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Duckenfield......
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"But if the gates had`nt been opened maybe more would have died as there were thousands of fans outside at the time, so maybe a case of damned if he did, and damned if he did`nt,,,," no they wouldn't have as there were area's to where the police could have moved them.. opening the gates and not having the tunnel closed as had previously been done when the 2 central enclosures were full as they were on the day led to the crush which caused the loss of life.. the tunnel wasn't even policed so couldn't be closed off even if he had known what to do.. | |||
"But if the gates had`nt been opened maybe more would have died as there were thousands of fans outside at the time, so maybe a case of damned if he did, and damned if he did`nt,,,," The whole day was a shocking mess. | |||
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"Not the best of days for us living in Hillsborough !" why? | |||
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"Please let's not argue on this thread. He's admitted his wrong doing and its about blinking time X " I suspect he wishes he had come clean at the time. I doubt he wilfully did anything on that day that was intended to lead to the deaths of anyone, and in that respect I feel for him. Where I don't is the wilful cover up of exactly what went wrong. The fact that is has taken over 25 years to get to the truth of a tragic day will always be a disgrace and shameful to those involved. | |||
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"But if the gates had`nt been opened maybe more would have died as there were thousands of fans outside at the time, so maybe a case of damned if he did, and damned if he did`nt,,,," Which is why I, for one, will be waiting until the end of the whole process before blaming everything on one man. There are always so many factors that come together in any tragedy, and this one is no different. However, one thing I'm pretty sure we can all agree with on, is that not a single one of those who died were in any way responsible. And that the ensuing coverup and smears were the far bigger crime. Mr ddc | |||
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"I just hope it brings closure for the families, whatever happens and to whom, " I hope so too | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was " Wow. You’ve clearly never lost a family member in tragic (and unavoidable) circumstances There were a number of myths about the fans’ behaviour on that day - an inquest in 2016 cleared them of any misconduct. Maybe someone else should do their homework....  | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was " I'm not a Scouser I am however a Nottingham Forest fan, and that day will haunt me, and my friends who were there, forever. Kindly take your opinion & attitude, and shove it where the sun doesn't shine | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow. You’ve clearly never lost a family member in tragic (and unavoidable) circumstances There were a number of myths about the fans’ behaviour on that day - an inquest in 2016 cleared them of any misconduct. Maybe someone else should do their homework.... "I’ve seen them do it with my own eyes mate, on more than one occasion. No homework needed here. What happened was a tragedy. But spending millions of pounds of tax payers money on a random witch hunt is ridiculous and their reaction to 12 members of the public agreeing with that is shameful | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow. You’ve clearly never lost a family member in tragic (and unavoidable) circumstances There were a number of myths about the fans’ behaviour on that day - an inquest in 2016 cleared them of any misconduct. Maybe someone else should do their homework....
I’ve seen them do it with my own eyes mate, on more than one occasion. No homework needed here. What happened was a tragedy. But spending millions of pounds of tax payers money on a random witch hunt is ridiculous and their reaction to 12 members of the public agreeing with that is shameful "You saw the Hillsborough disaster with your own eyes? My mistake - so what happened then? What did the fans do that made you say they should take the majority of the blame for the tragedy on that day? | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow. You’ve clearly never lost a family member in tragic (and unavoidable) circumstances There were a number of myths about the fans’ behaviour on that day - an inquest in 2016 cleared them of any misconduct. Maybe someone else should do their homework....
I’ve seen them do it with my own eyes mate, on more than one occasion. No homework needed here. What happened was a tragedy. But spending millions of pounds of tax payers money on a random witch hunt is ridiculous and their reaction to 12 members of the public agreeing with that is shameful
You saw the Hillsborough disaster with your own eyes? My mistake - so what happened then? What did the fans do that made you say they should take the majority of the blame for the tragedy on that day? "No, I’ve seen the way their fans behave at football matches, on many many occasions. Have you ever heard of the term jibbing in? | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was " Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow. You’ve clearly never lost a family member in tragic (and unavoidable) circumstances There were a number of myths about the fans’ behaviour on that day - an inquest in 2016 cleared them of any misconduct. Maybe someone else should do their homework....
I’ve seen them do it with my own eyes mate, on more than one occasion. No homework needed here. What happened was a tragedy. But spending millions of pounds of tax payers money on a random witch hunt is ridiculous and their reaction to 12 members of the public agreeing with that is shameful
You saw the Hillsborough disaster with your own eyes? My mistake - so what happened then? What did the fans do that made you say they should take the majority of the blame for the tragedy on that day?
No, I’ve seen the way their fans behave at football matches, on many many occasions. Have you ever heard of the term jibbing in? "That is an entirely different subject matter, though. What has a sweeping generalisation about football hooliganism got to do with the Hillsborough tragedy? Absolutely nothing, because on that day, it was proven not to be a contributing factor to what happened. Why don’t you start your own thread about that if it’s bothering you, instead of making misinformed and misleading comments about a highly emotive topic. | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. "  | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. " The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games " As should you. You weren't there, you didn't see it with your own eyes. Those of us that were, know the truth. I for one will keep on campaigning the families left devestated by this tragedy. We won't shut up & just go away | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games " The inquest wasn't wrong. Yesterday's judgement on Duckenfield was nothing to do with the inquest findings. Even Duckenfield admits that his decisions that day led to the people being killed. You really are very ill informed. | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games " I know people who were there. I haven’t read the Guardian, thanks. Duckenfield was cleared of charges, that doesn’t mean the fans were to blame. It means it was a tragic accident. Your comments are disgusting - branding a whole group of Liverpool supporters in that way. | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games The inquest wasn't wrong. Yesterday's judgement on Duckenfield was nothing to do with the inquest findings. Even Duckenfield admits that his decisions that day led to the people being killed. You really are very ill informed. " | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games As should you. You weren't there, you didn't see it with your own eyes. Those of us that were, know the truth. I for one will keep on campaigning the families left devestated by this tragedy. We won't shut up & just go away " | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games The inquest wasn't wrong. Yesterday's judgement on Duckenfield was nothing to do with the inquest findings. Even Duckenfield admits that his decisions that day led to the people being killed. You really are very ill informed. " Then why wasn’t he found guilty? The fact is that his decision did lead to innocent people being crushed, but that it was an honest mistake made by a inexperienced guy trying to do his best in very difficult circimstances. That criteria doesn’t fit a manslaughter charge as was proven yesterday. So instead of 96 victims that day, there are now 97. It’s cost us millions of pounds to peruse a case that was never going to end in conviction and all to appease a bunch of biased people who in the main had compensation claims going through (that there was a blanket media ban on reporting). Like money is going to make you feel better 30 years later | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games I know people who were there. I haven’t read the Guardian, thanks. Duckenfield was cleared of charges, that doesn’t mean the fans were to blame. It means it was a tragic accident. Your comments are disgusting - branding a whole group of Liverpool supporters in that way. " How many games have you been to where you have seen Liverpool supporters acting in their natural environment? | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games The inquest wasn't wrong. Yesterday's judgement on Duckenfield was nothing to do with the inquest findings. Even Duckenfield admits that his decisions that day led to the people being killed. You really are very ill informed. Then why wasn’t he found guilty? The fact is that his decision did lead to innocent people being crushed, but that it was an honest mistake made by a inexperienced guy trying to do his best in very difficult circimstances. That criteria doesn’t fit a manslaughter charge as was proven yesterday. So instead of 96 