaddafi is the lesser of several evils in Libya."
I do apreciate that oil prices have already started to rise and that a lot of middle eastern countries are tribal....having worked in almost all of them, Gaddafi alas, I don't feel is the lesser of several evils in Libya, unless you meant Bin Ladan's group etc.,? |
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"i think it's amazing....tunisia, egypt, bahrain, libya...decades of oppression coming to an end...and the people are doing it for themselves....a ripple effect causing an uprising,
how to bring peace to the middle east"
Egypt.....the only reason that there has been any sort of fractured peace between Israel and it's neighbours is that Egypt has been quietly tolerant of the State of Israel for a couple of decades now, they and Jordan hold that part of the world together and away from all out war with Israel.
Is it really a thing to celebrate that the only credible political opposition in Egypt is the 'Muslim Brotherhood' political party?
For the last Five years they have openly criticised Mubarak for keeping peace with Israel.
Maybe not such a positive thing for peace in the Middle East?......time will tell, but I personally worry.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i think it's amazing....tunisia, egypt, bahrain, libya...decades of oppression coming to an end...and the people are doing it for themselves....a ripple effect causing an uprising,
how to bring peace to the middle east
Egypt.....the only reason that there has been any sort of fractured peace between Israel and it's neighbours is that Egypt has been quietly tolerant of the State of Israel for a couple of decades now, they and Jordan hold that part of the world together and away from all out war with Israel.
Is it really a thing to celebrate that the only credible political opposition in Egypt is the 'Muslim Brotherhood' political party?
For the last Five years they have openly criticised Mubarak for keeping peace with Israel.
Maybe not such a positive thing for peace in the Middle East?......time will tell, but I personally worry.
"
The Saudis are shitting themselves ... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"i think it's amazing....tunisia, egypt, bahrain, libya...decades of oppression coming to an end...and the people are doing it for themselves....a ripple effect causing an uprising,
how to bring peace to the middle east
Egypt.....the only reason that there has been any sort of fractured peace between Israel and it's neighbours is that Egypt has been quietly tolerant of the State of Israel for a couple of decades now, they and Jordan hold that part of the world together and away from all out war with Israel.
Is it really a thing to celebrate that the only credible political opposition in Egypt is the 'Muslim Brotherhood' political party?
For the last Five years they have openly criticised Mubarak for keeping peace with Israel.
Maybe not such a positive thing for peace in the Middle East?......time will tell, but I personally worry.
Perhaps the people will now, that the supression has stopped form credible political Egyp....................................the only reason that there has been any sort of fractured peace between Israel and it's neighbours is that Egypt has been quietly tolerant of the State of Israel for a couple of decades now, they and Jordan hold that part of the world together and away from all out war with Israel.patries......
"
bit more complex than that....have to take into account Western support for an oppresive regime? |
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This is a double edged sword. The majority of people in these countries are against the west, for one reason. The support given to the ruthless dictators for years by western governments, turning a blind eye to all the atrocities that were being committed.
Troubled times await...time to make love while we can.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"i think it's amazing....tunisia, egypt, bahrain, libya...decades of oppression coming to an end...and the people are doing it for themselves....a ripple effect causing an uprising,
how to bring peace to the middle east
Egypt.....the only reason that there has been any sort of fractured peace between Israel and it's neighbours is that Egypt has been quietly tolerant of the State of Israel for a couple of decades now, they and Jordan hold that part of the world together and away from all out war with Israel.
Is it really a thing to celebrate that the only credible political opposition in Egypt is the 'Muslim Brotherhood' political party?
For the last Five years they have openly criticised Mubarak for keeping peace with Israel.
Maybe not such a positive thing for peace in the Middle East?......time will tell, but I personally worry.
The Saudis are shitting themselves ..."
and the Chinese |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i think it's amazing....tunisia, egypt, bahrain, libya...decades of oppression coming to an end...and the people are doing it for themselves....a ripple effect causing an uprising,
how to bring peace to the middle east
Egypt.....the only reason that there has been any sort of fractured peace between Israel and it's neighbours is that Egypt has been quietly tolerant of the State of Israel for a couple of decades now, they and Jordan hold that part of the world together and away from all out war with Israel.
Is it really a thing to celebrate that the only credible political opposition in Egypt is the 'Muslim Brotherhood' political party?
