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Should we bring back capital punishment
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"Do you feel our laws are outdated? Do you think as the society we are today that capital punishment should be introduced back in to Great Britain?" no... because if you get it wrong then you have killed one innocent person too many..... | |||
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"Im actually all for it if it can be proved 100% But i know life dont always work that way so my solution is jail em forever and that means forever xx "But they don't get jailed forever that's my point 25 years isn't life to me. Life to me is staying there forever until you die. | |||
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"But if you could prove like the Ian Huntley and the Yorkshire Ripper then would you then? Why should they be allowed to live? " If someone could put a well considered moral arguement advocating the premise that killing people to teach others that killing is wrong I`d be prepared to listen..... | |||
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"Im actually all for it if it can be proved 100% But i know life dont always work that way so my solution is jail em forever and that means forever xx "I am too. I think they should bring it back along with capital punishment in schools. I got smacked as a kid. I didn't dare speak to my teachers the way the kids in schools do now coz I knew I'd get triple punishment when I got home if I dared! | |||
"But don't you think if there was a deterent like that out there knowing if you killed someone in cold blood you'd lose your life would that keep crime down?" If that were the case, countries that do have the death penalty would have redundant gas chambers, electric chairs etc...they don't!  | |||
"Well i think it should be brought back :D How many murders would occour if they ultimately knew what there punnishment would be if/when they were caught?? How many peoople would get stabbed/mugged etc... If you do nothing wrong youve got nothing to worry about. Forensics these days are pretty shit hot and also what ive never understood is that if they can use lie detector tests on Jezzer on a morning, why have they never used them in courts?" Because it's not 100% reliable, that's why no court in any land to my knowledge accepts it. I get nervous if I see a policeman. If he had an hand held lie detector and asked me my name and I gave it, it would show I was lying through my teeth.  | |||
"An emphatic no! I have little confidence in the judiciary as it it. Sentencing doesn't always seem fair. .................. " Sentencing doesn't aways seem fair because, in almost all cases, we (the general public) aren't in possession of all the facts. Unless you've sat through the whole trial* you can't have more than a media view of what happened and that, quite simply, isn't enough to judge the appropriateness or otherwise of a sentence. * even if you do sit through an entire trial you may still not hear every piece of evidence because some evidence is agreed in advance between both sides and isn't led in court. | |||
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"An emphatic no! I have little confidence in the judiciary as it it. Sentencing doesn't always seem fair. .................. Sentencing doesn't aways seem fair because, in almost all cases, we (the general public) aren't in possession of all the facts. Unless you've sat through the whole trial* you can't have more than a media view of what happened and that, quite simply, isn't enough to judge the appropriateness or otherwise of a sentence. * even if you do sit through an entire trial you may still not hear every piece of evidence because some evidence is agreed in advance between both sides and isn't led in court." I'm well aware of that - hence the "seem" fair! | |||
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"An emphatic no! I have little confidence in the judiciary as it it. Sentencing doesn't always seem fair. .................. Sentencing doesn't aways seem fair because, in almost all cases, we (the general public) aren't in possession of all the facts. Unless you've sat through the whole trial* you can't have more than a media view of what happened and that, quite simply, isn't enough to judge the appropriateness or otherwise of a sentence. * even if you do sit through an entire trial you may still not hear every piece of evidence because some evidence is agreed in advance between both sides and isn't led in court. I'm well aware of that - hence the "seem" fair! " So why have little confidence in our judges when you accept you don't have all the facts? | |||
"An emphatic no! I have little confidence in the judiciary as it it. Sentencing doesn't always seem fair. .................. Sentencing doesn't aways seem fair because, in almost all cases, we (the general public) aren't in possession of all the facts. Unless you've sat through the whole trial* you can't have more than a media view of what happened and that, quite simply, isn't enough to judge the appropriateness or otherwise of a sentence. * even if you do sit through an entire trial you may still not hear every piece of evidence because some evidence is agreed in advance between both sides and isn't led in court. I'm well aware of that - hence the "seem" fair! So why have little confidence in our judges when you accept you don't have all the facts?" Do I have to explain my opinions to you?!!  | |||
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"Ooops, I didn't actually mean we should kill the naughty kids in schools. I meant corporal, naturally. Freudian slip "Mmmm thats called nippin it in the bud lol xx | |||
"Ooops, I didn't actually mean we should kill the naughty kids in schools. I meant corporal, naturally. Freudian slip
Mmmm thats called nippin it in the bud lol xx "Indeed  | |||
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"One problem with the will it wont it deter debate - the should we should we not kill killers argument IS People seem to overlook that not all crimes are comitted by the equally logical , emotionally stable and sane who quietly pre-mediated their act over some time. " Exactly-very well put. | |||
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"Im actually all for it if it can be proved 100% But i know life dont always work that way so my solution is jail em forever and that means forever xx
I am too. I think they should bring it back along with capital punishment in schools. I got smacked as a kid. I didn't dare speak to my teachers the way the kids in schools do now coz I knew I'd get triple punishment when I got home if I dared! "i totally agree about schools-lie detecters can not be used because they are not 100% reliable and could let guilty people go free | |||
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"Do you feel our laws are outdated? Do you think as the society we are today that capital punishment should be introduced back in to Great Britain?" i asked the same thing last night | |||
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"But if you could prove like the Ian Huntley and the Yorkshire Ripper then would you then? Why should they be allowed to live? " and the problem is that for every Ian Huntley or Yorkshire Ripper, there would be a "guildford 4" or "Birmingham 6" or "Angela Canning" or "winston silcot" or loads and loads of others that i could mention.... | |||
