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VAT increase?
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"There is strong suggestions that VAT will have to rise to 20% to pay for the big hole in government finances. I do hope this doesnt't happen, as this is the most regressive taxes going. Hits the poorest hardest on everything except the extempt goods. Slightly changing the subject, how comes certain cafes/fast food outlets charge the same for takeaway food than for a sit down meal which VAT has to be added, but the takeaway doesnt?. " it's going to be 20% there's no way round it - hot food has vat added whether eaten in or taken away, Z | |||
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"Slightly changing the subject, how comes certain cafes/fast food outlets charge the same for takeaway food than for a sit down meal which VAT has to be added, but the takeaway doesnt?. " Because they are shafting the taxman by claiming all food sold is sit down. The difference you pay for takeway food is put into the 'other' accounts book that nobody ever sees. This is an old scam. | |||
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" Seems they prefer to take from the poor to give to the rich instead of the other way round. "If I hear that phrase one more fookin time ! ! ! ! ! ! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR... But at least you did say 30 years, which includes both Labour and Tory governments.  | |||
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"VAT takes from everyone and gives back to everyone (paying our debts, services, etc) not sure how this one makes the rich richer. Although that is a popular critique of the conservative party - justified or otherwise." Its quite simple really. When tax is graduated and levied on earnings / capital gains then the tax take is biased against the rich. When tax is flat, and levied on spending, as with VAT it is biased against those who have to spend a greater proportion of their income on day to day living expenses (that is the poor). not rocket science but it does seem to be beyond the grasp of many working class who continually vote for Tories | |||
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"There is strong suggestions that VAT will have to rise to 20% to pay for the big hole in government finances. I do hope this doesnt't happen, as this is the most regressive taxes going. Hits the poorest hardest on everything except the extempt goods. Slightly changing the subject, how comes certain cafes/fast food outlets charge the same for takeaway food than for a sit down meal which VAT has to be added, but the takeaway doesnt?. " my understanding was that VAT is payable on all hot takeaway food....but not cold takeaway food?? | |||
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"A person earning £200pw spends £100 on basics and pays £20 vat total spend £120 leaving that person £80 in their pocket A person earning £1000pw spends £100 on the same basics and pays £20 vat total spend £120 leaving that person £880 in their pocket Who is going to suffer more by the rise in vat the rich or the poor ... Vat is added to everyday basics everyone has to eat" The person earning £1,000pw will have to pay £5k on the new £20k car for the wife, plus £7.5k stamp duty on his new £250k house, but hold on a sec, he's got VAT on all his sollie fees too, plus the estate agency fees.. at 20%. All our £100pw worker has to fork out for is food.... but then as she's earning under £12k per year she can get all sorts of things on benefits. (just for personal interest I used the online calculator at direct.gov.uk to determine how much in benfits Siren and I could claim (joint salary of between £40-50k, own own house) and it turns out we're not claiming for stuff we should be claiming for. We're not earning enough, apparently. ) | |||
"A person earning £200pw spends £100 on basics and pays £20 vat total spend £120 leaving that person £80 in their pocket A person earning £1000pw spends £100 on the same basics and pays £20 vat total spend £120 leaving that person £880 in their pocket Who is going to suffer more by the rise in vat the rich or the poor ... Vat is added to everyday basics everyone has to eat The person earning £1,000pw will have to pay £5k on the new £20k car for the wife, plus £7.5k stamp duty on his new £250k house, but hold on a sec, he's got VAT on all his sollie fees too, plus the estate agency fees.. at 20%. All our £100pw worker has to fork out for is food.... but then as she's earning under £12k per year she can get all sorts of things on benefits. (just for personal interest I used the online calculator at direct.gov.uk to determine how much in benfits Siren and I could claim (joint salary of between £40-50k, own own house) and it turns out we're not claiming for stuff we should be claiming for. We're not earning enough, apparently. )"make sure check your tax credits things have changed a bit for them and if you are using registered childcare etc x | |||
"A person earning £200pw spends £100 on basics and pays £20 vat total spend £120 leaving that person £80 in their pocket A person earning £1000pw spends £100 on the same basics and pays £20 vat total spend £120 leaving that person £880 in their pocket I take it basics include food a lot of whch zero rated ! then we spend on luxeries more money you spend more tax you pay! has any labor goverment apart from brown when in crisis cut vat? Who is going to suffer more by the rise in vat the rich or the poor ... Vat is added to everyday basics everyone has to eat" | |||
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"A person earning £200pw spends £100 on basics and pays £20 vat total spend £120 leaving that person £80 in their pocket A person earning £1000pw spends £100 on the same basics and pays £20 vat total spend £120 leaving that person £880 in their pocket Who is going to suffer more by the rise in vat the rich or the poor ... Vat is added to everyday basics everyone has to eat The person earning £1,000pw will have to pay £5k on the new £20k car for the wife, plus £7.5k stamp duty on his new £250k house, but hold on a sec, he's got VAT on all his sollie fees too, plus the estate agency fees.. at 20%. All our £100pw worker has to fork out for is food.... but then as she's earning under £12k per year she can get all sorts of things on benefits. (just for personal interest I used the online calculator at direct.gov.uk to determine how much in benfits Siren and I could claim (joint salary of between £40-50k, own own house) and it turns out we're not claiming for stuff we should be claiming for. We're not earning enough, apparently. )"Nobody's forcing them to get a new car for the missus or to purchase a house in excess of £250k. However, we do all have to eat. | |||
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"Anybody who thinks that any government in the uk, of whtever hue, is going to do anything other than screw the population with taxes is kidding themselves." You never see a poor politician. | |||
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"of course, poor women don't have to spend money on Tampax, etc (Vat liable), cos they're always pregnant with the one-parent babies they have to scrounge money from the taxpayer" ALL of them? | |||
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"of course, poor women don't have to spend money on Tampax, etc (Vat liable), cos they're always pregnant with the one-parent babies they have to scrounge money from the taxpayer ALL of them? "yes, of cpurse, these working-class girls are all the same - not like proper public school Tory girls | |||
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"of course, poor women don't have to spend money on Tampax, etc (Vat liable), cos they're always pregnant with the one-parent babies they have to scrounge money from the taxpayer ALL of them?