For the last Five years they have openly criticised Mubarak for keeping peace with Israel.
Maybe not such a positive thing for peace in the Middle East?......time will tell, but I personally worry.
"
Most of the drive for reform seems to be coming from quite westernised Egyptians. The Muslim Brotherhood is vocal in the same way that the Socialist Workers Party is in the UK, it doesn't mean it will be the de-facto government in waiting, it itself is quite fractured. Western foreign policy seems to be keep the lid on the pressure cooker until it explodes then wonder why fundamentalism or extremism fills the vacuum. Handled properly, the accord between Israel and Egypt could continue |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its a vacuum in which Islam extremists have been long prepared for ....
Wabbism is a real threat ...
Tis heartening to see peeps fight and aspire fer liberty and freedom of expression ...but I fear fer the future ...
Hope and pray it works out...for everyone ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its a vacuum in which Islam extremists have been long prepared for ....
Wabbism is a real threat ...
Tis heartening to see peeps fight and aspire fer liberty and freedom of expression ...but I fear fer the future ...
Hope and pray it works out...for everyone ... "
Yeah .....those fuckin' wabbits.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its a vacuum in which Islam extremists have been long prepared for ....
Wabbism is a real threat ...
Tis heartening to see peeps fight and aspire fer liberty and freedom of expression ...but I fear fer the future ...
Hope and pray it works out...for everyone ...
Yeah .....those fuckin' wabbits.... "
Lol its the finonacci effect ....fucking everywhere ..with assistance |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Its a vacuum in which Islam extremists have been long prepared for ....
Wabbism is a real threat ...
Tis heartening to see peeps fight and aspire fer liberty and freedom of expression ...but I fear fer the future ...
Hope and pray it works out...for everyone ...
Yeah .....those fuckin' wabbits....
Lol its the finonacci effect ....fucking everywhere ..with assistance "
Gee time to give up if need assisatnce  lol |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"Its a vacuum in which Islam extremists have been long prepared for ....
Wabbism is a real threat ...
Tis heartening to see peeps fight and aspire fer liberty and freedom of expression ...but I fear fer the future ...
Hope and pray it works out...for everyone ... "
Spot on with that. I think it might be frying pan to fire time. I hope not but i am pretty sure radicals will move in the same as happened in Iran after the Shar was deposed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its a vacuum in which Islam extremists have been long prepared for ....
Wabbism is a real threat ...
Tis heartening to see peeps fight and aspire fer liberty and freedom of expression ...but I fear fer the future ...
Hope and pray it works out...for everyone ...
Yeah .....those fuckin' wabbits....
Lol its the finonacci effect ....fucking everywhere ..with assistance
Gee time to give up if need assisatnce lol"
Tink these bunnies are like the fucker in Wallace and Gromitt....gurt bleeding teeth ...haha.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its a vacuum in which Islam extremists have been long prepared for ....
Wabbism is a real threat ...
Tis heartening to see peeps fight and aspire fer liberty and freedom of expression ...but I fear fer the future ...
Hope and pray it works out...for everyone ...
Spot on with that. I think it might be frying pan to fire time. I hope not but i am pretty sure radicals will move in the same as happened in Iran after the Shar was deposed. "
Its looks likely doesn`t it ...god only knows the repercussions ....the whole situation is bloody scary to me ..and I don`t think I`m being alarmist ...hope I`m wrong tho ... |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"Its a vacuum in which Islam extremists have been long prepared for ....
Wabbism is a real threat ...
Tis heartening to see peeps fight and aspire fer liberty and freedom of expression ...but I fear fer the future ...
Hope and pray it works out...for everyone ...
Spot on with that. I think it might be frying pan to fire time. I hope not but i am pretty sure radicals will move in the same as happened in Iran after the Shar was deposed.
Its looks likely doesn`t it ...god only knows the repercussions ....the whole situation is bloody scary to me ..and I don`t think I`m being alarmist ...hope I`m wrong tho ..."
The top brass in uniform are very worried about how it may go. All the cuts going on, we have no planes on our aircraft carriers and revolution in multiple Islamic country's! I am all for democracy but it won't come easily and you can bet money one or two states will have a heavy fundamental influence.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wabbism as I have understood is Saudi sourced/funded so again then the West has itself to blame.....and lots of innocents to pay the price for  "
Correctumondo.....a look to see the influence of Wabbism is scary ...
