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Drinking alcohol on a plane flight

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago

So Ryan Air have banned passengers from taking alcohol they purchase in duty free onto the plane when flying to Ibiza. Apparently to improve passenger safety - I couldn't grasp though whether they still serve it on the flight?

Apparently - One drink in the air is equal to three on land. According to the UK's flight regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), low air pressure when flying effectively thins the blood. That means the effects of alcohol can be stronger.

But some experts aren't convinced. They think you may feel d*unk because flying conditions mean less oxygen gets into your brain.

I have flown a fair bit, I remember one particular flight which had been delayed for a number of hours. One passenger was really disruptive during the flight as he had obviously been drinking the whole time that we were delayed. It wasn't a great flight because he was a complete arse for most of it!

Do you have a tipple when on the plane or just before hand to calm nerves or just to chill? Or do you think that alcohol and flying is a bad combo? or just not your thing. I don't tend to, part of that though, is because I don't want to go for 100's of wee's once on the plane.

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By *offee and Cream 2Couple (MM)  over a year ago

Loughborough

It is an offence under the Air Navigation Order to be carried aboard any aircraft whilst intoxicated through drink.

Simple!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

A tend to have a wee sip in flight, make me more relaxed and I've never flown to club or package destinations

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"It is an offence under the Air Navigation Order to be carried aboard any aircraft whilst intoxicated through drink.

Simple! "

I think some people are good at hiding it until on the plane! Although, the incident I am referring to was a few years ago. It was just one of those nightmare flights ! I clapped when we landed!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

My holiday starts as soon as I leave my house, so at the airport we tend to have our bacon and a pint ...on the plane I always order a bottle of champagne as its my treat to myself...on the flight to Mexico we upgraded so all drinks were free...still treat myself to the Champers (NOT FREE)and a few off the freebies ...well tis a good 10 hrs flight.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Lots of recent incidents regarding idiots being d*unk and causing issues on a plane. Never had a drink on a plane and wouldn't bother me if it wasn't available anyway.

Bet it's got nothing to do with Ryan Air wanting you to buy their drink though.

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By *aneandpaulCouple  over a year ago

cleveleys

Same as us

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"Lots of recent incidents regarding idiots being d*unk and causing issues on a plane. Never had a drink on a plane and wouldn't bother me if it wasn't available anyway.

Bet it's got nothing to do with Ryan Air wanting you to buy their drink though. "

That's what I thought. If they are still serving it, in flight, it kind of doesn't add up and you are not supposed to drink your own alcohol anyway. Whoever the carrier is.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman  over a year ago

Merseyside

I'd rather no one drank at all on the plane.

I'd even agree to breath tests before boarding. A sniff of a drink and you don't board.

I'm not anti drink but I wouldn't want to be stuck on a plane with someone who is.

A second reason that I don't buy drinks on a plane is I can't stand being fleeced.

I can wait till I hit the holiday spot.

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By *oobsandballsMan  over a year ago

st andrews

I've never had a drink while travelling

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By *bi HaiveMan  over a year ago
Forum Mod

Cheeseville, Somerset

I've flown a lot even though I hate flying.

On a short hop I may have one or two before boarding and then one just after take off (always spirits not beers - you don't want to spend any longer in a plane loo than possible!).

On longer flights of 10 hrs or more I may well have a few - usually enough to make me drowsy so I can sleep through as much of the flight as possible.

I've never overindulged or caused offence and can only think of one time I saw anyone that did in dozens of trips. I guess it depends on the destination. A budget flight heading to Ibiza or magaluf will carry a higher percentage of young adults heading out for sun, sex and sti's than a traditional carrier heading to a less touristy city/country.

And so far as I knew no airline let you drink your own. Just what you buy in flight. So like barman it's the job of the cabin crew to refuse to serve - although they can hardly kick out an annoying d*unk mid-flight. Many airlines profiteer from their prices - not just Ryan Air.

A

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I reckon anyone who objects to the idea of going without alcohol for the duration of a flight, a bus or coach or train journey, needs to re-consider their priorities....

