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Armistace Protests
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"as you say,others died so they can protest. celtic fans held up banner that some found distasteful. Louis on x factor wore a poppy the last two shows,mary did the first week but not the second. was wearing it costing her irish votes? i wore a poppy and observed the silence out of respect as i do every year but its not compulsory. and i detest the EDL but the member who tried to jump the barrier and attack the protesters..good try fella" I don't watch x-factor so wouldn't have noticed that, but shame on them if that was the case. 2 minutes once a year is very little...I actually had to silence some men in our office who continued talking through it. | |||
"As an ex-forces person I have no time or respect for these people" Quite agree, if they do not like it, show them the door!  | |||
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"Totally agree. I am having to bite my tongue on this. I can see me getting banned otherwise. "it is an emotive issue and trust me, whatever you're thinking I am totally in agreement | |||
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"Showed this post to my partner..he travels loads in Europe and lived long abroad, but is a Yorkshire man through and through. He says do it like the French.. if someone burns a French flag and preaches hate against France..they are packed up and sent back to the countries they came from...end of story.. Maybe they are right? H. " Should be like that here | |||
"Showed this post to my partner..he travels loads in Europe and lived long abroad, but is a Yorkshire man through and through. He says do it like the French.. if someone burns a French flag and preaches hate against France..they are packed up and sent back to the countries they came from...end of story.. Maybe they are right? H. Should be like that here" there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead. | |||
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"Freedom of Speech is the foundation stone of democracy. Notwithstanding the politics, rights and wrongs of recent wars/conflicts it is what our Armed Forces fight and die for. If not our own then someone else's. However, with that freedom of speech, expression, thought and belief comes a massive responsibility. A responsibility not to abuse the privilige, not to use that hard fought for freedom to incite hatred and provoke violence and certainly not to use it to disrespect those who have given their lives that we may enjoy this freedom. It speaks volumes for the tolerance and nobility of the people of these islands that the disrespectful, disgraceful and hate filled protests today were not met with wholesale violence and rioting. It also speaks volumes for our beleaguered Police Force who, unarmed, maintained order and further protected the sanctity of free speech. There are many places in todays world where the Police and the Military would have swiftly, brutally, mercilessly and murderously quashed such a demonstration and the world wouldn't have skipped a beat. " I took out the last line before anyone asks as the point made is a brilliant one without it and i don't want the conversation to be soley about rememberance and about the general conversation..... | |||
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"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country. Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens. Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises. Do as the French do and kick these scum out! XXXX" Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born? Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London? | |||
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"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country. Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens. Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises. Do as the French do and kick these scum out! XXXX Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born? Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London?" Simple,any radical Muslim country. The sort of life style they seem to yearn for,it would obviously be doing them a kindness! | |||
".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it.. ........... " Have they actually broken any law? We may wholeheartedly disapprove of what they did (I certainly do!) but I wouldn't want to live in a society where freedom to protest - even in support of a supposed cause I abhor - was taken away just because most people disagree with what they're doing. I want people to be free to march in favour of and against abortion. I want people to be able to campaign for and against the reintroduction of capital punishment. I want people to be allowed to take to the streets in support of and in opposition to Scottish Independence. Even though I have strongly held _iews on all these subjects (and more). | |||
" It speaks volumes for the tolerance and nobility of the people of these islands that the disrespectful, disgraceful and hate filled protests today were not met with wholesale violence and rioting. " It also speaks volumes that people are not allowed to do anything about it for fear of being branded a racist fascist Nazi..it also speaks volumes that people have more or less given up and excepted the fact that this is how it is and this is how its going to stay.. As for freedom of speech...it would be interesting to see how much freedom of speech was allowed if the situation was reversed...my guess would be zero...amazing how football supporters face a life ban from clubs and criminal prosecution for running on a pitch...or calling opposing supporters wankers..thats after the police have cracked a few over the head..affray and incitement are very often used against football supporters..but why not against those people today????????... I detest any form of racism especially racist bullies..ok people can have _iews..and opinions but these people really aint doing racial harmony any favours. I dont like the EDL ..I dont trust them..and I am very sceptical of the way they appear to use black guys and people from other races as token members..all fighting one cause...but they will start to gain a lot of strength and popularity if there are more repeats of days like this This world can be such a sad place sometimes..  | |||
"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country. Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens. Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises. Do as the French do and kick these scum out! XXXX Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born? Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London? Simple,any radical Muslim country. The sort of life style they seem to yearn for,it would obviously be doing them a kindness!" Just any radical Muslim country at random? Maybe there'd be an alphabetical list and the first guy would go to a country beginning with A. The next person would go to a country beginning with B and so on. Maybe we could have a select list of particularly oppressive Muslim regimes where people we especially didn't like could be sent. There could be special welcoming committees to greet them. The women could be taken straight off for ritual circumcision or a good flogging - just to concentrate the mind. | |||
".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it.. Have they actually broken any law? " Yes..Incitement | |||