Wahington has known about it fer years ...House of Saud just about keeping a lid on it ....
As ever its realpolitik... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its a vacuum in which Islam extremists have been long prepared for ....
Wabbism is a real threat ...
Tis heartening to see peeps fight and aspire fer liberty and freedom of expression ...but I fear fer the future ...
Hope and pray it works out...for everyone ...
Spot on with that. I think it might be frying pan to fire time. I hope not but i am pretty sure radicals will move in the same as happened in Iran after the Shar was deposed.
Its looks likely doesn`t it ...god only knows the repercussions ....the whole situation is bloody scary to me ..and I don`t think I`m being alarmist ...hope I`m wrong tho ...
The top brass in uniform are very worried about how it may go. All the cuts going on, we have no planes on our aircraft carriers and revolution in multiple Islamic country's! I am all for democracy but it won't come easily and you can bet money one or two states will have a heavy fundamental influence. "
Blockading the Suez canal ...
Remember the effect OPEC had when it had a paddy and limited oil 1973...
Couple of things at least ...besides all out war with Israel ...jeez !!.. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Wabbism as I have understood is Saudi sourced/funded so again then the West has itself to blame.....and lots of innocents to pay the price for
Correctumondo.....a look to see the influence of Wabbism is scary ...
Wahington has known about it fer years ...House of Saud just about keeping a lid on it ....
As ever its realpolitik..."
Uk as well as USA have supported (Saud family) them for all these years ....oil? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wabbism as I have understood is Saudi sourced/funded so again then the West has itself to blame.....and lots of innocents to pay the price for
Correctumondo.....a look to see the influence of Wabbism is scary ...
Wahington has known about it fer years ...House of Saud just about keeping a lid on it ....
As ever its realpolitik...
Uk as well as USA have supported (Saud family) them for all these years ....oil?"
Business and oil ...yeah ...cynical but true ... |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"Wabbism as I have understood is Saudi sourced/funded so again then the West has itself to blame.....and lots of innocents to pay the price for
Correctumondo.....a look to see the influence of Wabbism is scary ...
Wahington has known about it fer years ...House of Saud just about keeping a lid on it ....
As ever its realpolitik...
Uk as well as USA have supported (Saud family) them for all these years ....oil?"
Its a lot more than just oil. Oil may be a necessity but there are a lot of problems in the area and have been since 1945. I think the west has tried to manipulate to some extent but all political and religious groups have going back through time. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Wabbism as I have understood is Saudi sourced/funded so again then the West has itself to blame.....and lots of innocents to pay the price for
Correctumondo.....a look to see the influence of Wabbism is scary ...
Wahington has known about it fer years ...House of Saud just about keeping a lid on it ....
As ever its realpolitik...
Uk as well as USA have supported (Saud family) them for all these years ....oil?
Its a lot more than just oil. Oil may be a necessity but there are a lot of problems in the area and have been since 1945. I think the west has tried to manipulate to some extent but all political and religious groups have going back through time. "
been going back to the crusades and before yes......hopefully now the peoples will actually shuck their dictators and have democracy without the religious elemant playing too strong a part....as is now happening in a lot of midddle east |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wabbism as I have understood is Saudi sourced/funded so again then the West has itself to blame.....and lots of innocents to pay the price for
Correctumondo.....a look to see the influence of Wabbism is scary ...
Wahington has known about it fer years ...House of Saud just about keeping a lid on it ....
As ever its realpolitik...
Uk as well as USA have supported (Saud family) them for all these years ....oil?
Its a lot more than just oil. Oil may be a necessity but there are a lot of problems in the area and have been since 1945. I think the west has tried to manipulate to some extent but all political and religious groups have going back through time. "
As a historical view you`re prolly spot on ....carving up the region in straight lines hasn`t helped a all ...
Its a battleground t`ween Sunni and Shia`s I guess ..... |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"Wabbism as I have understood is Saudi sourced/funded so again then the West has itself to blame.....and lots of innocents to pay the price for
Correctumondo.....a look to see the influence of Wabbism is scary ...
Wahington has known about it fer years ...House of Saud just about keeping a lid on it ....