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"Capital punishment and life meaning life is clearly a detterent that works in the crime free paradise that is the USA so clearly we need to introduce it here. Or possibly not... The current prison system does not work and we can all sit and work ourselves into a Daily Mail-esque hang the bastards frenzy or we could possibly think a little more freely that prisons should reform and that the people processed through that system should come out of it decent human beans. Capital punishment and brutalising prisoners has no place in a civilised society. And anyone that thinks prison is an easy deal is wrong." a lot of prisons these days are more of a training ground for more serious crimes,the statistic for people re-offending when released from prison is at an all time high its 81% of which 53% are more serious offences. in some cases prison sentences do not work in solving the problem of serious crime as these people dont care if they get sent to prison thats why they dont think twice about ruining some innocent persons life or even taking it, its these kind of people that the world would be a safer place without | |||
"NO...." ok , so you keep the ian huntleys of this world with your taxes on 3 meals a day an x box and free gym and when he or his kind is rehabilitated you can allow them into the hostel at the bottom of your street knowing fullwell that the system has done its job and they never reoffend! lethal injection is the way forward flogging for thieves castration and penis removal for rapists and dont get me started on those who park illegaly!! | |||
"NO.... ok , so you keep the ian huntleys of this world with your taxes on 3 meals a day an x box and free gym and when he or his kind is rehabilitated you can allow them into the hostel at the bottom of your street knowing fullwell that the system has done its job and they never reoffend! lethal injection is the way forward flogging for thieves castration and penis removal for rapists and dont get me started on those who park illegaly!! "If you castrate a rapist does it kill his sex drive ? Does he become passive or violent afterwards. Which is worse rape or death ? Do you cut off one bollock for mild rape and two bollocks for firmer rape and the whole crown jewels for full prolonged penetrative rape? What if an older woman rapes a younger male? What bit do we cut off her ? | |||
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"NO.... ok , so you keep the ian huntleys of this world with your taxes on 3 meals a day an x box and free gym and when he or his kind is rehabilitated you can allow them into the hostel at the bottom of your street knowing fullwell that the system has done its job and they never reoffend! her credit card lethal injection is the way forward flogging for thieves castration and penis removal for rapists and dont get me started on those who park illegaly!!
If you castrate a rapist does it kill his sex drive ? Does he become passive or violent afterwards. Which is worse rape or death ? Do you cut off one bollock for mild rape and two bollocks for firmer rape and the whole crown jewels for full prolonged penetrative rape?
What if an older woman rapes a younger male? What bit do we cut off her ?" | |||
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"How will making criminals break rocks in quarries improve anything?? "It will make the quarry floor level and none slippy fa vehicles xx | |||
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"yes we should but they would have to get it right?A conviction for the murder of a cinema manager, that sent a young Liverpool labourer to the gallows 53 years ago, was yesterday overturned by the court of appeal. George Kelly was executed at Walton jail on Merseyside in March 1950, following what was then the longest criminal trial in English legal history. His plea for clemency had been rejected by the home secretary of the day, James Chuter Ede. Announcing their decision yesterday, three appeal judges, Lord Justice Rix, Mr Justice Douglas Brown and Mr Justice Davis, concluded the original verdict was "unsafe". The case was the oldest referred to the criminal cases review commission, the statutory body that investigates alleged miscarriages of justice. The crown did not attempt to uphold the conviction. During the appeal, the judges heard that a statement given by a prosecution witness, claiming a man called Donald Johnson had confessed to committing the crime, had not been disclosed at the original trial. The crime for which Kelly was hanged shocked postwar Britain. Leonard Thomas, 44, manager of the Cameo Cinema in Wavertree, Liverpool, and his assistant, John Catterall, 30, were killed during a bungled burglary in March 1949. While the audience watched a thriller, a man in a brown coat, trilby hat and mask burst into the manager's first-floor office as the night's takings were being counted. Thomas was shot in the chest; Catterall, who arrived moments later, was hit in the hand, chest and back. The gunman panicked and fled, leaving the cash untouched. Pressure on the police for arrests mounted and as many as 65,000 people were questioned. An anonymous letter eventually led detectives to Kelly, a petty criminal nicknamed the "little Caesar of Lime Street", and Charles Connolly, then 26, who allegedly acted as lookout. In the first trial, which lasted 13 days, the jury failed to reach a verdict. The two men were then tried separately. Connolly pleaded guilty in February 1950 to robbery and conspiracy and was sentenced to 10 years in prison. He died in 1997, protesting his innocence. The court of appeal overturned both convictions, even though the crown opposed the application on behalf of Connolly. "However much the Cameo murders remain a mystery, we regard the circumstances of Kelly and Connolly's trials as a miscarriage of justice which must be deeply regretted," Lord Justice Rix said yesterday. During the hearing Orlando Pownall QC, for the crown, said Donald Johnson had told a man called Robert Graham, a serving prisoner, that he had been responsible for the shootings. Graham made a second statement to police several months later incriminating Kelly and Connolly and was later granted immediate release. But Graham's September 1949 statement implicating Johnson was not discovered until 1991 when a member of the public with an interest in the case was given access to Merseyside police files. The prosecution accepted that the document was genuine and in the absence of evidence to the contrary conceded that Graham must have spoken to Chief Inspector Herbert Balmer, one of the officers involved in the inquiry. Mr Pownall told the judges: "It is not proposed by the crown to dwell on any conspiracy theories... If there had been a conspiracy it seems unlikely anyone involved would have left that original document in a box to be found years later." Ch Insp Balmer, he said, like most of those involved in the case, had long since died. Kelly's daughter, Kathleen Hughes, left the courtroom in tears, refusing to comment. She had previously stated: "I have waited a long, long time for this day. I hope now I can give him a decent Christian burial, which I have previously been thwarted from doing." Robin Makin, the Kelly family's lawyer, said it was a "deplorable" situation. "George Kelly's brothers made efforts on his behalf from the time of the conviction in 1950 and there was nothing that could be done. There is tremendous concern about the way in which matters were handled at that time." Connolly's brother, Eddie, said afterwards: "A lot of doubters at the time will have been proven wrong today. We've known all along that they were innocent." " Excellent post..... | |||
"How will making criminals break rocks in quarries improve anything?? "It will teach them that crime leads to harsh punishments, rather than an enforced holiday at the taxpayers expense, in conditions that are often muche better than those endured by people who have worked hard all their lives. | |||
"How will making criminals break rocks in quarries improve anything??