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago
Forum Mod

I have a drink because it's the start of my holiday!

Wouldn't bother me if it was banned completely though,I don't see why cabin crew(and the rest of the passengers) should have to put up with nonsense behaviour

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman  over a year ago

Merseyside

Got to admit i've never been on a flight where there were d*unks causing problems.

Scary thought tho

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman  over a year ago

little house on the praire


"I reckon anyone who objects to the idea of going without alcohol for the duration of a flight, a bus or coach or train journey, needs to re-consider their priorities....

"

no way do I want to be stuck with a pissed up twat, especially if you have a young family with you. Should be banned

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

It's just a money making scam, you can't take any drinks through airport security but you can buy the airports drinks at highly inflated prices, you cant drink anything you buy from the airport, but can buy drinks on the plane for a doubly inflated price.

It's just a way of making money through 'captive audience' tactics

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"

I'd even agree to breath tests before boarding. A sniff of a drink and you don't board.

"

What a shit job that would be. Chief Breath Smeller

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By *oxiAnneWoman  over a year ago

Not on a Hot Gin Roof :/


"Got to admit i've never been on a flight where there were d*unks causing problems.

Scary thought tho"

I have and it was a bloody frightening experience.

d*unk woman trying to open the emergency exit, screaming at the passengers & crew who were preventing her from exiting @ 33,000 feet..!!

She was restrained in a seat at the front of the cabin, one way to get into business class I suppose....

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I reckon anyone who objects to the idea of going without alcohol for the duration of a flight, a bus or coach or train journey, needs to re-consider their priorities....

no way do I want to be stuck with a pissed up twat, especially if you have a young family with you. Should be banned"

Drink should not be banned

People who cannot hold drink or conduct themselves in a controlled professional courteous manor should be banned

Normally you get a better class of person flying business, not always but often and if a long haul flight, it is worth the extra money, extra room and a nice flow of drinks

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By *obbytupperMan  over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

A word of warning! Even Cruise Ships have a brig, where disruptive passengers or crewmembers can be detained.

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By *opping_candyWoman  over a year ago

West Yorkshire

I've never had a drink on a plane, though I've been on very few flights since being old enough to drink. The extortionate prices would be enough to put me off anyway!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Some people really don't know how to conduct themselves on planes. There's nothing wrong with having a little tipple but those that bring duty free booze onto the plane with the sole purpose of getting wasted and causing aggro is not acceptable. I was on a transatlantic flight once where one group of passengers were doing just that. Shouting, singing, swearing - being totally anti-social. The pilot threatened diverting to Newfoundland until the cabin crew managed to separate the 3 protagonists, confiscate their booze and calm them down enough. It was hugely entertaining to see 6 big New York Cops pull them off the plane at the gate. I hope they enjoyed their stay in NY - twats!

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By *irtyGirlWoman  over a year ago

Edinburgh

Nope... never drink alcohol on the plane but I never use the loo either. I get on, sit down and get up again when it lands. Always a window seat. Plug in my earphones, read my book or close my eyes and daydream. I never sleep on public transport either. I am a slightly weird creature of habit.

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By *kin BohnerMan  over a year ago

derby

So you cant have a drink for the duration of the flight... it wont kill anyone to abstain for a couple of hours.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Having been on 14 flights in the past six weeks to all the party capitals . I can say that all carriers still serve drinks in their flights. Most don't stop you from drinking duty free you have bought . However Ryan air have banned it and will remove it from you if they see you drinking it.

I personally normally have a few drinks at the airport before a flight and a couple on board .

The drinks are not expensive and normally they have an offer on if you buy more than one.