As ever its realpolitik...
Uk as well as USA have supported (Saud family) them for all these years ....oil?
Its a lot more than just oil. Oil may be a necessity but there are a lot of problems in the area and have been since 1945. I think the west has tried to manipulate to some extent but all political and religious groups have going back through time.
As a historical view you`re prolly spot on ....carving up the region in straight lines hasn`t helped a all ...
Its a battleground t`ween Sunni and Shia`s I guess ....."
It was hell when i was out there in the 90s and there was real hatred for each factor as well as Christians and the west in general. And from what friends out there say its worse now as well. |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"Wabbism as I have understood is Saudi sourced/funded so again then the West has itself to blame.....and lots of innocents to pay the price for
Correctumondo.....a look to see the influence of Wabbism is scary ...
Wahington has known about it fer years ...House of Saud just about keeping a lid on it ....
As ever its realpolitik...
Uk as well as USA have supported (Saud family) them for all these years ....oil?
Its a lot more than just oil. Oil may be a necessity but there are a lot of problems in the area and have been since 1945. I think the west has tried to manipulate to some extent but all political and religious groups have going back through time.
been going back to the crusades and before yes......hopefully now the peoples will actually shuck their dictators and have democracy without the religious elemant playing too strong a part....as is now happening in a lot of midddle east "
From my experience out there its really worrying. The man with the biggest gun usually wins which isn't good. |
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It reminds me of watching the Soviet and East European states fallin 1989.Like then there will,i think, be a number of different outcomes.From the peaceful resolution in Germany,to the horrific civil war in Yugoslavia. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wabbism as I have understood is Saudi sourced/funded so again then the West has itself to blame.....and lots of innocents to pay the price for
Correctumondo.....a look to see the influence of Wabbism is scary ...
Wahington has known about it fer years ...House of Saud just about keeping a lid on it ....
As ever its realpolitik...
Uk as well as USA have supported (Saud family) them for all these years ....oil?
Its a lot more than just oil. Oil may be a necessity but there are a lot of problems in the area and have been since 1945. I think the west has tried to manipulate to some extent but all political and religious groups have going back through time.
As a historical view you`re prolly spot on ....carving up the region in straight lines hasn`t helped a all ...
Its a battleground t`ween Sunni and Shia`s I guess .....
It was hell when i was out there in the 90s and there was real hatred for each factor as well as Christians and the west in general. And from what friends out there say its worse now as well. "
I can`t begin to imagine ...tho I`ve spoken to a few soldiers and I live close to 40 commando ...they don`t paint a pretty picture ...
What some peeps don`t quite get, is to some fundalmentalists ....any form of democracy is an afront ...its the path of man ...not the scripture of god...its they`re greatest wish to annihilate democracies ...imagine those buggers if an Arab countries go the western route....
Alot of Saudi money has gone into funding this fundalmentalism ....its influence is all over the middle East ..it doesn`t bode well.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's intereresting to note that whenever Five Live or the BBC broadcast a conversation from within these M/East countries in rebellion that it is invariably a woman who has got the message out - and she sounds like someone desperately wanting freedom, and they always say, "we want what you have over there." Which leads me to now consider tha the 'war' on Islam is one we created. Those muslims dying for freedom are not doing it for al-quaida etc, they are doing it for THEMSELVES.
We have been fed so much shit about muslim extremism that we are blind to the truth - they just want to live, raise their children and work - the same as we do over here. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's intereresting to note that whenever Five Live or the BBC broadcast a conversation from within these M/East countries in rebellion that it is invariably a woman who has got the message out - and she sounds like someone desperately wanting freedom, and they always say, "we want what you have over there." Which leads me to now consider tha the 'war' on Islam is one we created. Those muslims dying for freedom are not doing it for al-quaida etc, they are doing it for THEMSELVES.
We have been fed so much shit about muslim extremism that we are blind to the truth - they just want to live, raise their children and work - the same as we do over here."
Erm ...lol...I can`t begin to see how you work all that out Wishy with respect ....fundalmentalism ain`t a conspiracy ..its a fact ...jeez!!.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's intereresting to note that whenever Five Live or the BBC broadcast a conversation from within these M/East countries in rebellion that it is invariably a woman who has got the message out - and she sounds like someone desperately wanting freedom, and they always say, "we want what you have over there." Which leads me to now consider tha the 'war' on Islam is one we created. Those muslims dying for freedom are not doing it for al-quaida etc, they are doing it for THEMSELVES.