victims that day, there are now 97. It’s cost us millions of pounds to peruse a case that was never going to end in conviction and all to appease a bunch of biased people who in the main had compensation claims going through (that there was a blanket media ban on reporting). Like money is going to make you feel better 30 years later " I’m not arguing whether he should or shouldn’t have been found guilty. That’s for the courts to decide and got good reasons they’ve made that decision. My issue is with your sweeping comment that “the majority of this blame lies with their supporters”. You are essentially shifting the blame from a man who was yesterday found innocent, to an entire group of people, with absolutely no evidence to back that up. And you’re also doing it in a disparaging and offensive way by referring to “whinging scousers”. That’s my issue. | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games I know people who were there. I haven’t read the Guardian, thanks. Duckenfield was cleared of charges, that doesn’t mean the fans were to blame. It means it was a tragic accident. Your comments are disgusting - branding a whole group of Liverpool supporters in that way. How many games have you been to where you have seen Liverpool supporters acting in their natural environment? " That’s not in the slightest bit relevant. I am not arguing that football hooliganism does not exist. I am also not saying that *some* Liverpool supporters, as well as supporters of a number of other teams, *can* at times act in ways that could be described as hooliganism. But you’re relating this to Hillsborough with no evidence. As I’ve repeatedly said, the part I have an issue with is your sweeping generalisation that Liverpool supporters should take the “majority” of the blame for what happened. | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games The inquest wasn't wrong. Yesterday's judgement on Duckenfield was nothing to do with the inquest findings. Even Duckenfield admits that his decisions that day led to the people being killed. You really are very ill informed. Then why wasn’t he found guilty? The fact is that his decision did lead to innocent people being crushed, but that it was an honest mistake made by a inexperienced guy trying to do his best in very difficult circimstances. That criteria doesn’t fit a manslaughter charge as was proven yesterday. So instead of 96 victims that day, there are now 97. It’s cost us millions of pounds to peruse a case that was never going to end in conviction and all to appease a bunch of biased people who in the main had compensation claims going through (that there was a blanket media ban on reporting). Like money is going to make you feel better 30 years later I’m not arguing whether he should or shouldn’t have been found guilty. That’s for the courts to decide and got good reasons they’ve made that decision. My issue is with your sweeping comment that “the majority of this blame lies with their supporters”. You are essentially shifting the blame from a man who was yesterday found innocent, to an entire group of people, with absolutely no evidence to back that up. And you’re also doing it in a disparaging and offensive way by referring to “whinging scousers”. That’s my issue. " I have seen what they do, they still do it to this day, so I refer to my earlier question, do u know what jibbing in is? It would seem you don’t | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games I know people who were there. I haven’t read the Guardian, thanks. Duckenfield was cleared of charges, that doesn’t mean the fans were to blame. It means it was a tragic accident. Your comments are disgusting - branding a whole group of Liverpool supporters in that way. How many games have you been to where you have seen Liverpool supporters acting in their natural environment? That’s not in the slightest bit relevant. I am not arguing that football hooliganism does not exist. I am also not saying that *some* Liverpool supporters, as well as supporters of a number of other teams, *can* at times act in ways that could be described as hooliganism. But you’re relating this to Hillsborough with no evidence. As I’ve repeatedly said, the part I have an issue with is your sweeping generalisation that Liverpool supporters should take the “majority” of the blame for what happened. " Who said anything about hooliganism? You clearly don’t understand what they did and why it caused the problem. And I would say that since that’s the point of all of this that’s it’s very much relevant | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games The inquest wasn't wrong. Yesterday's judgement on Duckenfield was nothing to do with the inquest findings. Even Duckenfield admits that his decisions that day led to the people being killed. You really are very ill informed. Then why wasn’t he found guilty? The fact is that his decision did lead to innocent people being crushed, but that it was an honest mistake made by a inexperienced guy trying to do his best in very difficult circimstances. That criteria doesn’t fit a manslaughter charge as was proven yesterday. So instead of 96 victims that day, there are now 97. It’s cost us millions of pounds to peruse a case that was never going to end in conviction and all to appease a bunch of biased people who in the main had compensation claims going through (that there was a blanket media ban on reporting). Like money is going to make you feel better 30 years later I’m not arguing whether he should or shouldn’t have been found guilty. That’s for the courts to decide and got good reasons they’ve made that decision. My issue is with your sweeping comment that “the majority of this blame lies with their supporters”. You are essentially shifting the blame from a man who was yesterday found innocent, to an entire group of people, with absolutely no evidence to back that up. And you’re also doing it in a disparaging and offensive way by referring to “whinging scousers”. That’s my issue. I have seen what they do, they still do it to this day, so I refer to my earlier question, do u know what jibbing in is? It would seem you don’t " There’s another sweeping generalisation. “I’ve seen what they do”.
No I don’t; nor do I care. What I do know, however, is a person with an uneducated and misinformed approach when I come across one. | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games I know people who were there. I haven’t read the Guardian, thanks. Duckenfield was cleared of charges, that doesn’t mean the fans were to blame. It means it was a tragic accident. Your comments are disgusting - branding a whole group of Liverpool supporters in that way. How many games have you been to where you have seen Liverpool supporters acting in their natural environment? That’s not in the slightest bit relevant. I am not arguing that football hooliganism does not exist. I am also not saying that *some* Liverpool supporters, as well as supporters of a number of other teams, *can* at times act in ways that could be described as hooliganism. But you’re relating this to Hillsborough with no evidence. As I’ve repeatedly said, the part I have an issue with is your sweeping generalisation that Liverpool supporters should take the “majority” of the blame for what happened. Who said anything about hooliganism? You clearly don’t understand what they did and why it caused the problem. And I would say that since that’s the point of all of this that’s it’s very much relevant " I asked you earlier to enlighten us all as to your knowledge of what they did. You didn’t .  | |||
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"finally admits his decision re opening gate (that he refused to do) was the reason the 96 fans died....... At long fucking last!!!! "he should have been tried years ago the rotten evil murderer! | |||
"finally admits his decision re opening gate (that he refused to do) was the reason the 96 fans died....... At long fucking last!!!! "Hillsborough match commander David Duckenfield has been cleared of the gross negligence manslaughter of 95 Liverpool fans who died at the 1989 FA Cup semi-final. The seven women and three men on the jury at Preston Crown Court returned its verdict on Thursday following a trial which lasted more than six weeks. The prosecution in the case alleged Duckenfield, 75, had a “personal responsibility” for what happened at the match between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest on April 15 1989, where 96 men, women and children, were fatally injured in a crush on the Leppings Lane terrace. | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games The inquest wasn't wrong. Yesterday's judgement on Duckenfield was nothing to do with the inquest findings. Even Duckenfield admits that his decisions that day led to the people being killed. You really are very ill informed. Then why wasn’t he found guilty? The fact is that his decision did lead to innocent people being crushed, but that it was an honest mistake made by a inexperienced guy trying to do his best in very difficult circimstances. That criteria doesn’t fit a manslaughter charge as was proven yesterday. So instead of 96 victims that day, there are now 97. It’s cost us millions of pounds to peruse a case that was never going to end in conviction and all to appease a bunch of biased people who in the main had compensation claims going through (that there was a blanket media ban on reporting). Like money is going to make you feel better 30 years later I’m not arguing whether he should or shouldn’t have been found guilty. That’s for the courts to decide and got good reasons they’ve made that decision. My issue is with your sweeping comment that “the majority of this blame lies with their supporters”. You are essentially shifting the blame from a man who was yesterday found innocent, to an entire group of people, with absolutely no evidence to back that up. And you’re also doing it in a disparaging and offensive way by referring to “whinging scousers”. That’s my issue. I have seen what they do, they still do it to this day, so I refer to my earlier question, do u know what jibbing in is? It would seem you don’t There’s another sweeping generalisation. “I’ve seen what they do”.