It will teach them that crime leads to harsh punishments, rather than an enforced holiday at the taxpayers expense, in conditions that are often muche better than those endured by people who have worked hard all their lives."Ahh so you suggest it's an effective way to 'teach'...perhaps we should adopt it for schools too? | |||
"How will making criminals break rocks in quarries improve anything??
It will teach them that crime leads to harsh punishments, rather than an enforced holiday at the taxpayers expense, in conditions that are often muche better than those endured by people who have worked hard all their lives."Out of interest, where do you get your knowledge of the prison system from? I'm guessing hearsay and sensationalist journalism? | |||
"How will making criminals break rocks in quarries improve anything??
It will teach them that crime leads to harsh punishments, rather than an enforced holiday at the taxpayers expense, in conditions that are often muche better than those endured by people who have worked hard all their lives.
Out of interest, where do you get your knowledge of the prison system from?
I'm guessing hearsay and sensationalist journalism?"No. Three people (one a relative, one a friend, one an aquaintance), all in for various crimes, one relatively serious. | |||
"How will making criminals break rocks in quarries improve anything??
It will teach them that crime leads to harsh punishments, rather than an enforced holiday at the taxpayers expense, in conditions that are often muche better than those endured by people who have worked hard all their lives.
Ahh so you suggest it's an effective way to 'teach'...perhaps we should adopt it for schools too? "No, I think its a good way to punish, and hopefully to show them that crime is not the way forward. | |||
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"How will making criminals break rocks in quarries improve anything??
It will teach them that crime leads to harsh punishments, rather than an enforced holiday at the taxpayers expense, in conditions that are often muche better than those endured by people who have worked hard all their lives."That assumes that criminals and potential criminals consider the potential punishment before deciding to commit the crime and all the evidence is that that isn't so. What we used to call 'career' criminals never entertain the possibility they'll get caught and thus the tariff they might expect isn't a consideration and, as far as I recall, most crimes of extreme violence are spur of the moment events, often under the influence of drink or drugs, where no opportunity for consideration of the punishment is possible. | |||
"Going to Doncaster prison would be considered a punishment fer many ....3 to a cell.....sleeping in the toilets ...no pillows or toilet seats ...banged up 23 hours a day .... All facts....supportable by the prisons inspectorate .... I`m not offering an opinion of wether this is right or wrong ...tho fer someone who hasn`t paid their council tax or tele licence, this would appear harsh .. I mention it ...to counter the prison is routinely soft arguement ..." Or, just send them to Doncaster. | |||
"Let's put the elderly in jail and the criminals in a nursing home. This way the seniors would have access to showers, hobbies and walks. They'd receive unlimited free prescriptions, dental and medical treatment, wheel chairs etc and they'd receive money instead of paying it out. They would have constant video monitoring, so they could be helped instantly, if they fell, or needed assistance. Bedding would be washed twice a week, and all clothing would be ironed and returned to them. A guard would check on them every 20 minutes and bring their meals and snacks to their cell. They would have family visits in a suite built for that purpose. They would have access to a library, weight room, spiritual counseling, pool and education. Simple clothing, shoes, slippers, PJ's and legal aid would be free, on request. Private, secure rooms for all, with an exercise outdoor yard, with gardens. Each senior could have a PC a TV radio and daily phone calls. There would be a board of directors to hear complaints, and the guards would have a code of conduct that would be strictly adhered to. The "criminals" would get cold food, be left all alone and unsupervised. Lights off at 8pm, and showers once a week. Live in a tiny room and pay £900.00 per month and have no hope of ever getting out. " Yeah ...the thought of wheelchairs makes me swell with indignation s`well...... Let the fuckers crawl..... | |||
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"They should have capital punishment for murderers/rapists. However, it should be on a death row principle, were the guilty person is jailed for a certain time, on the off chance that new evidence comes to light or there's an appeal, not just take them from court and string them up. They should definately bring back corporal punishment in schools and the birch for criminal yobs. Nothing teaches you like pain and considering most yobs these days are cowards pain is just the deterrent they need. An eye for an eye etc!