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".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it.. Have they actually broken any law? Yes..Incitement" Did they? Was anyone actually incited to violence? Lots of people, including me, were made very angry about it but it didn't incite me to violence. | |||
".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it.. Have they actually broken any law? Yes..Incitement Did they? Was anyone actually incited to violence? Lots of people, including me, were made very angry about it but it didn't incite me to violence." You might have reacted differently though voyeur if you had been there..the word ''potential''' always plays a part...what they did could have so easily sparked a riot.. I would guess that the majority of people who have expressed opions on this on here and other sites are probably quite mild mannered and not at all racist...the thing is a lot of these people are now saying enoughs enough..these are the situations that feed the BNP...they must have been loving it. | |||
".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it.. ........... Have they actually broken any law? We may wholeheartedly disapprove of what they did (I certainly do!) but I wouldn't want to live in a society where freedom to protest - even in support of a supposed cause I abhor - was taken away just because most people disagree with what they're doing. I want people to be free to march in favour of and against abortion. I want people to be able to campaign for and against the reintroduction of capital punishment. I want people to be allowed to take to the streets in support of and in opposition to Scottish Independence. Even though I have strongly held _iews on all these subjects (and more)." Just because they may not have broken "the written law",doesn't mean to say they didn't commit public outrage. There used to be a law about behaviour likely to incite a riot,surely they come under that. Also many people would probably also agree with some, if not all, of the protests you mention. However, those protests are not designed to inflame public opinion as the Armistice protest was, it was an absolute outrage and deserved to be dealt with accordingly.R | |||
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"Showed this post to my partner..he travels loads in Europe and lived long abroad, but is a Yorkshire man through and through. He says do it like the French.. if someone burns a French flag and preaches hate against France..they are packed up and sent back to the countries they came from...end of story.. Maybe they are right? H. Should be like that here there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead. " hmmmm can't help thinking about their performance during WWII? | |||
"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country. Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens. Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises. Do as the French do and kick these scum out! XXXX Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born? Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London? Simple,any radical Muslim country. The sort of life style they seem to yearn for,it would obviously be doing them a kindness!" What about the WHITE middle class youths that piss on the poppies laid on war memorials?!! Just out of curiosity like, ship them out too?!! | |||
"Freedom of Speech is the foundation stone of democracy. Notwithstanding the politics, rights and wrongs of recent wars/conflicts it is what our Armed Forces fight and die for. If not our own then someone else's. However, with that freedom of speech, expression, thought and belief comes a massive responsibility. A responsibility not to abuse the privilige, not to use that hard fought for freedom to incite hatred and provoke violence and certainly not to use it to disrespect those who have given their lives that we may enjoy this freedom. It speaks volumes for the tolerance and nobility of the people of these islands that the disrespectful, disgraceful and hate filled protests today were not met with wholesale violence and rioting. It also speaks volumes for our beleaguered Police Force who, unarmed, maintained order and further protected the sanctity of free speech. There are many places in todays world where the Police and the Military would have swiftly, brutally, mercilessly and murderously quashed such a demonstration and the world wouldn't have skipped a beat. 'At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them'." thankyou | |||
"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country. Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens. Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises. Do as the French do and kick these scum out! XXXX Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born? Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London? Simple,any radical Muslim country. The sort of life style they seem to yearn for,it would obviously be doing them a kindness! What about the WHITE middle class youths that piss on the poppies laid on war memorials?!! Just out of curiosity like, ship them out too?!! " it certainly got more tv coverage and he was arrested for it if i recall | |||
".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it.. Have they actually broken any law? Yes..Incitement Did they? Was anyone actually incited to violence? Lots of people, including me, were made very angry about it but it didn't incite me to violence. You might have reacted differently though voyeur if you had been there..the word ''potential''' always plays a part...what they did could have so easily sparked a riot.. I would guess that the majority of people who have expressed opions on this on here and other sites are probably quite mild mannered and not at all racist...the thing is a lot of these people are now saying enoughs enough..these are the situations that feed the BNP...they must have been loving it." I'd still much rather live in a country where such protests, disgusting as I find them, are allowed than a dictatorship or nominal democracy where you're never sure what is, or isn't acceptable to the state. The BNP and the EDL and, probably, many other shadowy organisations will be rubbing their hands in glee at the behaviour seen earlier. I have no time for such extremists - in either direction but I'd much rather we tolerated such activities in public than drove them further and further underground where it can fester and grow to the point where controlling them becomes virtually impossible. | |||
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"Showed this post to my partner..he travels loads in Europe and lived long abroad, but is a Yorkshire man through and through. He says do it like the French.. if someone burns a French flag and preaches hate against France..they are packed up and sent back to the countries they came from...end of story.. Maybe they are right? H. they are now citizens of our country, some of them are since birth. the act they are committing is treason and it was at one time punishable by death. the only way forward is to ship the fuckers off to a muslim state where they can preach hatred against britain without the benefits of living here Should be like that here" | |||
" What about the WHITE middle class youths that piss on the poppies laid on war memorials?!! Just out of curiosity like, ship them out too?!! " ...and, I will just add, that whilst despicable, these were d*unken antics...disgraceful d*unken antics. what those men did today was malicious and deliberate | |||