No I don’t; nor do I care. What I do know, however, is a person with an uneducated and misinformed approach when I come across one. "Maybe get some information on a subject before making a comment, you might fare better | |||
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"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games The inquest wasn't wrong. Yesterday's judgement on Duckenfield was nothing to do with the inquest findings. Even Duckenfield admits that his decisions that day led to the people being killed. You really are very ill informed. Then why wasn’t he found guilty? The fact is that his decision did lead to innocent people being crushed, but that it was an honest mistake made by a inexperienced guy trying to do his best in very difficult circimstances. That criteria doesn’t fit a manslaughter charge as was proven yesterday. So instead of 96 victims that day, there are now 97. It’s cost us millions of pounds to peruse a case that was never going to end in conviction and all to appease a bunch of biased people who in the main had compensation claims going through (that there was a blanket media ban on reporting). Like money is going to make you feel better 30 years later I’m not arguing whether he should or shouldn’t have been found guilty. That’s for the courts to decide and got good reasons they’ve made that decision. My issue is with your sweeping comment that “the majority of this blame lies with their supporters”. You are essentially shifting the blame from a man who was yesterday found innocent, to an entire group of people, with absolutely no evidence to back that up. And you’re also doing it in a disparaging and offensive way by referring to “whinging scousers”. That’s my issue. I have seen what they do, they still do it to this day, so I refer to my earlier question, do u know what jibbing in is? It would seem you don’t There’s another sweeping generalisation. “I’ve seen what they do”.
No I don’t; nor do I care. What I do know, however, is a person with an uneducated and misinformed approach when I come across one.
Maybe get some information on a subject before making a comment, you might fare better "Hilarious. And the irony is almost painful... | |||
"Great way to resurrect a year old thread. What a terrible perspective on a tragedy. The ignorance in some people is astounding." | |||
"finally admits his decision re opening gate (that he refused to do) was the reason the 96 fans died....... At long fucking last!!!!
Hillsborough match commander David Duckenfield has been cleared of the gross negligence manslaughter of 95 Liverpool fans who died at the 1989 FA Cup semi-final.
The seven women and three men on the jury at Preston Crown Court returned its verdict on Thursday following a trial which lasted more than six weeks.
The prosecution in the case alleged Duckenfield, 75, had a “personal responsibility” for what happened at the match between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest on April 15 1989, where 96 men, women and children, were fatally injured in a crush on the Leppings Lane terrace.
"What went on after is where the charges should've gone to. What happened was a tragedy, but no one did anything at the time to purposefully make it happen. But whatever was decided after from Thatcher down is what should've been investigated | |||
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"Couldn’t even read that comment ... being a scouser and my best friend losing her husband there and another friend of ours losing his life ... I have no words to that comment "From a Forest fan, on the other side of the pitch. You have my deepest condolences xxx | |||
"Couldn’t even read that comment ... being a scouser and my best friend losing her husband there and another friend of ours losing his life ... I have no words to that comment "I’m so sorry for your loss. Most of my family are from Liverpool and I knew people who were there on the day but thankfully they survived. This is why I was infuriated by his disgusting lack of respect. X | |||
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"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games The inquest wasn't wrong. Yesterday's judgement on Duckenfield was nothing to do with the inquest findings. Even Duckenfield admits that his decisions that day led to the people being killed. You really are very ill informed. Then why wasn’t he found guilty? The fact is that his decision did lead to innocent people being crushed, but that it was an honest mistake made by a inexperienced guy trying to do his best in very difficult circimstances. That criteria doesn’t fit a manslaughter charge as was proven yesterday. So instead of 96 victims that day, there are now 97. It’s cost us millions of pounds to peruse a case that was never going to end in conviction and all to appease a bunch of biased people who in the main had compensation claims going through (that there was a blanket media ban on reporting). Like money is going to make you feel better 30 years later I’m not arguing whether he should or shouldn’t have been found guilty. That’s for the courts to decide and got good reasons they’ve made that decision. My issue is with your sweeping comment that “the majority of this blame lies with their supporters”. You are essentially shifting the blame from a man who was yesterday found innocent, to an entire group of people, with absolutely no evidence to back that up. And you’re also doing it in a disparaging and offensive way by referring to “whinging scousers”. That’s my issue. I have seen what they do, they still do it to this day, so I refer to my earlier question, do u know what jibbing in is? It would seem you don’t There’s another sweeping generalisation. “I’ve seen what they do”.
No I don’t; nor do I care. What I do know, however, is a person with an uneducated and misinformed approach when I come across one.