Bruce

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman  over a year ago

little house on the praire


"I reckon anyone who objects to the idea of going without alcohol for the duration of a flight, a bus or coach or train journey, needs to re-consider their priorities....

no way do I want to be stuck with a pissed up twat, especially if you have a young family with you. Should be banned

Drink should not be banned

People who cannot hold drink or conduct themselves in a controlled professional courteous manor should be banned

Normally you get a better class of person flying business, not always but often and if a long haul flight, it is worth the extra money, extra room and a nice flow of drinks "

still think it should be banned, people have their whole holiday to drink, if they can't last a few hours without a drink then poor them

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By *irtyGirlWoman  over a year ago

Edinburgh

I figured it was a given that you couldn't open any duty free that you bought, a bit like you wouldn't go into a restaurant and bring out your packed lunch...

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By *ugby 123Couple  over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

About time.

However, if they still serve drinks themselves, then theres no point other than they want to make the money.

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By *nnyMan  over a year ago

Glasgow

Evacuating a downed aeroplane is risky enough sober - what it must be like in the company of a bunch of pissed up passengers I dread to think.

At least restricting alcohol to that provided by the crew allows them a degree of control about how much is is handed out and to whom.

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By *ugby 123Couple  over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo


"Evacuating a downed aeroplane is risky enough sober - what it must be like in the company of a bunch of pissed up passengers I dread to think.

At least restricting alcohol to that provided by the crew allows them a degree of control about how much is is handed out and to whom."

But how will the person handing out the drinks know how much that person can take. they could end up a nutter after 2.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Your not allowed to drink your duty free drink on a Thomson flight. Not sure if that applies on any others (other than Ryanair)

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By *nnyMan  over a year ago

Glasgow


"Evacuating a downed aeroplane is risky enough sober - what it must be like in the company of a bunch of pissed up passengers I dread to think.

At least restricting alcohol to that provided by the crew allows them a degree of control about how much is is handed out and to whom.

But how will the person handing out the drinks know how much that person can take. they could end up a nutter after 2.

"

Don't hand out 2 then. Stick to 1.

I appreciate some people have no sense of personal responsibility so sometimes others have to take it for them.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I figured it was a given that you couldn't open any duty free that you bought, a bit like you wouldn't go into a restaurant and bring out your packed lunch... "

Or your sandwiches

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"

Normally you get a better class of person flying business, not always but often and if a long haul flight, it is worth the extra money, extra room and a nice flow of drinks "

Hey I'm sure you never meant to offend everyone who can't afford to fly business ,,,,,,FFS...

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Beer at gatwick

2 beers 2 bacardis on the plane. Drink within 15 minutes.

Crash out for rest of the flight.

Done it for 30 years. Works every time.

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By *oxiAnneWoman  over a year ago

Not on a Hot Gin Roof :/


"Your not allowed to drink your duty free drink on a Thomson flight. Not sure if that applies on any others (other than Ryanair)"

As far as I know you're not allowed to consume duty free on airlines full stop, but people do.

Depends on where I'm flying too and who I'm with if I have a drink or not ~ realistically on a shorthaul busy flight I'd probably see the crew a couple of times.

No need to treat the plane like a flying pub!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I reckon anyone who objects to the idea of going without alcohol for the duration of a flight, a bus or coach or train journey, needs to re-consider their priorities....

no way do I want to be stuck with a pissed up twat, especially if you have a young family with you. Should be banned

Drink should not be banned

People who cannot hold drink or conduct themselves in a controlled professional courteous manor should be banned

Normally you get a better class of person flying business, not always but often and if a long haul flight, it is worth the extra money, extra room and a nice flow of drinks "

In my experience business class customers are much ruder in general on flights . Where as the regular flights people may be louder but generally they are enjoying themselves with thier friends and not actually causing any problems .

Most companies like jet2 and easy jet have a rep checking in large groups (stag/hen dos) and will remove the whole group if one person is deemed not fit enough to fly.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Some serious control freakery on this thread.

Health and safety - the way to tell people what they should do. Plus ca change

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I fly long haul frequently and it is rare that d*unks cause problems but it does happen.

Airports and aeroplanes are unique places. You average Joe/Josephine would never consider drinking alcohol at 7 am....but in an airport the bars are full at this time.

Most of my flights are for work and not to holiday destinations which are much worse for drinkers.