".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it.. ........... Have they actually broken any law? We may wholeheartedly disapprove of what they did (I certainly do!) but I wouldn't want to live in a society where freedom to protest - even in support of a supposed cause I abhor - was taken away just because most people disagree with what they're doing. I want people to be free to march in favour of and against abortion. I want people to be able to campaign for and against the reintroduction of capital punishment. I want people to be allowed to take to the streets in support of and in opposition to Scottish Independence. Even though I have strongly held _iews on all these subjects (and more)." yes we must uphold the right to freely protest for the day we infringe upon it will be the day we infringe upon our own rights. | |||
"...................... there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead. hmmmm can't help thinking about their performance during WWII?" I was first in Paris in 1988 when bunch of us did the did the tourist things. Notre Dame, the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower. My first thought on seeing the size of the city of Paris stretched out below us was 'how was it possible for a comparitively small army to overrun a city of this size?' Once you start exploring France, especially the fiercely partisan areas well away from the north east corner it makes even less sense. It's impossible to draw any conclusion other than that they simply didn't bother trying. | |||
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"...................... there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead. hmmmm can't help thinking about their performance during WWII? I was first in Paris in 1988 when bunch of us did the did the tourist things. Notre Dame, the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower. My first thought on seeing the size of the city of Paris stretched out below us was 'how was it possible for a comparitively small army to overrun a city of this size?' Once you start exploring France, especially the fiercely partisan areas well away from the north east corner it makes even less sense. It's impossible to draw any conclusion other than that they simply didn't bother trying." Proud to be British and proud not to follow. | |||
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"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country. Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens. Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises. Do as the French do and kick these scum out! XXXX Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born? Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London? Simple,any radical Muslim country. The sort of life style they seem to yearn for,it would obviously be doing them a kindness! What about the WHITE middle class youths that piss on the poppies laid on war memorials?!! Just out of curiosity like, ship them out too?!! " Not shipped out but have seven shades knocked out of them. I don't care what colour or religion they are, a t**t is a t**t whether they're black, white, brown, yellow, Muslim or Christian.R | |||
"if people dont like the way we do things in this country, go to china!" whats wrong with china ?.. | |||
"if people dont like the way we do things in this country, go to china!" I believe that's what David Cameron did. Unfortunately he's coming back. | |||
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"ok seriously now. it does get me because if hitler had won all those protestors would never have been born. waves of religion and cultures would have been removed from the face of the earth and i think these people forget that." But he didn't win. He didn't win because enough people had enough faith in freedom to stand against him and all the evil he stood for. If you believe in freedom you don't get to pick the bits which suit your mindset. | |||
"ok seriously now. it does get me because if hitler had won all those protestors would never have been born. waves of religion and cultures would have been removed from the face of the earth and i think these people forget that." "these people" could be misleading. Would it not be better to state exactly who you are referring to? | |||
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"the people who do these kind of things are the ones who hide amongst us. they wait like a cunning fox. show their face to only accept their medal of disobedience to our beliefs then hope they can slip back into our society as if nothing has happened. they know what they have done. let us hope that they pay the price for soiling our icon for our troops." enough already Lurkio | |||
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""As for freedom of speech...it would be interesting to see how much freedom of speech was allowed if the situation was reversed...my guess would be zero...amazing how football supporters face a life ban from clubs and criminal prosecution for running on a pitch...or calling opposing supporters wankers..thats after the police have cracked a few over the head..affray and incitement are very often used against football supporters..but why not against those people today????????..." Probably because Muslims Against Crusades are fully briefed regarding the law regarding incitement to religious or racial hatred. Those who were arrested [three of them]were, according to press reports, arrested for other public order offences and for assaulting a Police Officer. None of their banners included racially or religiously motivated statements and their chants did not include foul or obscene language [as occurs at football matches]. Apparently, accusing British soldiers of murder is not an offence. If they had stated that Christian British Soldiers were murderers they may have committed an offence. If they shouted that Scottish/English/Welsh/Irish Christian W****r Soldiers were murderers they may have committed several offences. Ironically, they may also have committed an offence by lighting a fire on a pedestrian thoroughfare but not for burning a Poppy. Don't like it any more than the next person but that's why in this country we don't stone people to death or kill women who object to marrying someone who is not of their choosing. "You are right to postulate this and with these kinds of extremists (of any faith) you would barely be allowed to move. They scare me too. However, these "so-called" moslems DO NOT respresent the mainstream moslems who are law-abiding, respectful and community oriented. Most of us know at least one moslem and if you don't maybe you should reach out a hand and see? | |||
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"as you say,others died so they can protest. celtic fans held up banner that some found distasteful. Louis on x factor wore a poppy the last two shows,mary did the first week but not the second. was wearing it costing her irish votes? i wore a poppy and observed the silence out of respect as i do every year but its not compulsory. and i detest the EDL but the member who tried to jump the barrier and attack the protesters..good try fella" Irishmen have died in thier thousands fighting for Britain for centuries, not wearing the poppy because you are Irish is showing disrespect to the men of the Irish Regiments who came from Southern Ireland to defend thier neighbours. The same goes for the Welsh, Scottish and Men of Northern Ireland but they were British, the men from the South of Ireland did so by choice and have earned thier poppies. | |||