We have been fed so much shit about muslim extremism that we are blind to the truth - they just want to live, raise their children and work - the same as we do over here.
Erm ...lol...I can`t begin to see how you work all that out Wishy with respect ....fundalmentalism ain`t a conspiracy ..its a fact ...jeez!!.."
Yeah, but there has to be a way to blame Tony Blair, doesn't there?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I was just saying that listening to these women somehow managing to get a call out and they sound like anyone normal just crying out to be allowed to live in freedom.
We only see what our press want us to see, and in the main, most westerners think that if they went to a muslim country we be tortured etc etc.. the normal everyday average muslim just wants to be free. That's what I'm picking up from this - and its reassuring to know we're not heading for WW3. |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"It's intereresting to note that whenever Five Live or the BBC broadcast a conversation from within these M/East countries in rebellion that it is invariably a woman who has got the message out - and she sounds like someone desperately wanting freedom, and they always say, "we want what you have over there." Which leads me to now consider tha the 'war' on Islam is one we created. Those muslims dying for freedom are not doing it for al-quaida etc, they are doing it for THEMSELVES.
We have been fed so much shit about muslim extremism that we are blind to the truth - they just want to live, raise their children and work - the same as we do over here."
Total bollocks wishy you haven't been there and I have and there is real hatred out there. Not all hate granted but a bloody lot of them do and that's a fact. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's intereresting to note that whenever Five Live or the BBC broadcast a conversation from within these M/East countries in rebellion that it is invariably a woman who has got the message out - and she sounds like someone desperately wanting freedom, and they always say, "we want what you have over there." Which leads me to now consider tha the 'war' on Islam is one we created. Those muslims dying for freedom are not doing it for al-quaida etc, they are doing it for THEMSELVES.
We have been fed so much shit about muslim extremism that we are blind to the truth - they just want to live, raise their children and work - the same as we do over here.
Total bollocks wishy you haven't been there and I have and there is real hatred out there. Not all hate granted but a bloody lot of them do and that's a fact."
And is that because they've been spoonfed proganda about us as much as we've been spoonfed about them?
I'm only saying what I've been hearing on Five Live, these demonstrators getting a call out to the West and they sound just like a normal human being.
There has to be more to it than West hates East, I only hate those who would kill me, they must feel the same, don't they? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
And is that because they've been spoonfed proganda about us as much as we've been spoonfed about them?
..........."
Remember about being able to lead a horse to water but not being able to make it drink?
There's nothing anywhere says anyone has to swallow everything they're spoonfed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was just saying that listening to these women somehow managing to get a call out and they sound like anyone normal just crying out to be allowed to live in freedom.
We only see what our press want us to see, and in the main, most westerners think that if they went to a muslim country we be tortured etc etc.. the normal everyday average muslim just wants to be free. That's what I'm picking up from this - and its reassuring to know we're not heading for WW3."
I know where you`re coming from Wishy ....its true some of the people want the same freedoms we enjoy ...its a heartfelt plea....
That thou is somewhat missing the point ...its the struggle for power thats in question..and the type of power that emerges..and the political ramifications...
And its true that most Muslims are moderate ...however history shows us many lessons ...
Theres a modern world at my fingertips ....you don`t have to partake in any press media to be informed chap... |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"It's intereresting to note that whenever Five Live or the BBC broadcast a conversation from within these M/East countries in rebellion that it is invariably a woman who has got the message out - and she sounds like someone desperately wanting freedom, and they always say, "we want what you have over there." Which leads me to now consider tha the 'war' on Islam is one we created. Those muslims dying for freedom are not doing it for al-quaida etc, they are doing it for THEMSELVES.
We have been fed so much shit about muslim extremism that we are blind to the truth - they just want to live, raise their children and work - the same as we do over here.
Total bollocks wishy you haven't been there and I have and there is real hatred out there. Not all hate granted but a bloody lot of them do and that's a fact.
And is that because they've been spoonfed proganda about us as much as we've been spoonfed about them?