Maybe get some information on a subject before making a comment, you might fare better "My irony-ometer just blew a fuse. | |||
"Good to see an innocent man finally vindicated. Maybe now we’ve heard the last of the whingeing scousers and they can take their compensation claims back where they came from. I’m sick of hearing scouse accents banging on about how unfair life is. If they did their homework they would see that while there’s blame on all sides, the majority of this blame lies with their own supporters who to this day still try to get into grounds without paying. Now enough public money has been spent on trying to appease them, hopefully they can move on and accept it as the terrible accident it was Wow, that's vicious and nasty. There were children that died that day. A full inquest has determined that the football fans were not at fault, they were crushed due to decisions made by the police. Seems your rant is an anti-scouse tirade. They were human beings with families, husbands, wives, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers who did nothing more than go to watch a game of football and were killed. You should be ashamed of what you wrote. The inquest was wrong, as was proven yesterday. The police made that decision because of the actions of the fans. Again, stop reading the guardian and get yourself to some football games The inquest wasn't wrong. Yesterday's judgement on Duckenfield was nothing to do with the inquest findings. Even Duckenfield admits that his decisions that day led to the people being killed. You really are very ill informed. Then why wasn’t he found guilty? The fact is that his decision did lead to innocent people being crushed, but that it was an honest mistake made by a inexperienced guy trying to do his best in very difficult circimstances. That criteria doesn’t fit a manslaughter charge as was proven yesterday. So instead of 96 victims that day, there are now 97. It’s cost us millions of pounds to peruse a case that was never going to end in conviction and all to appease a bunch of biased people who in the main had compensation claims going through (that there was a blanket media ban on reporting). Like money is going to make you feel better 30 years later I’m not arguing whether he should or shouldn’t have been found guilty. That’s for the courts to decide and got good reasons they’ve made that decision. My issue is with your sweeping comment that “the majority of this blame lies with their supporters”. You are essentially shifting the blame from a man who was yesterday found innocent, to an entire group of people, with absolutely no evidence to back that up. And you’re also doing it in a disparaging and offensive way by referring to “whinging scousers”. That’s my issue. I have seen what they do, they still do it to this day, so I refer to my earlier question, do u know what jibbing in is? It would seem you don’t There’s another sweeping generalisation. “I’ve seen what they do”.
No I don’t; nor do I care. What I do know, however, is a person with an uneducated and misinformed approach when I come across one.
Maybe get some information on a subject before making a comment, you might fare better
My irony-ometer just blew a fuse." and mine!! | |||
"So no one knows what jibbing in is? Seriously? And you all comment on a forum thread based on it? " I’ll take that as a no. Ridiculous | |||
"Couldn’t even read that comment ... being a scouser and my best friend losing her husband there and another friend of ours losing his life ... I have no words to that comment
From a Forest fan, on the other side of the pitch.
You have my deepest condolences xxx" x | |||
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"So no one knows what jibbing in is? Seriously? And you all comment on a forum thread based on it? " No we are commenting on a thread where innocent people were killed. It's got fuck all to do with "jibbing" I'm staying off this now, it's too personal for me. | |||
"So no one knows what jibbing in is? Seriously? And you all comment on a forum thread based on it? I’ll take that as a no. Ridiculous " No one cares. You lost pretty much everyone’s respect when you made disrespectful and ill informed comments about an entire city of people, and demonstrated such lack of intellect to not have realised that this is such a highly emotive topic that personally affects so many of us; therefore perhaps warrants a little sensitivity and tact. | |||
"So no one knows what jibbing in is? Seriously? And you all comment on a forum thread based on it? I’ll take that as a no. Ridiculous " Urban dictionary gives several definitions. I found the ham one quite amusing But as for your question. Yes I know what it means. I'm still shocked by your attitude though, and the fact you're trying to pass blame onto the actual innocent fans, based on the actions of a very small minority of other fans Shame I always thought you were a decent bloke | |||
"So no one knows what jibbing in is? Seriously? And you all comment on a forum thread based on it? No we are commenting on a thread where innocent people were killed. It's got fuck all to do with "jibbing" I'm staying off this now, it's too personal for me. " And me. X | |||
".. Thank you for reading, this is just my view, without being emotive about the who's why's what's and where's." Sorry, that should have been without being emotive | |||
".. Thank you for reading, this is just my view, without being emotive about the who's why's what's and where's. Sorry, that should have been without being emotive" Oh, and I am a Forest fan, I was watching on TV live excited about the game as much as the fans that were there. I saw what unfolded, I saw some of the images that were shown on the TV, I cried at what happened, I will never forget those images. | |||
".. Thank you for reading, this is just my view, without being emotive about the who's why's what's and where's. Sorry, that should have been without being emotive Oh, and I am a Forest fan, I was watching on TV live excited about the game as much as the fans that were there. I saw what unfolded, I saw some of the images that were shown on the TV, I cried at what happened, I will never forget those images." Some of the images have haunted me, too. Horrendous | |||
"So no one knows what jibbing in is? Seriously? And you all comment on a forum thread based on it? I’ll take that as a no. Ridiculous Urban dictionary gives several definitions. I found the ham one quite amusing But as for your question. Yes I know what it means. I'm still shocked by your attitude though, and the fact you're trying to pass blame onto the actual innocent fans, based on the actions of a very small minority of other fans Shame I always thought you were a decent bloke " I’m not saying they are all to blame, I’m saying that blame laid on all sides, but I’d say more so with ticketless fans jumping over turnstiles and crushing their own fans rather than an inexperienced policeman trying to do what he thought was best in horrific circumstances. If they don’t jump over and overload the terrace then he doesn’t feel the need to open the gate. It should never have gone to court and they’ve wasted all our money in the process. | |||
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"Ok here we go I know why I will say will upset a few people. It has to be said I am informed by the way, as I know both scousers and forest fans there that day as well as a number of Wednesday fans I am going to try and not let my own club colours come in to this. First off all, Liverpool fans jibbed all over the place in the 70s and 80s, I have read enough hooligan books on the time from my own club and Liverpool are mentioned often for doing the same. My understanding there was fake tickets produced for the match, and a number of fans were going to jib. Liverpool fans are no innocents, and what pisses me off, is the attitude that they can do no wrong. Look at heysel, even my own clubs firm said Liverpool and Everton away was dangerous. I know that from my own experiences in a relatively safe and modern time I have got pissed up at a semi final, I know also from people living in Sheffield at the time both blades and Wednesday that there was more Liverpool fans in the city. A lot were also pissed up!!!!!! I agreed Wednesday wasn’t safe, and spurs fans that went a few years before hand can attest to that, but my understanding was the police opened the gates because there was allegedly more fans outside and they couldn’t get in the ground as a lot had gone in to The leppings Central pen which was straight ahead, rather than left and right pens. Now I have never said that 96 people should have died and yes there were woman and children that died. People shouldn’t go to a match and die. However the police has a commander who was in experienced, there was more Liverpool fans that should have been there, Wednesday was a shit hole at the time, fans behaviour in general during the 80s. " Totally agree, it’s just a shame it’s cost us millions of pounds to find out what we already knew. Oh and jibbing in still goes on today | |||