"ok seriously now. it does get me because if hitler had won all those protestors would never have been born. waves of religion and cultures would have been removed from the face of the earth and i think these people forget that. But he didn't win. He didn't win because enough people had enough faith in freedom to stand against him and all the evil he stood for. " Erm, no, he didn't win because there were too many Russians, simple as that, and Uncle Joe wasn't exactly a proponent of "freedom" in any way shape or form, was he? As for Muslims, well, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was more than happy to side with Hitler and encourage all Muslims to fight against the Allies. It was Muslim SS divisions like "Handschaar" and "Skandebeg" that were responsible for the countless atrocities whilst on "anti-partisan" duties which largely sullied the Waffen SS' reputation as a fighting elite forever. However, in contrast to the Germanic divisions, they were badly disciplined and generally shit their pants and deserted as soon as the Red Army troops rolled up against them. Their legacy lives on though, there was controversy a couple of years ago when the Croats fielded a division called "Handschaar", understandably the Serbs considered that provocative and offensive. Obviously, no-one in the Balkans learned anything from the World Wars or the conflicts since. But then as far as religion is concerned, we never have learned anything, basically because it's all a load of abstract bollocks. In short, Muslim or Christian (or Jew, for that matter) will always be at odds, because each one is convinced they are right and their invisible friend in the sky is on their side. Unfortunately for us in this nominally Christian country, the dominant religion is based upon "turning the other cheek" and forgiving those that trespass against us. The potential usurpers' faith, whatever else it stands for, advocates killing non-believers, apostates, blasphemers etc etc. Perhaps if there were truly Martial Christians, Crusaders, there could take place a proper fight to see whose religion is "correct". Not that I give a shit, I spit on the bible and koran, it's just that I know that one side would kill me, the other would forgive and encourage me to repent. Fuck 'em all, kill the lot, both sides, their God will recognise his own (if he exists). In this age of science and reason we could do without being held to ransom by gullible fuckwits who thinks any supreme being is looking down on their every move. Ah, that's better...  | |||
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""I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". Voltaire." It wasn't actually Voltaire who wrote that. His biographer used the phrase to sum up Voltaire's belief in freedom of speech. | |||
" I'm not a woolly liberal, I do get angry about this stuff as well but it doesn't change anything. The only answer I can see is from the religious leaders themselves to stop being so bloody timid and actually speak out about these issues. I firmly believe that all the major Abrahamic faiths need to put their house in order and out and openly discourage such acts. If the moderates fail to speak out then the extremists just slowly gain ground. " nailed it. | |||
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"Doesnt matter if it was 30 or 30000 they should still be arrested as what they did goes beyond freedom of speech. What would happen if me and 29 others went down to Bradford or somewhere and started burning the Koran?" I dont disagree with that in the slightest, they should have the book thrown at them, i have no sympathy with them what so ever. what i am saying is that there were 30 people there, not the entire islamic population. some people are just radical, they just like trouble | |||
"Doesnt matter if it was 30 or 30000 they should still be arrested as what they did goes beyond freedom of speech. What would happen if me and 29 others went down to Bradford or somewhere and started burning the Koran?" in all likelihood you would be arrested. attacked? maybe. journalist Michael Kelly (who was the first US journalist to be killed in the Iraq war) wrote an article about about militia the US who believed that left wing and right wing idelogies should converge to fight a common enemy.he called it 'Fusion Paranoia' relevant in this context? maybe not but he said "They question everything, and believe nothing but what is proven to their own satisfaction, until they have refigured the world. In this way, truth lies. Unfortunately, so does madness." "They are undone by an excess of expectation and a dearth of imagination, by the failure of their country to live up to itself, and by their own failure to explain how this can have happened." I kinda see his point | |||
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" Before the USA came into the war we bought Billions of £s worth of equipment from them, so much so that we only finished paying for it in the 1980s. " ...because of the interest rates that the US imposed on that loan; they basically crippled us. they knew we needed their assistance and even years after the war they refused to either lower or drop the extortionate rates they placed. | |||
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"...................... there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead. hmmmm can't help thinking about their performance during WWII? I was first in Paris in 1988 when bunch of us did the did the tourist things. Notre Dame, the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower. My first thought on seeing the size of the city of Paris stretched out below us was 'how was it possible for a comparitively small army to overrun a city of this size?' Once you start exploring France, especially the fiercely partisan areas well away from the north east corner it makes even less sense. It's impossible to draw any conclusion other than that they simply didn't bother trying." Lots of very brave Frenchmen & women did just that. Members of the FFI, the Maquis, the Free French Forces etc continued the fight even when the odds were insurmountable. Just because the Govt. decided to capitulate doesn't mean the people did. The FFI (Free French of the Interior) continued to fight a full-scale guerrilla war from the central highlands of France for over 4yrs, it just doesn't suit our Anglo-centric mindest to remember this. | |||
"Grandad always said "the idea of people fought in a war so people like me had freedom was bollox" He fought in a war, because the bastards put him on a ship, gave him a gun and said "shoot the enemy or they will shoot you" So he fought for his survival an the idea that it was for future generations never entered his mind.... though it gave old guys somthing to moan about. " that may pretty much sum up the situation in WWI in which troops were basically used as weapons and were sent to fight with little or no equipment. This was a time when Britons were not free at all. The "Rich" ruled with an iron hand and many went to war to earn money. Do not believe it when anyone tells you that Britain is the oldest democracy in the world. Read some history books instead. | |||