XXXX"Perhaps if you use the 'an eye for an eye' argument you should use all of it...because it doesn't support your argument at all | |||
"Let's put the elderly in jail and the criminals in a nursing home. This way the seniors would have access to showers, hobbies and walks. They'd receive unlimited free prescriptions, dental and medical treatment, wheel chairs etc and they'd receive money instead of paying it out. They would have constant video monitoring, so they could be helped instantly, if they fell, or needed assistance. Bedding would be washed twice a week, and all clothing would be ironed and returned to them. A guard would check on them every 20 minutes and bring their meals and snacks to their cell. They would have family visits in a suite built for that purpose. They would have access to a library, weight room, spiritual counseling, pool and education. Simple clothing, shoes, slippers, PJ's and legal aid would be free, on request. Private, secure rooms for all, with an exercise outdoor yard, with gardens. Each senior could have a PC a TV radio and daily phone calls. There would be a board of directors to hear complaints, and the guards would have a code of conduct that would be strictly adhered to. The "criminals" would get cold food, be left all alone and unsupervised. Lights off at 8pm, and showers once a week. Live in a tiny room and pay £900.00 per month and have no hope of ever getting out. " You'd think that particular Facebook group would have more than 60 members. | |||
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"Yes. But not the death penalty. Being from Northern Ireland i know for a fact that capital punishment works,,,for the right reasons of course. Not just because of your religion/beliefs. Rapings, muggings, etc are still to this day punished by punishment beatings, and they tend to work. x " The only absolute guarantee about capital punishment is that the person who has been executed will never commit another crime. | |||
"We need to stop this namby pamby society we live in, and stop treating criminals like the victims they clearly aren't, laydown the law and stick to sentencing laws if you get 2 years for crime thats what you serve not 6months, then make it hard time, but we tend to treat criminals like the poor lost souls of society, they know right from wrong they know the system doesn't work so they take advantage of it, .............." If prisoners were made to serve the whole sentence we'd need far more prisons than we have at the moment. Ken Clarke has recently announced he's planning to close a number of prisons in England. | |||
"Let's put the elderly in jail and the criminals in a nursing home. This way the seniors would have access to showers, hobbies and walks. They'd receive unlimited free prescriptions, dental and medical treatment, wheel chairs etc and they'd receive money instead of paying it out. They would have constant video monitoring, so they could be helped instantly, if they fell, or needed assistance. Bedding would be washed twice a week, and all clothing would be ironed and returned to them. A guard would check on them every 20 minutes and bring their meals and snacks to their cell. They would have family visits in a suite built for that purpose. They would have access to a library, weight room, spiritual counseling, pool and education. Simple clothing, shoes, slippers, PJ's and legal aid would be free, on request. Private, secure rooms for all, with an exercise outdoor yard, with gardens. Each senior could have a PC a TV radio and daily phone calls. There would be a board of directors to hear complaints, and the guards would have a code of conduct that would be strictly adhered to. The "criminals" would get cold food, be left all alone and unsupervised. Lights off at 8pm, and showers once a week. Live in a tiny room and pay £900.00 per month and have no hope of ever getting out. You'd think that particular Facebook group would have more than 60 members." perhaps a few inaccuracies and exaggerations, only the worst criminals get the 5 star treatment you know. But illustrates the contrast wonderfully. I do feel the same. Seems to me that it's a "who is the most agressive and shouts loudest gets what they want" society these days. Anyone else noticing that? | |||
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"We need to stop this namby pamby society we live in, and stop treating criminals like the victims they clearly aren't, laydown the law and stick to sentencing laws if you get 2 years for crime thats what you serve not 6months, then make it hard time, but we tend to treat criminals like the poor lost souls of society, they know right from wrong they know the system doesn't work so they take advantage of it, Public flogging should be brought in, that would teach muggers and vandals, petty thieves, that there is a consequence for there actions." yes they should get what they are given and it should not be made easy I agree. Do you not think that reaching out a helping hand to very young people to prevent them ending up this way could be a valid investment though? | |||
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"Yes. But not the death penalty. Being from Northern Ireland i know for a fact that capital punishment works,,,for the right reasons of course. Not just because of your religion/beliefs. Rapings, muggings, etc are still to this day punished by punishment beatings, and they tend to work. x The only absolute guarantee about capital punishment is that the person who has been executed will never commit another crime. " is that such a bad thing | |||
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"........... The only absolute guarantee about capital punishment is that the person who has been executed will never commit another crime. is that such a bad thing "Assuming you've executed the right person?????????? | |||
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"Theres some evidence that restorative justice works ...... I`ve felt fer sometime its the breakdown in communities that foster alot of the dissatisfaction in the judicial process.... In my understanding the role of the victim and offender are given priority over abstract principles of law .... Moreover it fosters a dialogue between the victim and offender ....the offender faces his crime in the face ....and is encouraged to make retribution to the victim and community... It seems the victims are most satisified with this form of justice...communities start talking again ...and offenders take accountability with regard to the harm done .... Just a thought ...." Yes there are examples of how this has worked. Trouble is will it be "flavour of the month" and dumped for another trend or "due to funding cuts". | |||