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"With any accident or incident there are a host of causal factors than leads up to the final outcome. Generally there is rarely no one factor than is the direct cause of that accident. As well as what happened at Hillsborough, you have to put the whole incident in the context of the whole environment at the time. Firstly, this was an FA Cup Semi Final, an important game for both clubs which every fan that was there was eager to get in to see. Secondly, it was a neutral ground to both teams and both set of fans and so familiarity of the surroundings was lessened. Thirdly, it was at a time when football hooliganism was a significant risk and so all grounds had fencing around the pitch to stop pitch invasions and the like. Now, can you apportion blame to any one faction. A gate was opened which means hundred or thousands of fans started trying to get into the stand, eager to get their spot to watch this important game. Did those at the back know that trying to get in was causing a crush at the front? No, how could they? All they would have seen is the gate had been opened and so they were able to get into the stand. Did the ground staff and management know that the fencing would have prevented any overspill that may have happened and thus stopping the terrible crush injuries that were suffered? Again, no, how could they? The fencing was in place because regulations at the time needed the fencing to be there. Taking the policing issue at the time, crowd control and reducing the risk of impact of any perceived hooliganism was a high priority for the police. Now, I am surmising here, no one can truly know what was going through the minds of the officers on the ground, or the commanders. At first they may have seen people trying to get onto the pitch, something they were there to prevent. By the time a realisation that something else was going on it was tragically too late for the 96 lost souls. Could the police at the time have known that this was going to happen before it was too late? Again, no, how could they? Nothing like this had ever happened before. Ultimately the whole incident was tragic in the way things unfolded. No one person, or set of people could be held ultimately responsible, it was a tragic chain of events that lead to these lost lives. Emotions are going to be high, these were people. Families are going to be devastated and want to know the reasons why their loved ones died. Nothing can bring those 96 back, only things can be changed to EVER stop it happening again. Some things have changed, no fencing any more, but more stewarding. Hooliganism isn't as rife as it was back then. Lessons have been learned, more could be. I am a functional safety engineer, part of my role is to examine all the possibilities (no matter how extreme) of how a "system" can fail. Then, identify what "barriers" can be put in place to stop a chain of events leading to an accident or incident. The more "barriers" the better as a "system" needs to be designed such not the defeat of no 1 "barrier" leads to the accident, it needs multiple failures (as occurred at Hillsborough) to have the accident occur. In many circles it is called the "swiss cheese model". It doesn't matter who the finger is pointed out, those 96 are not coming back, and we need to ensure we have done all we possibly can to prevent it happening again. Thank you for reading, this is just my view, with being emotive about the who's why's what's and where's." Best. Reply. Posted. *doffs bowler | |||
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"As someone who was regularly at top level football matches in those days I have (and always have had) a slightly different take on the issue. From the outset the police and media instantly went for the "d*unken" football supporters. I suppose there was some (but only some) truth in that. I'm sure that quite a few (especially the late comers) will have had a beer or two before the match. We always did, and it was pretty much normal practise for many then. However to try and blame the supporters for doing what they normally did on match day just doesn't wash. The police should have known, and almost certainly did know, that this was normal. Especially at such a big game, and should have prepared for it. They didn't. Then again, in fairness to the police, standard policing of football matches in those days consisted of just keeping rival fans apart and avoiding a punch up. As I witnessed many times, proper crowd control was an alien concept to them. I couldn't count the number of times I was involved in similar crushes that could easily have turned into a similar result. Now I'll come to Duckinfield. I actually feel sorry for the guy. He was put in charge of a situation that he had little or no experience of, and made decisions accordingly. As we now know those decisions were terrible mistakes. However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed." The agreement could bring to an end a bitter war of words between the club and South Yorkshire Police which stemmed from crowd trouble after the Steel City Derby in March. Worries about fan safety at the match led to a report being commissioned from Manchester Metropolitan University into crowd control at the club’s Hillsborough ground. 2019 match play at this ground crowd safety is still a problem 30 years on swfc in 1978 had some very inadequate reports of health and safety. There was a crush in 1981 and then the deaths in 1987... both swfc knew the police knew the council knew all about the stadium not meeting the standards back in 1978 but have never done anything about health and safety from my stance on this someone somewhere has made this happen I blame all the swfc management the police the council | |||
" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed." Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. | |||
" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. " From the earliest safety assessments made by safety engineers commissioned in 1978 by SWFC, it was apparent that the stadium failed to meet minimum standards under the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975 and established in the Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds (known as the ‘Green Guide’), 1976. Documents released to the Panel confirm that the local Advisory Group for Safety at Sports Grounds carried out inadequate and poorly recorded inspections. There is clear evidence that SWFC’s primary consideration was cost and, to an extent, this was shared by its primary safety consultants, Eastwood & Partners. Taken from the 2012 report | |||
" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. From the earliest safety assessments made by safety engineers commissioned in 1978 by SWFC, it was apparent that the stadium failed to meet minimum standards under the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975 and established in the Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds (known as the ‘Green Guide’), 1976. Documents released to the Panel confirm that the local Advisory Group for Safety at Sports Grounds carried out inadequate and poorly recorded inspections. There is clear evidence that SWFC’s primary consideration was cost and, to an extent, this was shared by its primary safety consultants, Eastwood & Partners. Taken from the 2012 report " so who is to blame then swfc because of cost I would say the police knew how unsafe it was and it still is in 2019 | |||
" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. From the earliest safety assessments made by safety engineers commissioned in 1978 by SWFC, it was apparent that the stadium failed to meet minimum standards under the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975 and established in the Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds (known as the ‘Green Guide’), 1976. Documents released to the Panel confirm that the local Advisory Group for Safety at Sports Grounds carried out inadequate and poorly recorded inspections. There is clear evidence that SWFC’s primary consideration was cost and, to an extent, this was shared by its primary safety consultants, Eastwood & Partners. Taken from the 2012 report so who is to blame then swfc because of cost I would say the police knew how unsafe it was and it still is in 2019" opening of the gates lead the people to an early grave god rest their souls On the recommendation of SYP the construction of lateral fences in 1981 created three pens, with movement between pens limited to a small gate at the head of each lateral fence. According to SYP these gates were used to manage segregation at league matches but were not ‘stewarded’ by the police. | |||
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" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. From the earliest safety assessments made by safety engineers commissioned in 1978 by SWFC, it was apparent that the stadium failed to meet minimum standards under the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975 and established in the Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds (known as the ‘Green Guide’), 1976. Documents released to the Panel confirm that the local Advisory Group for Safety at Sports Grounds carried out inadequate and poorly recorded inspections. There is clear evidence that SWFC’s primary consideration was cost and, to an extent, this was shared by its primary safety consultants, Eastwood & Partners. Taken from the 2012 report so who is to blame then swfc because of cost I would say the police knew how unsafe it was and it still is in 2019 opening of the gates lead the people to an early grave god rest their souls On the recommendation of SYP the construction of lateral fences in 1981 created three pens, with movement between pens limited to a small gate at the head of each lateral fence. According to SYP these gates were used to manage segregation at league matches but were not ‘stewarded’ by the police." The disclosed documents show that police officers located on the inner concourse, between the turnstiles and the rear of the terrace, restricted access to the central tunnel under the West Stand, diverting fans to the side access points to the terrace, thus relieving pressure at the centre. Crowd density figures available to the Panel demonstrate that the maximum capacity for the terrace was significantly exceeded. | |||