"Grandad always said "the idea of people fought in a war so people like me had freedom was bollox" He fought in a war, because the bastards put him on a ship, gave him a gun and said "shoot the enemy or they will shoot you" So he fought for his survival an the idea that it was for future generations never entered his mind.... though it gave old guys somthing to moan about. that may pretty much sum up the situation in WWI in which troops were basically used as weapons and were sent to fight with little or no equipment. This was a time when Britons were not free at all. The "Rich" ruled with an iron hand and many went to war to earn money. Do not believe it when anyone tells you that Britain is the oldest democracy in the world. Read some history books instead." Warfare for several centuries was embarked upon by both the nobles, gentry & commons alike for personal gain. Ransom (of a titled enemy) was the name of the game for the highborn, whilst uncontrolled thievery was a way of making a lifetimes cash for the rest. English troops during the 100yrs War committed many a 'chevauchee' in which the army would form a line, march, & steal, kill & destroy everything & anything in it's path. The ostensible aim was to force the French to come out of their fortresses & fight, but the aim for most of the troops was to steal as much as they could. Many men went home rich enough to buy businesses, marry & settle down in comfort whilst some nobles became richer than the Crown itself! | |||
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"...................... there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead. hmmmm can't help thinking about their performance during WWII? I was first in Paris in 1988 when bunch of us did the did the tourist things. Notre Dame, the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower. My first thought on seeing the size of the city of Paris stretched out below us was 'how was it possible for a comparitively small army to overrun a city of this size?' Once you start exploring France, especially the fiercely partisan areas well away from the north east corner it makes even less sense. It's impossible to draw any conclusion other than that they simply didn't bother trying. Lots of very brave Frenchmen & women did just that. Members of the FFI, the Maquis, the Free French Forces etc continued the fight even when the odds were insurmountable. Just because the Govt. decided to capitulate doesn't mean the people did. The FFI (Free French of the Interior) continued to fight a full-scale guerrilla war from the central highlands of France for over 4yrs, it just doesn't suit our Anglo-centric mindest to remember this." I'd only disagree with the 'lots'. That and the accusation of Anglo-centricity | |||
""I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". Voltaire. It wasn't actually Voltaire who wrote that. His biographer used the phrase to sum up Voltaire's belief in freedom of speech." Didn't say he wrote it. It couldn't be found in any of his writings. He may have said it. It was certainly attributed to him. | |||
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"As Martin Niemöller famously quoted... They came first for the Communists & I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists & I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews & I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me & by that time no one was left to speak up. Our freedom is at a price & should be respected." its very famous , its been quoted in the threads about 16 times now | |||
"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country. Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens. Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises. Do as the French do and kick these scum out! XXXX Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born? Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London? Simple,any radical Muslim country. The sort of life style they seem to yearn for,it would obviously be doing them a kindness! What about the WHITE middle class youths that piss on the poppies laid on war memorials?!! Just out of curiosity like, ship them out too?!! " No...just give them a really...really good kicking. | |||
"eeeee ba gum, they're a picky lot!" E baa gum a northern practice of administering MDMA by injecting it into the soft tissue lining of the mouth | |||
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"Ok dont send the extremists anywhere, take them a few hundred miles out in the Atlantic and drop them off at least they wont be trying to blow anyone else up." They weren't trying to blow anyone up.....they were protesting. According to the Met Police today they gain more by recording the antics of these scum and collating later intelligence on them than they do by arresting them then having to let them go within a couple of hours on a public order warning. | |||
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"Ok dont send the extremists anywhere, take them a few hundred miles out in the Atlantic and drop them off at least they wont be trying to blow anyone else up." That'd make us as bad as them. Not in my name you don't. | |||
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"So, whilst the rest of us ignore the politics and show our respect for those that have fought to defend and protect our country and our liberties, Muslims Against Crusades decide to burn the emblem that has come to symbolise our respect for those that we remember and marching on before clashing with our police. I recognise there are a few debates circulating recently about the power of protest and I'm a big believer in protecting our rights and in allowing everyone the freedom of speech...but should this be allowed, does it not incite hatred? our soldiers fight to protect our rights and have actually allowed these protesters the freedom to protest. I can't think of a greater disrespect" It's simple really, they should have been arrested under section 5 of the public order laws.... but of course that didnt happen, for fear of "offending" the muslim community ffs! | |||
"I live and work in London. I went thru edgware tube station exactly 1 hour before the bomb went off there on 7/7. i have also been in central london when a bomb was detonated by a white republican group. I don't make a distinction between the two. terrorism is terrorism to me, but then they're somebody else's freedom fighters. all i know is that if muslim extremists chant anti british slogans or a republican rattles a bucket in front of me(as has happened before) I'm gonna get the hump and probably punch em. now let's just say the worst of the worst happens, a bomb goes off and one of my family is maimed or killed because someone thinks that they have a just cause to randomly kill people. one of my reactions to this would be to go and kill extremists chanting anti british slogans or irishman raising funds in london pubs in order to blow up other london buildings. now,I am quite aware that is a totally barbaric attitude,but then so is blowing up tube trains or Harrods. not all muslims are extremists but those who are can't complain if the rhetoric they are spouting comes back to bite them on the arse." You'll get no arguments from me on that. Good post. | |||