" In a modern civilised democracy its laws are ordinarily defined by its moral and ethical values ..... So I`d like to know , how its morally defensible to kill people as a means to teach others that killing other people is wrong .... I`m curious....." Capital punishment as a lesson to others doesn't seem to be what it's about. You need only look at the parts of the US where capital punishment still exists to see capital punishment doesn't put people off killing. | |||
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"Im actually all for it if it can be proved 100% But i know life dont always work that way so my solution is jail em forever and that means forever xx
I am too. I think they should bring it back along with capital punishment in schools. I got smacked as a kid. I didn't dare speak to my teachers the way the kids in schools do now coz I knew I'd get triple punishment when I got home if I dared! "I'd like to think this was a comedy post but I bet it's not. I can't imagine what sort of schools would have capital punishment. Do you want a list of all the innocent people who'd be dead if we still had capital punishment? Start with the Guildford four and work onwards. The Butetown Three would be long gone. So would Colin Stagg. It's a favourite topic of mine, and I've met people, like Paddy Hill, who we'd have wrongly murdered if we had capital punishment. As for deterrence theory (They wouldn't do it if they knew we had capital punishment) well, they fact that we used to have to hang people makes a nonsense of that theory. | |||
"Capital punishment and life meaning life is clearly a detterent that works in the crime free paradise that is the USA so clearly we need to introduce it here. Or possibly not... The current prison system does not work and we can all sit and work ourselves into a Daily Mail-esque hang the bastards frenzy or we could possibly think a little more freely that prisons should reform and that the people processed through that system should come out of it decent human beans. Capital punishment and brutalising prisoners has no place in a civilised society. And anyone that thinks prison is an easy deal is wrong." It starts earlier than that - Save the Children! how many of you support child charities sucha as Childline I wonder? | |||
"Theres some evidence that restorative justice works ...... I`ve felt fer sometime its the breakdown in communities that foster alot of the dissatisfaction in the judicial process.... In my understanding the role of the victim and offender are given priority over abstract principles of law .... Moreover it fosters a dialogue between the victim and offender ....the offender faces his crime in the face ....and is encouraged to make retribution to the victim and community... It seems the victims are most satisified with this form of justice...communities start talking again ...and offenders take accountability with regard to the harm done .... Just a thought .... Yes there are examples of how this has worked. Trouble is will it be "flavour of the month" and dumped for another trend or "due to funding cuts"." It ain`t a soft option at all ....but for some crimes it seems to be justice best served ......probally some truth for what you say s`well..... | |||
"Its all total irelevent anyways. We or parliament cannot bring back hanging or any form of capital punishment . "Everyone loves arguing about it though. It's a lot easier than broaching the real issues. How to avoid babies and children growing up into this kind of person. (waits for the castrate the parents post) | |||
"Its all total irelevent anyways. We or parliament cannot bring back hanging or any form of capital punishment . "Only so long as Britain remains a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights. | |||
" In a modern civilised democracy its laws are ordinarily defined by its moral and ethical values ..... So I`d like to know , how its morally defensible to kill people as a means to teach others that killing other people is wrong .... I`m curious..... Capital punishment as a lesson to others doesn't seem to be what it's about. You need only look at the parts of the US where capital punishment still exists to see capital punishment doesn't put people off killing. " I thought the premise of capital punishment seved as a deterrent s`well as a punishment ..... I aven`t come across a good moral arguement yet? But I agree the deterrent of death doesn`t seem to ever been a deterrent(sic) .... | |||
"Do you feel our laws are outdated? Do you think as the society we are today that capital punishment should be introduced back in to Great Britain?" NO There are to many fuck up made by the system to possably bring this back | |||
"Its all total irelevent anyways. We or parliament cannot bring back hanging or any form of capital punishment .
Everyone loves arguing about it though. It's a lot easier than broaching the real issues.
How to avoid babies and children growing up into this kind of person.
(waits for the castrate the parents post) "Babies and children are O.K, until they start mixing with kids who have learned that they can do whatever you want to others with little or no fear of punishment, then its "monkey see, monkey do". The bottom line is......they do it because they can! XXXX | |||
"They should have capital punishment for murderers/rapists. However, it should be on a death row principle, were the guilty person is jailed for a certain time, on the off chance that new evidence comes to light or there's an appeal, not just take them from court and string them up. " so how long is "guilty for a long enough time"... and i'll show you cases where you would still have killed innocent people..... so the question that none of the people who advocate the death penalty ever answer is this? so what do you say to the family who relative was killed because someone got it wrong? ooops? | |||
"I think that it should be brought back.. things have developed so far that those that you know 100% have done it.. as lets face it some are proud of it.. So I am all for it.. Katie.x" and again i'll answer the with the same statement... you show me where you think it should be "100%" from... and i'll give you cases where you would have killed innocent people!! so again... what do you say to those families? | |||
"Its all total irelevent anyways. We or parliament cannot bring back hanging or any form of capital punishment .
Everyone loves arguing about it though. It's a lot easier than broaching the real issues.
How to avoid babies and children growing up into this kind of person.
(waits for the castrate the parents post)
Babies and children are O.K, until they start mixing with kids who have learned that they can do whatever you want to others with little or no fear of punishment, then its "monkey see, monkey do".
The bottom line is......they do it because they can!