I'm only saying what I've been hearing on Five Live, these demonstrators getting a call out to the West and they sound just like a normal human being.
There has to be more to it than West hates East, I only hate those who would kill me, they must feel the same, don't they?"
They will act like that though lf they want help but don’t be fooled there is a lot of hatred towards the west. It has been drummed into them through religious schools for decades and they see us and others support Israel. Believe me there is no love lost. I spent a fair bit of time out there and there was more hate and bitterness than I ever got in Northern Ireland I can tell you. If you too religion out of it then maybe things would be easier but you can’t. Goggle what happens to Christians and Christian churches out there and it isn’t good. I am more than a little concerned where all this will lead to and in my heart I don’t think it will end well.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's intereresting to note that whenever Five Live or the BBC broadcast a conversation from within these M/East countries in rebellion that it is invariably a woman who has got the message out - and she sounds like someone desperately wanting freedom, and they always say, "we want what you have over there." Which leads me to now consider tha the 'war' on Islam is one we created. Those muslims dying for freedom are not doing it for al-quaida etc, they are doing it for THEMSELVES.
We have been fed so much shit about muslim extremism that we are blind to the truth - they just want to live, raise their children and work - the same as we do over here.
Total bollocks wishy you haven't been there and I have and there is real hatred out there. Not all hate granted but a bloody lot of them do and that's a fact.
And is that because they've been spoonfed proganda about us as much as we've been spoonfed about them?
I'm only saying what I've been hearing on Five Live, these demonstrators getting a call out to the West and they sound just like a normal human being.
There has to be more to it than West hates East, I only hate those who would kill me, they must feel the same, don't they?"
Unfortunately ...no Wishy ...theres a very powerful hatred of any western democracy ...they do want to destroy us ..not all ...but the peeps with a growing real influence .. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's quite sad that if what you both are saying is true, then keeping Gadaffi et al in place would be the safest thing to do for the West. That's shockingly sad. |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"It's quite sad that if what you both are saying is true, then keeping Gadaffi et al in place would be the safest thing to do for the West. That's shockingly sad."
At the moment possibly yes and i really hate to say that as he is an evil bastard. Sadam was in a similar position till he came all the bollocks and started gassing people and the rest. Iraq isn't a bed of roses and that's with all the troops in. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Saddam could have gassed his entire country and tbh I don't think the West would have batted an eyelid. He came a cropper when he decided that Kuwaiti oil would be nice to get hold of. |
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Gaddafi.....Mubarak.....King Abdullah of Jordan.....The Bahrain Royal Family....
All juggled and kept in place by successive UK and US governments for a very good reason....
Better the devil you know than what bubbles under the surface |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's quite sad that if what you both are saying is true, then keeping Gadaffi et al in place would be the safest thing to do for the West. That's shockingly sad."
Thats prolly what alot of the citizens of these countries are thinking just now ....status quo ....this could all erupt ....hopefully sense will prevail ....but the hatred tween factions is old old blood .....the last 50 or 60 years have only been a rest between mass bloodshed ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" ............
Unfortunately ...no Wishy ...theres a very powerful hatred of any western democracy ...they do want to destroy us ..not all ...but the peeps with a growing real influence .."
It's true. Not ALL of them want to destroy US but the ones who want to destroy US want to destroy ALL of us. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" ............
Unfortunately ...no Wishy ...theres a very powerful hatred of any western democracy ...they do want to destroy us ..not all ...but the peeps with a growing real influence ..
It's true. Not ALL of them want to destroy US but the ones who want to destroy US want to destroy ALL of us."
Scarily true ...we as in western democracies are a mortal sin against God ...let alone whats been said about Israel and the Palestines.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Gaddafi.....Mubarak.....King Abdullah of Jordan.....The Bahrain Royal Family....
All juggled and kept in place by successive UK and US governments for a very good reason....
Better the devil you know than what bubbles under the surface"
Don`t forget the Saudis... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Saudis are what bubbles under the surface in my opinion...."
I agree ....some serious commentators give the House of Saud another decade in power ...what comes out of that ...well jeez !!!
A very serious topic fer dicussion ...
Its also interesting in a macabre way..the use of the internet...twitter etc thats a defining influence ... |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"Saddam could have gassed his entire country and tbh I don't think the West would have batted an eyelid. He came a cropper when he decided that Kuwaiti oil would be nice to get hold of."