"A reminder about Muslim extremism in the UK.....I know I keep saying it but to some it just doesn't sink home when they scream 'Send them back' Every one of the 7th July muslim suicide bombers in London were British born..... The WHITE muslim convert from Plymouth who attempted to bomb Exeter city shopping centre (both my sons were in the vacinity that day).....born in Britain British born muslims one and all, and the majority of the 25-30 muslims protesting in London yesterday were probably British born... The way to look at it is do these 25-30 scum infested protestors REALLY represent the thoughts and feelings of the 1.8 Million Muslims who live in Britain today? I think probably very unlikely.... " Well if thats the case its time those 1.8 million Muslims got off the fence and showed how British minded they are by nipping the extremists in the bud. They know who they are and have the power to stop it. All it takes for evil to prevail is for a few good men to do nothing. XXXX | |||
"A reminder about Muslim extremism in the UK.....I know I keep saying it but to some it just doesn't sink home when they scream 'Send them back' Every one of the 7th July muslim suicide bombers in London were British born..... The WHITE muslim convert from Plymouth who attempted to bomb Exeter city shopping centre (both my sons were in the vacinity that day).....born in Britain British born muslims one and all, and the majority of the 25-30 muslims protesting in London yesterday were probably British born... The way to look at it is do these 25-30 scum infested protestors REALLY represent the thoughts and feelings of the 1.8 Million Muslims who live in Britain today? I think probably very unlikely.... Well if thats the case its time those 1.8 million Muslims got off the fence and showed how British minded they are by nipping the extremists in the bud. They know who they are and have the power to stop it. All it takes for evil to prevail is for a few good men to do nothing. XXXX" On that we totally agree..... | |||
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"So, whilst the rest of us ignore the politics and show our respect for those that have fought to defend and protect our country and our liberties, Muslims Against Crusades decide to burn the emblem that has come to symbolise our respect for those that we remember and marching on before clashing with our police. I recognise there are a few debates circulating recently about the power of protest and I'm a big believer in protecting our rights and in allowing everyone the freedom of speech...but should this be allowed, does it not incite hatred? our soldiers fight to protect our rights and have actually allowed these protesters the freedom to protest. I can't think of a greater disrespect It's simple really, they should have been arrested under section 5 of the public order laws.... but of course that didnt happen, for fear of "offending" the muslim community ffs!" It's pretty much a toothless law, slap on the wrist and a small fine.....the fact is that there were many many more Muslims wearing British uniforms yesterday than there were protesting....and that is the real measure of the insignificance of those 25 odd scum. | |||
"Google Kris Donald and have a look at the consequences of the police being told to back of from a group of muslims who were causing havoc in an area of glasgow for fear off accusations of racism." I think you will find there have been more than enough racist attacks on BOTH sides, none better than the other | |||
"Google Kris Donald and have a look at the consequences of the police being told to back of from a group of muslims who were causing havoc in an area of glasgow for fear off accusations of racism." That'd be KrisS Donald. I'm astonished the Donald story didn't produce a bigger backlash against the BME community than it has. Sarwar senior did much to calming fears of open warfare at the time but anyone daft enough to find themselves in or around Pollokshields or Govanhill can feel the tension which still permeates the areas. | |||
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"I wasnt refering to the attacks I was talking about the police letting them carry on causing havoc in the area for fear of being accused of racism and a 15 year old boy died a horrible death thriugh it. And do you honestly think that if it had been a gang of whites that the police would have let them carry on? Make your answer as honest as you can. " I honestly don't know. Pollokshields is pretty lawless territory where racism is concerned and, in my experience, both sides are as bad as each other. I say 'each' other but that might imply there are two armed camps in this conflict. I doubt that's the case. I'm told there are similar conflicts amongst the BME community over such matters as levels of devotion as there are amongst white Scottish kids over territory. An example I'd cite is the continued campaign allegedly by hard core Pakistani guys in Pollokshields against the the (Pakistani) owners of Pakistani Cafe over their policy of selling alcohol to customers. | |||
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"I will just cite the case of Stephen Lawrence and how the Met Police never properly investigated the case because of pressures from within the white dominated Freemasons..... A clearly racially motivated cold blooded murder, with an investigation manipulated by senior officers to keep certain sections of the community onside. Nothing new...." You're really going to have to explain that left-fielder to the rest of us. | |||
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"High treason is disloyalty to the sovereign These acts have been carried out in the UK " How is setting fire to a bunch of poppies, objectionable as it is to right thinking folk, 'disloyalty to the Sovereign'? | |||
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"So all immigrants and celtic supporters are drawing benefits guy4u." That's a bit below the belt. If we're going to make this work we need to avoid such comments. | |||
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"High treason is disloyalty to the sovereign These acts have been carried out in the UK " Sorry but you are thinking of Petty Treason, short of being found guilty of making a direct attempt on the life of the ruling Monarch you will not be charged with Treason in the UK anymore. Just being disloyal to the Monarch will not see you convicted. The last person to hang for Treason (William Joyce in 1945) was ultimately wrongly convicted of the crime in the true letter of the law, they never went so far as to give him a postumous Royal pardon but it is widely accepted that in a modern court of law he would not have been convicted. | |||
"It was a question as guy4u seemed to imply it. And religion seems to cause more trouble than anything else in this world" If you're gonna ask a question, a question mark helps. Religion HAS been the historic cause of trouble in the past but it's increasingly becoming such matters as access to water, room to accomodate people and so on that puts people's hackles up. The west of Scotland proddy/ cafflik divide has less to with religion than it has to do with disparity of opportunity. The thick as mince bigots, ON BOTH SIDES, revel in their position. | |||
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"He just stating that for many years Celtic fans have abused British soldiers even when at grounds in Scotland, singing songs against the British soldier's as they marched off with pride" That's an absolute truth in exactly the same way as we know you can't pass a law against stupidity. | |||
"I also find guy4u's comment an insult to the two celtic supporters from Greenock who lost their lives in Afghanistan recently. " They lost their lives because they were Jocks - not because they were Celtic supporters. | |||