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" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. From the earliest safety assessments made by safety engineers commissioned in 1978 by SWFC, it was apparent that the stadium failed to meet minimum standards under the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975 and established in the Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds (known as the ‘Green Guide’), 1976. Documents released to the Panel confirm that the local Advisory Group for Safety at Sports Grounds carried out inadequate and poorly recorded inspections. There is clear evidence that SWFC’s primary consideration was cost and, to an extent, this was shared by its primary safety consultants, Eastwood & Partners. Taken from the 2012 report so who is to blame then swfc because of cost I would say the police knew how unsafe it was and it still is in 2019 opening of the gates lead the people to an early grave god rest their souls On the recommendation of SYP the construction of lateral fences in 1981 created three pens, with movement between pens limited to a small gate at the head of each lateral fence. According to SYP these gates were used to manage segregation at league matches but were not ‘stewarded’ by the police. The disclosed documents show that police officers located on the inner concourse, between the turnstiles and the rear of the terrace, restricted access to the central tunnel under the West Stand, diverting fans to the side access points to the terrace, thus relieving pressure at the centre. Crowd density figures available to the Panel demonstrate that the maximum capacity for the terrace was significantly exceeded. " my conclusion is that the guilty party were SWFC and the police From the documents disclosed to the Panel, key issues – positioning of safety barriers, elevation of the tunnel, adequacy of the perimeter fence gates – were not discussed or recorded at the annual safety inspections. Following the delayed kickoff at the 1987 FA Cup Semi-Final and the crushing at the 1988 FA Cup Semi-Final, it is evident that debriefings held by all parties were inadequate. Crucial information arising from these events was not shared within SYP, nor was it exchanged between SYP and other agencies. There is no record provided by SWFC of debriefings held between Club stewards and their managers. The Club denied knowledge of any crowd-related concerns arising from the 1987 or 1988 FA Cup Semi-Finals. | |||
" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. " No they're not. They're both addressing the events at the time and offering an insight into cause and effect. What happened after is nothing to do with what happened at the time. From a cause and effect point of view, the cover up and smear campaign are nothing to do with it. | |||
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"The huge cover up since by all involved shows what spineless people they are. The fact that the 96 were smeared after death says it all..... I would have had a lot more respect if honesty and apologies had been offered. As we are coming up to an election I hope people remember Johnsons disgraceful comment regarding Hillsborough. What was also extremely offensive was Bettison's appointment too, when it was already clear he was NOT honest regarding what he claimed to have witnessed at Hillsborough. " | |||
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"The police are 100% to blame. They were responsible for the crowd control. Hence all of the lies and deceit. Witness statements changed and falsified. Why would they have done that otherwise. It was just a big cover up to protect their own arses. " Chief Superintendent Duckenfield held a briefing for senior officers on the day before the match. At that meeting he emphasised the importance of crowd safety. Briefings held by other senior officers, however, focused on potential crowd disorder, alcohol consumption, ticketless fans and the difficulties of managing Liverpool supporters. From the documents disclosed to the Panel, it is apparent that the collective policing mindset prioritised crowd control over crowd safety. Taken from the report made in 2012 and yes they were but what this suggests is that they were hell bent on crowd control not safety...knowing that the stadium had not met minimum standards in 1978 SWFC said it was the cost ..the cost of 96 innocent people I blame SWFC right from the onset here if you take time to read the full 300 odd page report made in 2012 it explains it more clearly in my mind Even the fire and ambulance service were not there to save lives it took how long 16 minutes... | |||
" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. No they're not. They're both addressing the events at the time and offering an insight into cause and effect. What happened after is nothing to do with what happened at the time. From a cause and effect point of view, the cover up and smear campaign are nothing to do with it." Hence me remaining passive without emotional interpretation | |||
" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. No they're not. They're both addressing the events at the time and offering an insight into cause and effect. What happened after is nothing to do with what happened at the time. From a cause and effect point of view, the cover up and smear campaign are nothing to do with it. Hence me remaining passive without emotional interpretation "Superintendent Roger Marshall was responsible for policing outside the stadium at the Leppings Lane end. As the crush at the turnstiles became severe he requested the opening of exit gates to allow fans into the stadium and relieve crowd pressure. He had no knowledge of the uneven distribution of fans on the Leppings Lane terrace. Similarly, the ground commander inside the stadium, Chief Superintendent Roger Greenwood, had no knowledge of the extreme situation developing outside the stadium. More from the report of 2012, neither commanders inside or outside knew of the crush going on but it was ordered not by Duckenfield ...two top officers who had no idea at all opening the gates killed them | |||
"finally admits his decision re opening gate (that he refused to do) was the reason the 96 fans died....... At long fucking last!!!! "The turnstiles were inadequate to process the crowd safely, and the rate of entry insufficient to prevent a dangerous build-up of people outside the ground. Top officers did not communicate to the officers inside the grounds on how to control the crush | |||
" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. No they're not. They're both addressing the events at the time and offering an insight into cause and effect. What happened after is nothing to do with what happened at the time. From a cause and effect point of view, the cover up and smear campaign are nothing to do with it. Hence me remaining passive without emotional interpretation
Superintendent Roger Marshall was responsible for policing outside the stadium at
the Leppings Lane end. As the crush at the turnstiles became severe he requested
the opening of exit gates to allow fans into the stadium and relieve crowd pressure.
He had no knowledge of the uneven distribution of fans on the Leppings Lane
terrace. Similarly, the ground commander inside the stadium, Chief Superintendent
Roger Greenwood, had no knowledge of the extreme situation developing outside
the stadium.
More from the report of 2012, neither commanders inside or outside knew of the crush going on but it was ordered not by Duckenfield ...two top officers who had no idea at all
opening the gates killed them "Nobody that day went to the ground with the intention of killing 96 people, anyone who suggests so is deluded. It was an unfortunate chain of events that linked together with the final tragic consequences | |||
| |||
"Is this Hillsborough?" Yes | |||
| |||
" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. No they're not. They're both addressing the events at the time and offering an insight into cause and effect. What happened after is nothing to do with what happened at the time. From a cause and effect point of view, the cover up and smear campaign are nothing to do with it. Hence me remaining passive without emotional interpretation
Superintendent Roger Marshall was responsible for policing outside the stadium at
the Leppings Lane end. As the crush at the turnstiles became severe he requested
the opening of exit gates to allow fans into the stadium and relieve crowd pressure.
He had no knowledge of the uneven distribution of fans on the Leppings Lane
terrace. Similarly, the ground commander inside the stadium, Chief Superintendent
Roger Greenwood, had no knowledge of the extreme situation developing outside
the stadium.
More from the report of 2012, neither commanders inside or outside knew of the crush going on but it was ordered not by Duckenfield ...two top officers who had no idea at all
opening the gates killed them
Nobody that day went to the ground with the intention of killing 96 people, anyone who suggests so is deluded.