XXXX"Yes, I agree and at the moment this attitide is just being reinforced. What about re-empowering discipline at school? Place to start? | |||
"Babies and children are O.K, until they start mixing with kids who have learned that they can do whatever you want to others with little or no fear of punishment, then its "monkey see, monkey do". The bottom line is......they do it because they can! XXXX" Children who have been properly brought up usually manage to mix with 'delinquent' toddlers and beyond with ending up as badly behaved as the others they meet at nursery or primary school. | |||
"They should have capital punishment for murderers/rapists. However, it should be on a death row principle, were the guilty person is jailed for a certain time, on the off chance that new evidence comes to light or there's an appeal, not just take them from court and string them up. so how long is "guilty for a long enough time"... and i'll show you cases where you would still have killed innocent people..... so the question that none of the people who advocate the death penalty ever answer is this? so what do you say to the family who relative was killed because someone got it wrong? ooops? " You`ll never get an answer worth its salt methinks ..... | |||
" ........ Place to start?" The home. | |||
"But if you could prove like the Ian Huntley and the Yorkshire Ripper then would you then? Why should they be allowed to live? " the guilford four was proven to be guilty, the police had everything they needed for a open and shut case when they was sentance the judge even commented that if hanging was still law he would have no problem letting then hang Carol Richardson was a 17 year old girl when she was sentanced to life in prison for a crime she did without a shodow of a doubt It took 15 years to prove theri innocence when it came out the who thing was a set up the police was under pressure to get the bomber and they got whoever they could and planted evidence accordingly to get their shut case and keep the public happy Gerry Conlon's two young cousins aged only 11 and 13 years old both did 5 years for their part in the making of the bombs, giuseppe conlon died in a prison cell 11 years into his sentance, they had the whole Conlon family down as some sort of bomb making ring their only real crime was being irish in london at the time of the bombing thats 4 innocent people that would be dead now And i wonder how many other cases there have been like that over the years | |||
" Babies and children are O.K, until they start mixing with kids who have learned that they can do whatever you want to others with little or no fear of punishment, then its "monkey see, monkey do". The bottom line is......they do it because they can! XXXX Yes, I agree and at the moment this attitide is just being reinforced. What about re-empowering discipline at school? Place to start?" When we were kids we got a good hiding when we did wrong but we also had great respect for our parents. There were a certain few kids that had what was maybe the first wave of liberal, Hippy type parents. Many times they'd do things, stealing etc, that we wouldn't dare. They used to justify it by saying "We'll only get told off!". Many children confuse kindness and compassion with weakness. XXXX | |||
" ........ Place to start? The home." Indeed. I wonder how much people know about making a home sometimes. When I came back as a refugee from terrorism myself and my family were "helped" by being placed in emergency housing. The house was perfect, even the setting was quite nice, but talk about neighbours from hell. Just as well we managed to drag ourselves out of there as the pressure from adults and kids could have done us countless damage. I count myself luck that I had the education and confidence to pull myself up but understand the syndrome of those children caught in this infernal stystem. For a start we could stop "dumping" people in "ghettoes" which is what this was effectively, despite the accommodation being perfectly acceptable. Are people able to look at the world from outside their own little box though. I am beginning to seriously doubt that they can. | |||
" Babies and children are O.K, until they start mixing with kids who have learned that they can do whatever you want to others with little or no fear of punishment, then its "monkey see, monkey do". The bottom line is......they do it because they can! XXXX Yes, I agree and at the moment this attitide is just being reinforced. What about re-empowering discipline at school? Place to start? When we were kids we got a good hiding when we did wrong but we also had great respect for our parents. There were a certain few kids that had what was maybe the first wave of liberal, Hippy type parents. Many times they'd do things, stealing etc, that we wouldn't dare. They used to justify it by saying "We'll only get told off!". Many children confuse kindness and compassion with weakness. XXXX" If children are brought up in an atmosphere of love, understanding and communication, the simple temporary withdrawal of those things will serve as an adequate punishment. Trouble is many "less able" families do not have any idea what this is themselves and children often "just exist". | |||
"But don't you think if there was a deterent like that out there knowing if you killed someone in cold blood you'd lose your life would that keep crime down?" Yeah, works in the United States doesn't it. Oh, that's right. It doesn't! | |||
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"If the crime can be proven Yes.. I have worked at crown court and seen people "get away with murder".. our justice system is crap " i agree but it works both way, also innocent people go to prison you can never be 100% sure the only person who really knows if someone is guilty or not is the person so yes criminals will go free and innocent people will do time and thats why this should never come back in because as you say the systems shit | |||
"But don't you think if there was a deterent like that out there knowing if you killed someone in cold blood you'd lose your life would that keep crime down? Yeah, works in the United States doesn't it. Oh, that's right. It doesn't!" Of course it works - there has never been a case of an executed prisoner who has murdered again. | |||
"so what do you say to the family who relative was killed because someone got it wrong? ooops? " Mistakes happen, fact of life, however, based on today's forensic / DNA evidence, it's hardly unlikely an innocent person would be found guilty. The DP never has, and never should be used as a deterrent, anyone receiving the DP receives it as punishment for the crime committed. In answer to the OP, I'm in favour of the DP, but only for those that commit barbaric crimes, i.e. child killers, serial rapists / murderers etc., etc., | |||
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"based on today's forensic / DNA evidence, it's hardly unlikely an innocent person would be found guilty. " Bary George for the Murder of Jill Dando. And many, many others who have subsequently been released on appeal. DNA evidence is nowhere near as accurrate as it is sometimes made out to be. And statistical evidence used to back it up in court can be wildly innaccurate - see the woman who was convicted of murdering her cot death children on the 'likelyhood' of 2 kids dying from it...but was later proved innocent. See the couple who were convicted of poisoning their son with salt, then later acquited. Read Bad Science by Ben Goldacre. It's an eye opener. | |||
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"so what do you say to the family who relative was killed because someone got it wrong? ooops? Mistakes happen, fact of life, however, based on today's forensic / DNA evidence, it's hardly unlikely an innocent person would be found guilty. The DP never has, and never should be used as a deterrent, anyone receiving the DP receives it as punishment for the crime committed. In answer to the OP, I'm in favour of the DP, but only for those that commit barbaric crimes, i.e. child killers, serial rapists / murderers etc., etc., " and what if that 'mistake' was someone you loved? to be honest i actually think being killed is a cop out for the criminal What i mean by that is if i was found guilty of a crime that carried the DP and i was given a choice to be killed or life in prison im sorry but id be holding my arm out so fast for that injection, who would want to spend their who life in prison? to be thats a far bigger punishment that being oput to sleep but saying that life should mean life | |||
"so what do you say to the family who relative was killed because someone got it wrong? ooops? Mistakes happen, fact of life, however, based on today's forensic / DNA evidence, it's hardly unlikely an innocent person would be found guilty. The DP never has, and never should be used as a deterrent, anyone receiving the DP receives it as punishment for the crime committed. In answer to the OP, I'm in favour of the DP, but only for those that commit barbaric crimes, i.e. child killers, serial rapists / murderers etc., etc., " So picking up on Fabio`s question .....what would YOU say to the bereaved of the innocent persons family ....sat on their chairs....facing them eye to eye .... | |||
His debts are written off if in longer than 6mths
And now they also sue because fred cant get fooking sky on his telly.