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"Yes Yorkshire I agree but they are also in the minority there are also an awful lot of celtic supporters serving in the British army." Are there? I confess I don't know the answer to that but, given the history of the Troubles, I doubt it. | |||
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"I am Catholic but I am also Scottish/British not Irish. Dont insult me by implying that we are all anti British" Who was that directed at? (Question mark. See?) | |||
"I am Catholic but I am also Scottish/British not Irish. Dont insult me by implying that we are all anti British" Who are you replying to? | |||
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"my own _iew, but every single one and there relatives put on 1st plane out 2 most deserted hottest backward muslim province where they can pray 2 alah and hate us to there hearts content, suppose its british and being well mannerd and respectful but we dont abuse other countries when there, look what happens there! Were to soft!" and their relatives? The SS lives once more. | |||
"at the end of the day ,some people like fighting , i dont like it but how can you stop them ?" knock some sense into them! simples | |||
"So, whilst the rest of us ignore the politics and show our respect for those that have fought to defend and protect our country and our liberties, Muslims Against Crusades decide to burn the emblem that has come to symbolise our respect for those that we remember and marching on before clashing with our police. I recognise there are a few debates circulating recently about the power of protest and I'm a big believer in protecting our rights and in allowing everyone the freedom of speech...but should this be allowed, does it not incite hatred? our soldiers fight to protect our rights and have actually allowed these protesters the freedom to protest. I can't think of a greater disrespect It's simple really, they should have been arrested under section 5 of the public order laws.... but of course that didnt happen, for fear of "offending" the muslim community ffs! It's pretty much a toothless law, slap on the wrist and a small fine.....the fact is that there were many many more Muslims wearing British uniforms yesterday than there were protesting....and that is the real measure of the insignificance of those 25 odd scum." Thankyou | |||
"A reminder about Muslim extremism in the UK.....I know I keep saying it but to some it just doesn't sink home when they scream 'Send them back' Every one of the 7th July muslim suicide bombers in London were British born..... The WHITE muslim convert from Plymouth who attempted to bomb Exeter city shopping centre (both my sons were in the vacinity that day).....born in Britain British born muslims one and all, and the majority of the 25-30 muslims protesting in London yesterday were probably British born... The way to look at it is do these 25-30 scum infested protestors REALLY represent the thoughts and feelings of the 1.8 Million Muslims who live in Britain today? I think probably very unlikely.... Well if thats the case its time those 1.8 million Muslims got off the fence and showed how British minded they are by nipping the extremists in the bud. They know who they are and have the power to stop it. All it takes for evil to prevail is for a few good men to do nothing. XXXX" What makes you think they know who they are? What a strange comment. | |||
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"the fact is that there were many many more Muslims wearing British uniforms yesterday than there were protesting....and that is the real measure of the insignificance of those 25 odd scum." Yes, over ten times as many Muslims are currently in the armed forces than were protesting. Muslims currently in UK Armed Forces (approx) : 390. Total manpower of UK armed forces: 233,860. UK Muslim soldiers killed in Afghanistan : 1 Total Muslim population of Uk (approx, as of Jacqui Smith's statement, 2008) : 2 million Yep, they appear to be doing their bit. Pfft! Armistice Day Muslim protesters are a pain in the arse, but nothing more, they certainly didn't disturb my 2 minute silence. The twats in hoodies on BMXs did, and I'll hazard a guess they came from nominally Christian backgrounds. I couldn't physically grab them, so I ignored them, as did everyone else, they are insignificant splodges of dog cum.That's the price of freedom, I guess, the freedom to act like a twat whenever you want. I do it all the time (yeah yeah), and if a cop tells me I can't go down a certain road one day, I'm the first to call him a Nazi cunt and demand to exercise my freedom. It doesn't make me a traitor, I support freedom as long as it's going my way. Such is the way of the world. What's really being expressed here, by several posters, and I dare say silently supported by many more, is a growing unease with the make up of the UK population. It's time we faced up to it and stopped disguising our discontent with overly sentimental attachment to non-religious things like Poppy Day, which is after all, derived from the slaughter imposed on troops of all faiths back in 1914-1918 by fuckwits like General Haig with his "bleed 'em white" insistence on Over The Top assaults. Far from being a glorious sacrifice, IMHO it is remembrance for the criminally short-sighted tactics of the generals, and the blind obedience of the troops. Sad, but not heroic, really, to charge a machine gun position just because someone tells you to. "Fuck you buddy, charge it yourself, I'm keeping my head down, the sensible thing to do." (BANG, shot for cowardice!) So, back to the underlying anxiety here, it's the absolute incompatibility of Islam with our way of life in the nominally Christian UK. The vast majority of UK Christians never go to church, or ever take part in any religious ritual, apart from wishing baby Jesus a Happy Birthday and getting pissed on Dec 25th. That's fine, that's great, that's FREEDOM for you. I spit on the bible, it's a book, a comic book, I wipe my arse on it. Many Christians would frown at that, but they will be sure I'll get my punishment when I get to the Pearly Gates and a bloke with a white beard says "No, not here, you're going downstairs". I'll take my chances ta, I'm free to do it, and hurrah for that. Freedom means being able to question, challenge, and make your own mistakes. If I wiped my arse on the Koran, I'd be a dead man walking. The Muslim hot-heads would demand my instant death, and the silent majority would agree, or let me be killed. They certainly wouldn't be out defending my freedom to wipe my arse on whatever I wanted. Until all these apparently "peaceful, law-abiding" Muslims here in the UK come out and say it's OK for me to wipe my arse on any paper, whatever might be written on it, to draw cartoons of their prophet, whatever, and that I will get my punishment from a Supreme Being when I die of natural causes, then I have to assume that the hotheads speak for them. They have to accept that ALL religion is quite possibly utter bullshit, and that until a great big hand comes out of the cloud and squashes me under its thumb, it's more than acceptable for me or anyone else to dismiss religious belief as a confidence trick which traps the weak-minded. Now, who do I write to about the new TV program I've written, a follow up to Father Ted, called "Imam Abdul"? It's fucking hilarious...... | |||