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By *ee VianteWoman  over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

I hardly drink on the ground so why I'd want to do something that will dehydrate me and make me more prone to feeling ill if we hit turbulence on a 'plane is beyond me.

I'm not a nervous passenger so I don't need alcohol to relax me. I don't like being cramped in close proximity to strangers but it doesn't help with that, and it doesn't help me sleep.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Your not allowed to drink your duty free drink on a Thomson flight. Not sure if that applies on any others (other than Ryanair)

As far as I know you're not allowed to consume duty free on airlines full stop, but people do.

Depends on where I'm flying too and who I'm with if I have a drink or not ~ realistically on a shorthaul busy flight I'd probably see the crew a couple of times.

No need to treat the plane like a flying pub!"

I share a cider if I'm away with someone in the airport. At £5.40 a pop you can't blame me.

I rarely drink on the plane, I'm not a fan of flying so usually go to sleep. If I do have a drink it's normally 1 baileys.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Some serious control freakery on this thread.

Health and safety - the way to tell people what they should do. Plus ca change

"

People are just engaging in healthy thought exchange,,,,, its the whole point of Forum,,,,,,

No-one's opinions or views hold primacy.....

Apart from mine....

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By *ugby 123Couple  over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo


"Evacuating a downed aeroplane is risky enough sober - what it must be like in the company of a bunch of pissed up passengers I dread to think.

At least restricting alcohol to that provided by the crew allows them a degree of control about how much is is handed out and to whom.

But how will the person handing out the drinks know how much that person can take. they could end up a nutter after 2.

Don't hand out 2 then. Stick to 1.

."

Ok will change my comment.

But how will the person handing out the drinks know how much that person can take. they could end up a nutter after 1.

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By *ee VianteWoman  over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Evacuating a downed aeroplane is risky enough sober - what it must be like in the company of a bunch of pissed up passengers I dread to think.

At least restricting alcohol to that provided by the crew allows them a degree of control about how much is is handed out and to whom.

But how will the person handing out the drinks know how much that person can take. they could end up a nutter after 2.

Don't hand out 2 then. Stick to 1.

.

Ok will change my comment.

But how will the person handing out the drinks know how much that person can take. they could end up a nutter after 1.

"

Some of us are nutters before we've had any...

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By *mm_n_ZedCouple  over a year ago

Fareham

I thought you weren't allowed to carry more than 100ml in any one container in hand luggage so how are people able to open duty free and get wasted?

Personally I never drink alcohol before or during a flight, neither does Zed.

E x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Some serious control freakery on this thread.

Health and safety - the way to tell people what they should do. Plus ca change

People are just engaging in healthy thought exchange,,,,, its the whole point of Forum,,,,,,

No-one's opinions or views hold primacy.....

Apart from mine.... "

Way-aye B_nny lass.

But the one about how much passengers on a downed aircraft had drank was the best.

Think a few pissed up Charlies is the least of your problems on a plane that's going down.

You are about to be smashed to a million bloody bits, can we form an orderly queue for the toilets please.

Stop singing loudly at the back

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Having been on 14 flights in the past six weeks to all the party capitals . I can say that all carriers still serve drinks in their flights. Most don't stop you from drinking duty free you have bought . However Ryan air have banned it and will remove it from you if they see you drinking it.

I personally normally have a few drinks at the airport before a flight and a couple on board .

The drinks are not expensive and normally they have an offer on if you buy more than one.

Bruce "

Its been proven 1 flight is the equivalent to 1 x-ray

14 flights in 6 weeks is a lot of radiation going into your body

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By *oxiAnneWoman  over a year ago

Not on a Hot Gin Roof :/


"I thought you weren't allowed to carry more than 100ml in any one container in hand luggage so how are people able to open duty free and get wasted?

Personally I never drink alcohol before or during a flight, neither does Zed.

E x

"

It's 100ml through security.

Duty Free is airside, sealed and therefore exempt.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

If you can't abstain from drinking whilst on a plane then you have issues.