We will be forever laughed at because of the system now in place | |||
But what we should do is start teaching the kids very young about what is right and wrong. How many of you throw litter in the streets? How many of you do it (did it!) when you are with your young kids? By throwing litter I also mean the dropping of cigarette butts in public places!
If you commit any crime or break any rules and your kids see that, what signal does it send? I'll tell you... It says that although laws and rules are there, I can choose what ones to obey! Simple as that. It would have made some kids believe that if it was OK to break that law, why not this one?
I can remember when we were at school, my dear old Mum was called to the school because I was naughty. (You, naughty? I hear you ask... I SAID.. Oh never mind!) When she got there, she listened to the teacher and on the way home I was in no doubt that I was in trouble. These days, parents go to the school when their little darling are naughty and have a go at the teacher!
We have to start young, teach them right from wrong, make sure they have good role models to follow and above all, respect their elders. Unfashionable I know with some parents, but to be honest, I am glad I am on the downward slope to the exit.
Just to clarify, I (we) have two kids. One of each and both of them own their own houses, have great jobs and are respectful of people they meet. Maybe they were destined to be like that anyway, but we do think we played a small part in it!  | |||
"So ok...No death penalty We need to make prisons somewhere NO ONE wants to go. Not make them like bloody holiday camps with all the privelages many find it hard to buy when working. They spend more on fooking prisoner meals than oaps in homes. Thats not right surely ? Forget the bloody do gooders screaming its unfair. They have the right to be fed...regardless of what.. and clothed , even if its only charity shop stuff. Make them bloody work and DONT pay them. I know one guy round where i live who looks forward to going in
His debts are written off if in longer than 6mths
And now they also sue because fred cant get fooking sky on his telly.
We will be forever laughed at because of the system now in place "Prisons only work with the consent of the inmates and the stricter the regime you try to enfore the more prison staff you need to do it. You only have to look at the actions at HMP Ford a couple of weeks ago when some POs decided to try to breathalyse some inmates - simply because the staff were massively outnumbered. | |||
"So ok...No death penalty We need to make prisons somewhere NO ONE wants to go. Not make them like bloody holiday camps with all the privelages many find it hard to buy when working. They spend more on fooking prisoner meals than oaps in homes. Thats not right surely ? Forget the bloody do gooders screaming its unfair. They have the right to be fed...regardless of what.. and clothed , even if its only charity shop stuff. Make them bloody work and DONT pay them. I know one guy round where i live who looks forward to going in
His debts are written off if in longer than 6mths
And now they also sue because fred cant get fooking sky on his telly.
We will be forever laughed at because of the system now in place "My mum's in hospital at the moment, she is 88. The Tv next to her bed has to be paid for ... and you need to be a techno wiz to have any chance of using it. No way could she use it on her own. | |||
"Ooops, I didn't actually mean we should kill the naughty kids in schools. I meant corporal, naturally. Freudian slip "A Freudian slip? You have an unconscious desire to judicially murder children? I think Freud would recommend you talk about these feelings... | |||
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"So ok...No death penalty We need to make prisons somewhere NO ONE wants to go. Not make them like bloody holiday camps with all the privelages many find it hard to buy when working. They spend more on fooking prisoner meals than oaps in homes. Thats not right surely ? Forget the bloody do gooders screaming its unfair. They have the right to be fed...regardless of what.. and clothed , even if its only charity shop stuff. Make them bloody work and DONT pay them. I know one guy round where i live who looks forward to going in
His debts are written off if in longer than 6mths
And now they also sue because fred cant get fooking sky on his telly.
We will be forever laughed at because of the system now in place "I work for a housing association and our policy is to write off former tenant arrears if they go to prison, however if they come out, it can be written back on, we also contact local authorities and tell them, that way their only option for housing is private rented, not much i know but it helps. Whats worse though is the guy that between him and his wife, have run up several hundred thousand pounds of debt, they have split, he has registered bankrupt and they are writing the lot off. We are now trying to find out whether we can chase her for the former tenant arrears but its unlikely we will be able to | |||
"So ok...No death penalty We need to make prisons somewhere NO ONE wants to go. Not make them like bloody holiday camps with all the privelages many find it hard to buy when working. They spend more on fooking prisoner meals than oaps in homes. Thats not right surely ? Forget the bloody do gooders screaming its unfair. They have the right to be fed...regardless of what.. and clothed , even if its only charity shop stuff. Make them bloody work and DONT pay them. I know one guy round where i live who looks forward to going in
His debts are written off if in longer than 6mths
And now they also sue because fred cant get fooking sky on his telly.