That was just the start. A cocky fucker did the same with the sudetenland in 1938 and we did nothing.
The guy was all up for Scudding Israel and all hell would have let loose if he did. If the west hadn't gone in god knows what would have happened. Oil was a factor but far less than you would think in making a decision. Fear of what could happen next was the reason for what happened with the US and the rest. |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"The Saudis are what bubbles under the surface in my opinion....
I agree ....some serious commentators give the House of Saud another decade in power ...what comes out of that ...well jeez !!!
A very serious topic fer dicussion ...
Its also interesting in a macabre way..the use of the internet...twitter etc thats a defining influence ..."
They play both hands and try to give an image of supporting both sides. They don't like us but know they need western support. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Read the qur'an, all the answers to all the mad shit that goes on are in there."
I disagree ...moderate Islam teaces tolerance ..love thy neighbour ..peace..
Extremists can be found in any religion ...
Its the misrepresentation that gets the headlines .....not the benefits of faith to countless millions .. |
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"Read the qur'an, all the answers to all the mad shit that goes on are in there."
I don't think you could be more wrong with all due respect....maybe you should read up on 'Salafists' and you might start to have a differing view on the matter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Saudis are what bubbles under the surface in my opinion....
I agree ....some serious commentators give the House of Saud another decade in power ...what comes out of that ...well jeez !!!
A very serious topic fer dicussion ...
Its also interesting in a macabre way..the use of the internet...twitter etc thats a defining influence ...
They play both hands and try to give an image of supporting both sides. They don't like us but know they need western support."
Its realpolitik all round isn`t it ....9/11 was funded by Saudi money ....both sides know that ..on instance from Washington the Saudis look tough on crackdowns on militant elements in there country ....yet its more window dressing ..
Washington is stuffed full of Saudi wealth..its all a quid pro quo ...
And al this discussion without mentioning arms ....Hague was quick of the mark to stop export licenses to Bahrain ....
Jeez !! full of intrigue ...deals ..politics ...maneavorings ...power ...national interests ...
Not being flippant ...but who needs fucking soap operas ...only this is real ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".....not the benefits of faith to countless millions ..
Benefits of faith? That'll be a short paragraph."
Its brings something indefinable to those that practise a true faith ...another thread tho surely ..
I was short .. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i think it's amazing....tunisia, egypt, bahrain, libya...decades of oppression coming to an end...and the people are doing it for themselves....a ripple effect causing an uprising,
how to bring peace to the middle east
Egypt.....the only reason that there has been any sort of fractured peace between Israel and it's neighbours is that Egypt has been quietly tolerant of the State of Israel for a couple of decades now, they and Jordan hold that part of the world together and away from all out war with Israel.
Is it really a thing to celebrate that the only credible political opposition in Egypt is the 'Muslim Brotherhood' political party?
For the last Five years they have openly criticised Mubarak for keeping peace with Israel.
Maybe not such a positive thing for peace in the Middle East?......time will tell, but I personally worry.
"
Am glad to see I am not the only one worried about what has been happening in North Africa & the Middle East. |
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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago
sandwell |
What happens in the middle east now will centre on what Israel does. One ill advised move will swing the arabs accept a more fundamentalist government. Never underestimate the hatred that exists in the arab world for the state of Israel(even amongst 'moderates').
There is already proof that the current military interim government of Egypt is leaning towards a more anti-Israeli stance. Last night they allowed an Iranian frigate and supply ship to pass through he Suez canal. Something that has not happened since 1979.
Add to that that the Israeli IDF is not as powerful/good as it was in the 70s and 80s and that western military strength has been caught on the hop by our involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq, we have a situation where a 'military solution' might be seen as an option.
An open alliance between Egypt/Iran/Saudi will have Israel reaching for the nuclear trigger and history has shown us that the Israeli's have no problems with pre-emptive strikes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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And Cameron`s doing a whistle stop tour of the Gulf ....and declaring a spirit of optomism ...
Thats not a dig at Tories ..rather a statement of incredulity ....
Egypt couldn`t deny Iran warships access to the canal, unless theres a condition of war ...but Iran is definitely testing the waters of middle Eastern politics ...yer right Israel ain`t happy ..
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