Nothing ruins a flight more than a d*unk.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS  over a year ago

Central

Against my better judgement I do drink very lightly. A champagne at take off, two if delayed and maybe another with dinner. It's better not to drink though. I'm not usually driving at the other end, so no safety issues.

Alcohol is not ideal for restful sleep or to stay hydrated.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Rarely drink on a plane, have done as part of a hen do going to Benidorm, though it was a couple of pensioners that were d*unk and making a scene. I'd happily not drink though on a flight. Usually prefer a coffee.

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By *iverscuMan  over a year ago

Berkshire

I am petrified of flying and find a couple of drinks before take off really helps me. Im a calm when im d*unk anyway so i wouldnt be causing anyone a problem but i can see the issue if you get a loud mouth causing trouble.

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By *iamondjoeMan  over a year ago

Glastonbury

[Removed by poster at 27/07/15 12:51:56]

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By *iamondjoeMan  over a year ago

Glastonbury

Well there's fuck all else to do.

Can always spice things up with a diazepam.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I am old enough to remember when smoking was allowed on planes so I can see the time when drinking is banned too. It is always the few prats who cannot handle their drink who ruin it for everyone. I have been on a few flights where staff were alerted to d*unk passengers who were then stopped from barding. Usually after a flight delay and they had been in the airport bar for a few hours. The yobbish holiday makers are often to be found covertly sharing a bottle of sprits they had bought in the airport. Usually down the scuffers end of the plane but the raucousness does upset a lot of people.

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By *iverscuMan  over a year ago

Berkshire

I remember when smoking on planes was allowed. How bonkers is that when you think about it!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

The reason they don't allow you to open your duty free is because they cannot tell how much alcohol you have consumed. I was told this as I take 100ml of vodka with me on the plane( that's the maximum allowed liquid) you can take through passport control. And then buy a couple of s on the plane. I only do this as I refuse to pay the extortionate prices they charge

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By *ugby 123Couple  over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo


"

Some of us are nutters before we've had any...

"

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan  over a year ago

here

Why the need to open your duty free when it's free on-board anyway

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By *irty130Couple  over a year ago

Bristol Area

The alcohol you buy at DutyFree is always sold to you in a SEALED bag, and I'm pretty sure that the bag states that it is not allowed to be opened on your flight - it's not just a single airline - it's aviation and TAX rules.

That being said, I was once on a 5 hour flight where we were buying a few vodka s. The airline then told us that they couldn't sell *anyone* any more because they would RUN OUT and wouldn't have any for the return flight later that day! So yeah, we cracked open the duty free at that point. Bought loads of cans from the airline. They actually seemed ok with this. (this was about 10 years ago)

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By *irty130Couple  over a year ago

Bristol Area


"Why the need to open your duty free when it's free on-board anyway "
Haha it definitely wouldn't be free on Ryanair!

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan  over a year ago

here

I'm sure I read somewhere that on certain routes they would not serve alcohol - so I guess the next logical thing to do would be to stop duty free also being taken on-board on those flights. Makes sense on certain routes

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

If it is a safey issue then I would expect Ryanair to serve no alcohol on the route. I suspect however they just want to increase their profits.

I nearly always have a drink on a plane, especially long haul where it helps me doze off.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"Why the need to open your duty free when it's free on-board anyway "

That's the likes of Quantas long haul - Ryan Air is definitely no frills.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"I remember when smoking on planes was allowed. How bonkers is that when you think about it!"

Can't imagine it now - sitting in a smog of smoke whilst in a confined space and thinking it's fine. Amazing how times have changed in a relatively short time.

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By *empting Devil.Woman  over a year ago

Sheffield


"I remember when smoking on planes was allowed. How bonkers is that when you think about it!

Can't imagine it now - sitting in a smog of smoke whilst in a confined space and thinking it's fine. Amazing how times have changed in a relatively short time. "

Thing is, despite the smell of smoke the air quality was better when smoking was allowed as they used to pull air in from outside the plane. Now they just continuously recirculate the internal air.