It was an unfortunate chain of events that linked together with the final tragic consequences"100% correct. | |||
"finally admits his decision re opening gate (that he refused to do) was the reason the 96 fans died....... At long fucking last!!!!
The turnstiles were inadequate to process the crowd safely, and the rate of
entry insufficient to prevent a dangerous build-up of people outside the ground. Top officers did not communicate to the officers inside the grounds on how to control the crush "I'd take a few minutes to digest Monkey's post and consider it. Really, I would. | |||
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" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. No they're not. They're both addressing the events at the time and offering an insight into cause and effect. What happened after is nothing to do with what happened at the time. From a cause and effect point of view, the cover up and smear campaign are nothing to do with it. Hence me remaining passive without emotional interpretation
Superintendent Roger Marshall was responsible for policing outside the stadium at
the Leppings Lane end. As the crush at the turnstiles became severe he requested
the opening of exit gates to allow fans into the stadium and relieve crowd pressure.
He had no knowledge of the uneven distribution of fans on the Leppings Lane
terrace. Similarly, the ground commander inside the stadium, Chief Superintendent
Roger Greenwood, had no knowledge of the extreme situation developing outside
the stadium.
More from the report of 2012, neither commanders inside or outside knew of the crush going on but it was ordered not by Duckenfield ...two top officers who had no idea at all
opening the gates killed them
Nobody that day went to the ground with the intention of killing 96 people, anyone who suggests so is deluded.
It was an unfortunate chain of events that linked together with the final tragic consequences
100% correct. "Go and read the report for yourselves are you saying that 96 people got crushed to death by themselves give over and 110% wrong | |||
" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. No they're not. They're both addressing the events at the time and offering an insight into cause and effect. What happened after is nothing to do with what happened at the time. From a cause and effect point of view, the cover up and smear campaign are nothing to do with it. Hence me remaining passive without emotional interpretation
Superintendent Roger Marshall was responsible for policing outside the stadium at
the Leppings Lane end. As the crush at the turnstiles became severe he requested
the opening of exit gates to allow fans into the stadium and relieve crowd pressure.
He had no knowledge of the uneven distribution of fans on the Leppings Lane
terrace. Similarly, the ground commander inside the stadium, Chief Superintendent
Roger Greenwood, had no knowledge of the extreme situation developing outside
the stadium.
More from the report of 2012, neither commanders inside or outside knew of the crush going on but it was ordered not by Duckenfield ...two top officers who had no idea at all
opening the gates killed them
Nobody that day went to the ground with the intention of killing 96 people, anyone who suggests so is deluded.
It was an unfortunate chain of events that linked together with the final tragic consequences
100% correct.
Go and read the report for yourselves
are you saying that 96 people got crushed to death by themselves give over and 110% wrong "Nobody is saying that. Read Monkeys post above. He says it much more eloquently than I ever could. | |||
" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. No they're not. They're both addressing the events at the time and offering an insight into cause and effect. What happened after is nothing to do with what happened at the time. From a cause and effect point of view, the cover up and smear campaign are nothing to do with it. Hence me remaining passive without emotional interpretation
Superintendent Roger Marshall was responsible for policing outside the stadium at
the Leppings Lane end. As the crush at the turnstiles became severe he requested
the opening of exit gates to allow fans into the stadium and relieve crowd pressure.
He had no knowledge of the uneven distribution of fans on the Leppings Lane
terrace. Similarly, the ground commander inside the stadium, Chief Superintendent
Roger Greenwood, had no knowledge of the extreme situation developing outside
the stadium.
More from the report of 2012, neither commanders inside or outside knew of the crush going on but it was ordered not by Duckenfield ...two top officers who had no idea at all
opening the gates killed them
Nobody that day went to the ground with the intention of killing 96 people, anyone who suggests so is deluded.
It was an unfortunate chain of events that linked together with the final tragic consequences
100% correct. "Shall we start on the 737Max crashes and 346 lost souls there? That would be easier to apportion blame, dues to mass stupidity and cost cutting, and yet there too an unfortunate sequence of events led to 2 accidents with tragic consequences ... | |||
"finally admits his decision re opening gate (that he refused to do) was the reason the 96 fans died....... At long fucking last!!!!
The turnstiles were inadequate to process the crowd safely, and the rate of
entry insufficient to prevent a dangerous build-up of people outside the ground. Top officers did not communicate to the officers inside the grounds on how to control the crush
I'd take a few minutes to digest Monkey's post and consider it.
Really, I would.
"I will stick to my opinion thanks all the same go and read the 2012 report 96 people killed themselves according to yours mine will stay as such and admin might need to close this post | |||
" However that is no reason to make him the scapegoat for the complacency of the whole of South Yorkshire police in the run up to a game that he should never have been in charge of. While I will always have sympathy for the families of the victims. I do now think it is time to put the tragedy to bed. Both yourself and the safety officer guy above are completing ignoring the decades of deceit and cover-up. No they're not. They're both addressing the events at the time and offering an insight into cause and effect. What happened after is nothing to do with what happened at the time. From a cause and effect point of view, the cover up and smear campaign are nothing to do with it. Hence me remaining passive without emotional interpretation
Superintendent Roger Marshall was responsible for policing outside the stadium at
the Leppings Lane end. As the crush at the turnstiles became severe he requested
the opening of exit gates to allow fans into the stadium and relieve crowd pressure.
He had no knowledge of the uneven distribution of fans on the Leppings Lane
terrace. Similarly, the ground commander inside the stadium, Chief Superintendent
Roger Greenwood, had no knowledge of the extreme situation developing outside
the stadium.
More from the report of 2012, neither commanders inside or outside knew of the crush going on but it was ordered not by Duckenfield ...two top officers who had no idea at all
opening the gates killed them
Nobody that day went to the ground with the intention of killing 96 people, anyone who suggests so is deluded.
It was an unfortunate chain of events that linked together with the final tragic consequences
100% correct. "No, no, no, not even 50% correct. There was not an "unfortunate" chain of events. It was failure by the police to maintain the proper communication channels that, if followed, and were standard crowd safety procedures at that point, that led to the crush and killings that followed. | |||
"finally admits his decision re opening gate (that he refused to do) was the reason the 96 fans died....... At long fucking last!!!!
The turnstiles were inadequate to process the crowd safely, and the rate of
entry insufficient to prevent a dangerous build-up of people outside the ground. Top officers did not communicate to the officers inside the grounds on how to control the crush
I'd take a few minutes to digest Monkey's post and consider it.
Really, I would.
I will stick to my opinion thanks all the same go and read the 2012 report
96 people killed themselves according to yours mine will stay as such and admin might need to close this post "Why would they close it? It's breaking no rules that I can see. I can see why you'd like it closed though. | |||
"finally admits his decision re opening gate (that he refused to do) was the reason the 96 fans died....... At long fucking last!!!!
The turnstiles were inadequate to process the crowd safely, and the rate of
entry insufficient to prevent a dangerous build-up of people outside the ground. Top officers did not communicate to the officers inside the grounds on how to control the crush
I'd take a few minutes to digest Monkey's post and consider it.