"...................... there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead. hmmmm can't help thinking about their performance during WWII? I was first in Paris in 1988 when bunch of us did the did the tourist things. Notre Dame, the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower. My first thought on seeing the size of the city of Paris stretched out below us was 'how was it possible for a comparitively small army to overrun a city of this size?' Once you start exploring France, especially the fiercely partisan areas well away from the north east corner it makes even less sense. It's impossible to draw any conclusion other than that they simply didn't bother trying. Lots of very brave Frenchmen & women did just that. Members of the FFI, the Maquis, the Free French Forces etc continued the fight even when the odds were insurmountable. Just because the Govt. decided to capitulate doesn't mean the people did. The FFI (Free French of the Interior) continued to fight a full-scale guerrilla war from the central highlands of France for over 4yrs, it just doesn't suit our Anglo-centric mindest to remember this. I'd only disagree with the 'lots'. That and the accusation of Anglo-centricity "The FFI wasn't a recognised entity until AFTER France had been invaded by the Allies in 1944. Until then "The Resistance" were unco-ordinated groups who were often toe-to-toe with their countrymen whose interests didn't match theirs. It was less a case of fighting to liberate France, and more a case of acting like organised crime gangs. This caused considerable problems to SOE agents dropped into France ahead of D-Day, they found that Maquis groups were more interested in fighting against other resistance units, settling scores, than against the Germans. There being no contact or co-ordination between different groups meant that trying to organise serious resistance was nigh on impossible, the agents would instruct one group, then go and try to make contact with a neighbouring group, only to find that the first had ignored all their instruction and were doing their own thing. It was their complete refusal to accept authority from Allied command and unite for a common goal that led to atrocities like the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre, when SS "Das Reich" troops killed 642 men women and children. This was a result of their frustration at being hampered all the way up through France by partisan attacks, culminating in the abduction of a popular officer, and a military ambulance crew being tortured to death by partisans. A Maquis assault on a German garrison had almost succeeded until SS troops arrived and relieved the garrison, but the guerillas had killed and mutilated surrendered German troops, provoking reprisal hangings and ultimately the massacre at Oradour. More the actions of armed thugs than glorious freedom fighters. After the atrocity at Oradour, The Allies ordered ALL resistance activities in the sector to cease, to prevent any further reprisals against civilians . Rather than being a cohesive paramilitary force to be reckoned with, the local Maquis just provoked a battle-hardened elite Waffen SS division into committing an appalling war-crime, despite warnings not to. Way to go, fellas! Of course, as soon as the Normandy break-out began and the Germans started to retreat, all the French were keen to claim that they had been in the "Resistance" all along. Quel surprise! | |||
"the fact is that there were many many more Muslims wearing British uniforms yesterday than there were protesting....and that is the real measure of the insignificance of those 25 odd scum. Yes, over ten times as many Muslims are currently in the armed forces than were protesting. most sensible thing ive ever read on this subject. certaily on this site . Muslims currently in UK Armed Forces (approx) : 390. Total manpower of UK armed forces: 233,860. UK Muslim soldiers killed in Afghanistan : 1 Total Muslim population of Uk (approx, as of Jacqui Smith's statement, 2008) : 2 million Yep, they appear to be doing their bit. Pfft! Armistice Day Muslim protesters are a pain in the arse, but nothing more, they certainly didn't disturb my 2 minute silence. The twats in hoodies on BMXs did, and I'll hazard a guess they came from nominally Christian backgrounds. I couldn't physically grab them, so I ignored them, as did everyone else, they are insignificant splodges of dog cum.That's the price of freedom, I guess, the freedom to act like a twat whenever you want. I do it all the time (yeah yeah), and if a cop tells me I can't go down a certain road one day, I'm the first to call him a Nazi cunt and demand to exercise my freedom. It doesn't make me a traitor, I support freedom as long as it's going my way. Such is the way of the world. What's really being expressed here, by several posters, and I dare say silently supported by many more, is a growing unease with the make up of the UK population. It's time we faced up to it and stopped disguising our discontent with overly sentimental attachment to non-religious things like Poppy Day, which is after all, derived from the slaughter imposed on troops of all faiths back in 1914-1918 by fuckwits like General Haig with his "bleed 'em white" insistence on Over The Top assaults. Far from being a glorious sacrifice, IMHO it is remembrance for the criminally short-sighted tactics of the generals, and the blind obedience of the troops. Sad, but not heroic, really, to charge a machine gun position just because someone tells you to. "Fuck you buddy, charge it yourself, I'm keeping my head down, the sensible thing to do." (BANG, shot for cowardice!) So, back to the underlying anxiety here, it's the absolute incompatibility of Islam with our way of life in the nominally Christian UK. The vast majority of UK Christians never go to church, or ever take part in any religious ritual, apart from wishing baby Jesus a Happy Birthday and getting pissed on Dec 25th. That's fine, that's great, that's FREEDOM for you. I spit on the bible, it's a book, a comic book, I wipe my arse on it. Many Christians would frown at that, but they will be sure I'll get my punishment when I get to the Pearly Gates and a bloke with a white beard says "No, not here, you're going downstairs". I'll take my chances ta, I'm free to do it, and hurrah for that. Freedom means being able to question, challenge, and make your own mistakes. If I wiped my arse on the Koran, I'd be a dead man walking. The Muslim hot-heads would demand my instant death, and the silent majority would agree, or let me be killed. They certainly wouldn't be out defending my freedom to wipe my arse on whatever I wanted. Until all these apparently "peaceful, law-abiding" Muslims here in the UK come out and say it's OK for me to wipe my arse on any paper, whatever might be written on it, to draw cartoons of their prophet, whatever, and that I will get my punishment from a Supreme Being when I die of natural causes, then I have to assume that the hotheads speak for them. They have to accept that ALL religion is quite possibly utter bullshit, and that until a great big hand comes out of the cloud and squashes me under its thumb, it's more than acceptable for me or anyone else to dismiss religious belief as a confidence trick which traps the weak-minded. Now, who do I write to about the new TV program I've written, a follow up to Father Ted, called "Imam Abdul"? It's fucking hilarious......" | |||
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