But it did make me laugh when it was rows 20 and back that were smoking seats - of course the smoke didn't travel!

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By *iverscuMan  over a year ago

Berkshire

I wouldnt mind the second hand smoke as much as the 500mph fireball when someone drops a match;)

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I am petrified of flying and find a couple of drinks before take off really helps me."

There's a better alternative. Take two teaspoons of cement and harden up.

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By *ildt123Man  over a year ago

Huddersfield

So many typical posts on here about banning all alcohol. If people get so d*unk they can't behave deal with them, blanket bans on ordinary decent people is a joke. If I have two cans of beer on a plane I'm not d*unk or a pain to anyone why should I be penalised because others are dicks? If you don't want a drink fine but why can't I?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Hello Soxy,

"I reckon anyone who objects to the idea of going without alcohol for the duration of a flight, a bus or coach or train journey, needs to re-consider their priorities..."

What a peculiar point of view, and rather patronising?

Alec

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By *urreyfun2008Man  over a year ago

East Grinstead

Flown in all cabins and never seen a bad d*unk, usually more noise and hassle from school groups that travel en-masse.

If in business champers while waiting to take off and as service starts is normal, followed by whatever matches meal.

Do always a water and juice too and on long haul even in economy they hand out water.

One route when I was a regular did find was having to say no to offers of mini bottles of wine, even when in economy.

The loud d*unks on planes are probably those that are loud and annoying when out in town too.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"So many typical posts on here about banning all alcohol. If people get so d*unk they can't behave deal with them, blanket bans on ordinary decent people is a joke. If I have two cans of beer on a plane I'm not d*unk or a pain to anyone why should I be penalised because others are dicks? If you don't want a drink fine but why can't I? "

Same reason they banned guns when one loony shot a school full of children. It's basically safer for everyone

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By *opsy RogersWoman  over a year ago

London


"It's just a money making scam, you can't take any drinks through airport security but you can buy the airports drinks at highly inflated prices, you cant drink anything you buy from the airport, but can buy drinks on the plane for a doubly inflated price.

It's just a way of making money through 'captive audience' tactics "

As long as folk are willing to pay silly prices, they will charge silly prices.

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By *opsy RogersWoman  over a year ago

London


"Hello Soxy,

"I reckon anyone who objects to the idea of going without alcohol for the duration of a flight, a bus or coach or train journey, needs to re-consider their priorities..."

What a peculiar point of view, and rather patronising?

Alec

"

What is peculiar and patronising about it?

Anyone who finds it difficult not to drink alcohol should consider their reliability on it.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I am terrified of flying, if I couldn't board a plane with a couple or 3 beers in me to calm the nerves and help me have a snooze if possible then I wouldn't be getting on a plane,

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By *abioMan  over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

[Removed by poster at 27/07/15 21:34:08]

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By *abioMan  over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

Apparently - One drink in the air is equal to three on land. According to the UK's flight regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), low air pressure when flying effectively thins the blood. That means the effects of alcohol can be stronger.

"

well that would explain the air france flight i took with a few arsenal friends of mine to paris to a cup final.... we were sober leaving I swear... an hour in the air... landed at charles de galle staggering around d*unk as skunks!!!!

well... part of that might be when we found out the drinks were free... I swear i only had 4 tops!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

It should be banned full stop.

Flying I mean obviously

Not drinking ffs

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I think drink should be banned for flights. It's never happened to me but it's a terrifying thought to be on a flight with an aggressive d*unk.

Safety comes first and I'm sure that people can wait until they get to the resort.

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By *ltravioletWoman  over a year ago

In amongst the Unicorns & fairy dust

My belief is that it's always the minority that spoils it for the majority - it's quite a while since I've flown but there should be people in the air company that should refuse anyone to fly if they are obviously intoxicated before they board the plane ,,, seems to me that it's an easy get out clause for not giving employees the right training or responsibilities and salary ,,, to which we are all responsible for our own health and safety after all ,,, it shouldn't be down to anyone else

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