Really, I would.
I will stick to my opinion thanks all the same go and read the 2012 report
96 people killed themselves according to yours mine will stay as such and admin might need to close this post
Why would they close it?
It's breaking no rules that I can see.
I can see why you'd like it closed though."It should be closed as respect for the 96 and the discussion that is taking place from people that quite honestly haven't got a clue. | |||
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"I agree with the chap who mentioned The Swiss Cheese model that is used in airline safety,many things have to line up to cause a tragedy. at least 24 things contributed to Hillsborough. " | |||
"I agree with the chap who mentioned The Swiss Cheese model that is used in airline safety,many things have to line up to cause a tragedy. at least 24 things contributed to Hillsborough. " | |||
"I agree with the chap who mentioned The Swiss Cheese model that is used in airline safety,many things have to line up to cause a tragedy. at least 24 things contributed to Hillsborough.
"But they'd still jail the pilot if it was found that he/she had acted recklessley. | |||
"I agree with the chap who mentioned The Swiss Cheese model that is used in airline safety,many things have to line up to cause a tragedy. at least 24 things contributed to Hillsborough.
But they'd still jail the pilot if it was found that he/she had acted recklessley."Who's been found guilty of acting recklessly? | |||
"I agree with the chap who mentioned The Swiss Cheese model that is used in airline safety,many things have to line up to cause a tragedy. at least 24 things contributed to Hillsborough.
But they'd still jail the pilot if it was found that he/she had acted recklessley.
Who's been found guilty of acting recklessly?
"No one, that's the problem. Inquest verdict was that they had been unlawfully killed. | |||
"I agree with the chap who mentioned The Swiss Cheese model that is used in airline safety,many things have to line up to cause a tragedy. at least 24 things contributed to Hillsborough.
But they'd still jail the pilot if it was found that he/she had acted recklessley.
Who's been found guilty of acting recklessly?
"Nobody. Rozzers get looked after, innit bruv. | |||
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"I agree with the chap who mentioned The Swiss Cheese model that is used in airline safety,many things have to line up to cause a tragedy. at least 24 things contributed to Hillsborough.
But they'd still jail the pilot if it was found that he/she had acted recklessley.
Who's been found guilty of acting recklessly?
No one, that's the problem.
Inquest verdict was that they had been unlawfully killed. "No, that's not the problem. It's really not. | |||
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"Whilst it’s important people are in charge of safety, people need to take responsibility for their own actions too. We live in a blame culture and singling our an old man 30 years after the event isn’t the way forward. No one person is to blame for most accidents. My issue lies with having to pay for the whole ridiculous mess and now having to listen to the constant moaning of no justice. I hope people can move on and get on with their lives, all of this emotion and upheaval can do them little good and the best case scenario would be for everyone to accept it as a tragedy and leave things be " Well that's a real different post to your first. Your first just looked like you hated scousers for some reason People have to remember these people went to a Football match and didn't get home. They were then blamed for killing each other and evidence changed for a massive cover up. I am glad the "whinging scousers" as you put it didn't shut up and fought for 30 years to get justice for their loved ones who were lied about so that people like you look silly when still spouting the lies that were shouted 30 years ago. To yesterdays verdict, I am in two minds over it, one half says someone should be held accountable and the other half thinks he made a huge cock up while doing his job and something which he has to live with. What I think is harder to stomach was the amount of cover ups that went on after he made his cock up | |||
"Whilst it’s important people are in charge of safety, people need to take responsibility for their own actions too. We live in a blame culture and singling our an old man 30 years after the event isn’t the way forward. No one person is to blame for most accidents. My issue lies with having to pay for the whole ridiculous mess and now having to listen to the constant moaning of no justice. I hope people can move on and get on with their lives, all of this emotion and upheaval can do them little good and the best case scenario would be for everyone to accept it as a tragedy and leave things be Well that's a real different post to your first. Your first just looked like you hated scousers for some reason People have to remember these people went to a Football match and didn't get home. They were then blamed for killing each other and evidence changed for a massive cover up. I am glad the "whinging scousers" as you put it didn't shut up and fought for 30 years to get justice for their loved ones who were lied about so that people like you look silly when still spouting the lies that were shouted 30 years ago. To yesterdays verdict, I am in two minds over it, one half says someone should be held accountable and the other half thinks he made a huge cock up while doing his job and something which he has to live with. What I think is harder to stomach was the amount of cover ups that went on after he made his cock up" Absolutely ... I tried to look at it as to what happened on the day, the casual factors etc, I don't know enough about what happened subsequently to be able to cast informed comment Ultimately I don't believe any one person can be wholly held responsible ... mistakes were made all over the place | |||
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"Whilst it’s important people are in charge of safety, people need to take responsibility for their own actions too. We live in a blame culture and singling our an old man 30 years after the event isn’t the way forward. No one person is to blame for most accidents. My issue lies with having to pay for the whole ridiculous mess and now having to listen to the constant moaning of no justice. I hope people can move on and get on with their lives, all of this emotion and upheaval can do them little good and the best case scenario would be for everyone to accept it as a tragedy and leave things be Well that's a real different post to your first. Your first just looked like you hated scousers for some reason People have to remember these people went to a Football match and didn't get home. They were then blamed for killing each other and evidence changed for a massive cover up. I am glad the "whinging scousers" as you put it didn't shut up and fought for 30 years to get justice for their loved ones who were lied about so that people like you look silly when still spouting the lies that were shouted 30 years ago. To yesterdays verdict, I am in two minds over it, one half says someone should be held accountable and the other half thinks he made a huge cock up while doing his job and something which he has to live with. What I think is harder to stomach was the amount of cover ups that went on after he made his cock up" | |||
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"Whilst it’s important people are in charge of safety, people need to take responsibility for their own actions too. We live in a blame culture and singling our an old man 30 years after the event isn’t the way forward. No one person is to blame for most accidents. My issue lies with having to pay for the whole ridiculous mess and now having to listen to the constant moaning of no justice. I hope people can move on and get on with their lives, all of this emotion and upheaval can do them little good and the best case scenario would be for everyone to accept it as a tragedy and leave things be Well that's a real different post to your first. Your first just looked like you hated scousers for some reason People have to remember these people went to a Football match and didn't get home. They were then blamed for killing each other and evidence changed for a massive cover up. I am glad the "whinging scousers" as you put it didn't shut up and fought for 30 years to get justice for their loved ones who were lied about so that people like you look silly when still spouting the lies that were shouted 30 years ago. To yesterdays verdict, I am in two minds over it, one half says someone should be held accountable and the other half thinks he made a huge cock up while doing his job and something which he has to live with. What I think is harder to stomach was the amount of cover ups that went on after he made his cock up" Agreed. This is a slight change of tune to his original post which absolutely read as a personal attack on everyone from Liverpool... | |||