We will be forever laughed at because of the system now in place
I work for a housing association and our policy is to write off former tenant arrears if they go to prison, however if they come out, it can be written back on, we also contact local authorities and tell them, that way their only option for housing is private rented, not much i know but it helps. Whats worse though is the guy that between him and his wife, have run up several hundred thousand pounds of debt, they have split, he has registered bankrupt and they are writing the lot off. We are now trying to find out whether we can chase her for the former tenant arrears but its unlikely we will be able to "In what way does restricting the housing options of former prisoners improve the chances of them being re-integrated into society and preventing re-offending? | |||
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"as a prison officer (21yrs)i have seen a lot,men who have raped,and murdered women and children and do they have any remorse NO does prison reform them NO.can they get everything they want YES.then they get released after doing maybe 10 yrs.the familys of the victims have a real life sentence,the only way the would feel some justice is to bring back the death penalty." Thank you very much M.B. So there you have it, a view based on fact from someone with first hand knowledge and years of experience, not just theory and supposition. Nothing more to add really, I rest my case! R
XXXX | |||
"Yes...in cases where their is absolutely no doubt when it comes to planned murders, terrorism or acts of mass murder...peter sutcliffe the Wests etc... Caught in possession of a blade or a gun (with intent) ten years minimum...use it and get 25 Drink driving 5 year ban first offence 10 year second and in every case take their cars ans sell them, the money going into a pot for victims of such crimes Drugs...possession with intent to supply...15 years first offence for the big boys. Kiddy fiddlers, first offence 10 years, no segregation.. The justice system here is back to front...get caught printing your own stamps and you will in most cases get a stretch...burgle someone and if you go away youl be out in no time to do it again. " I'm sure there's plenty of people in the UK who'd be happy to see more people incarcerated for longer but finding people who'd be prepared to pay for the additional places and extra prisons that'd need - even before you begin to look for people who'd be happy to have a prison built in their neighbourhood is a different matter. | |||
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"So ok...No death penalty We need to make prisons somewhere NO ONE wants to go. Not make them like bloody holiday camps with all the privelages many find it hard to buy when working. They spend more on fooking prisoner meals than oaps in homes. Thats not right surely ? Forget the bloody do gooders screaming its unfair. They have the right to be fed...regardless of what.. and clothed , even if its only charity shop stuff. Make them bloody work and DONT pay them. I know one guy round where i live who looks forward to going in
His debts are written off if in longer than 6mths
And now they also sue because fred cant get fooking sky on his telly.
We will be forever laughed at because of the system now in place
I work for a housing association and our policy is to write off former tenant arrears if they go to prison, however if they come out, it can be written back on, we also contact local authorities and tell them, that way their only option for housing is private rented, not much i know but it helps. Whats worse though is the guy that between him and his wife, have run up several hundred thousand pounds of debt, they have split, he has registered bankrupt and they are writing the lot off. We are now trying to find out whether we can chase her for the former tenant arrears but its unlikely we will be able to
In what way does restricting the housing options of former prisoners improve the chances of them being re-integrated into society and preventing re-offending?"They can still get private rented but they are not allowed to register on the local authority housing list until they have made arrangements to clear the debt and been paying it for sometime. Grossly unfair anyway that as they would be deemed homeless they would be allowed to jump to the top of the queue and given maximum points. Afterall they have had a cushy time in prison, why should anyone jump through hoops to help them when there are for more deserving cases. | |||
"So ok...No death penalty We need to make prisons somewhere NO ONE wants to go. Not make them like bloody holiday camps with all the privelages many find it hard to buy when working. They spend more on fooking prisoner meals than oaps in homes. Thats not right surely ? Forget the bloody do gooders screaming its unfair. They have the right to be fed...regardless of what.. and clothed , even if its only charity shop stuff. Make them bloody work and DONT pay them. I know one guy round where i live who looks forward to going in
His debts are written off if in longer than 6mths
And now they also sue because fred cant get fooking sky on his telly.
We will be forever laughed at because of the system now in place
I work for a housing association and our policy is to write off former tenant arrears if they go to prison, however if they come out, it can be written back on, we also contact local authorities and tell them, that way their only option for housing is private rented, not much i know but it helps. Whats worse though is the guy that between him and his wife, have run up several hundred thousand pounds of debt, they have split, he has registered bankrupt and they are writing the lot off. We are now trying to find out whether we can chase her for the former tenant arrears but its unlikely we will be able to
In what way does restricting the housing options of former prisoners improve the chances of them being re-integrated into society and preventing re-offending?
They can still get private rented but they are not allowed to register on the local authority housing list until they have made arrangements to clear the debt and been paying it for sometime. Grossly unfair anyway that as they would be deemed homeless they would be allowed to jump to the top of the queue and given maximum points. Afterall they have had a cushy time in prison, why should anyone jump through hoops to help them when there are for more deserving cases."Are you sure you have the body of knowledge you claim here? Of course each RSL has its own points scheme, unless it's granted nomination rights to another body, but single homeless are no longer a priority for most housing bodies. You can find some more information about the issues here -http://www.crisis.org.uk/pages/single-homelessness.html To quote the prison service "Housing has been identified as a key factor in the successful reintegration of prisoners and the reduction of re-offending (Social Exclusion Unit, 2002). It is therefore unsurprising to find that homeless individuals are over-represented in the prison population. Carlen (1983) suggests that this may be due to homeless offenders having a higher reconviction rate than domiciled offenders and because their housing status becomes a factor in the court's decision to imprison them." And here's a great quote from an article on women's experience of leaving prison "One woman being released on a Friday was expected to report to the housing department and declare herself homeless. She had been in the same circumstance when released from prison before; no accommodation had been forthcoming then and she had breached her license conditions. She was pessimistic about her chances this time." The system doesn't work... | |||