yes, of cpurse, these working-class girls are all the same - not like proper public school Tory girls"I do hope that was said tongue in cheek! | |||
"Even the Director of Fiscal Studies says that Vat is a regressive tax that punishes the poor, he states a very strong case for Income Tax being the better way to increase revenue for the Treasury as it is a proportional tax. Vat is renowned for being more open to fraud and loopholes for the rich than Income Tax. You can't beat Tax at the point of earnings if you want to get the maximum income from a population." Isn't that just a little difficult for the thousands of self employed, sole traders, shopkeepers even, and businesses. Plenty of scope there for limiting one's tax liabilities. Difficult to avoid pay taxation as you spend. Vat at 20% Income Tax Allownace at £20 k would be a good point to aim for. | |||
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"of course, poor women don't have to spend money on Tampax, etc (Vat liable), cos they're always pregnant with the one-parent babies they have to scrounge money from the taxpayer ALL of them?
yes, of cpurse, these working-class girls are all the same - not like proper public school Tory girls"Well what else is one supposed to do when one cannot afford a TV and one also has to keep warm of a cold night too. Oh! and one finds a baby sooooo much cheaper than Tampax you know. | |||
"of course, poor women don't have to spend money on Tampax, etc (Vat liable), cos they're always pregnant with the one-parent babies they have to scrounge money from the taxpayer ALL of them?
yes, of cpurse, these working-class girls are all the same - not like proper public school Tory girls
I do hope that was said tongue in cheek!"Yes, it was - apologies to those that misunderstood! | |||
"I limit my Tax liablity every time I fill in my Vat return, something that the majority of people in the UK cannot do. Therefore Vat is not a proportional Tax...." limit or establish? not sure how you can limit your VAT unless you stop sales at a cut off point, which is unlikely. No most people cant complete a VAT form, just as well really as there would be excessive bureaucracy. And i know you will comment that you are an unpaid tax collector, but surely you would agree that you are merely collecting other peoples tax and passing it to HMRC? VAT is directly proportianl at x%. The more you spend the more you pay. | |||
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"I limit my Tax liablity because I can and do claim back most of the Vat in my life on my Vat return..... Let me put it in a simple way.... My elderly neighbour buys a £300 fridge she needs and she gets no Vat back... I buy the same £300 fridge and I claim back the Vat on the purchase... Hence Vat is not a proportional Tax. Income Tax costs the treasury 3p in the Pound to collect Vat costs the treasury 9p in the Pound to collect" Interesting!!!!! Let me put it this way : Presumably a) your elderly neighbour buys a domestic fridge for her home use. b) you buy the same domestic fridge for home or shop use? c) either way, or regardless, you claim the input tax back as business use? Too right, it's not proportional. | |||
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"Yeah, but when the VAT inspectors turn up and trawl through the receipts, then want to know where the fridge is, it'd better be in the office kitchen and not back at your house. Otherwise there's going to be back duty to pay, interest, and probably a fine too, not to mention all the rest of the stuff they find when they start going through the receipts with a fine-tooth comb. And they WILL find other stuff...... " ssssshhhh  | |||
"Yeah, but when the VAT inspectors turn up and trawl through the receipts, then want to know where the fridge is, it'd better be in the office kitchen and not back at your house. Otherwise there's going to be back duty to pay, interest, and probably a fine too, not to mention all the rest of the stuff they find when they start going through the receipts with a fine-tooth comb. And they WILL find other stuff...... " Sorry but a load of tosh, my business is run from my two small shops and from my home as well, you are fooling yourself if you don't realise the well documented facts about Vat in the UK and the European Union. In order to be the subject of a Tax Inspection (Vat) in this day and age you need to be suspected of 'Carousel Vat Fraud'. This is where 90% of all duty is defrauded, the problam is so great that 'Carousel Vat Fraud' is estimated to have cost the UK Government £350m at least in the last financial year alone. The days of the Vat man turning up at your door at Seven in the morning with a policeman have long gone for the vast majority of businneses. | |||
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" Sorry but a load of tosh, my business is run from my two small shops and from my home as well, you are fooling yourself if you don't realise the well documented facts about Vat in the UK and the European Union. In order to be the subject of a Tax Inspection (Vat) in this day and age you need to be suspected of 'Carousel Vat Fraud'. This is where 90% of all duty is defrauded, the problam is so great that 'Carousel Vat Fraud' is estimated to have cost the UK Government £350m at least in the last financial year alone. The days of the Vat man turning up at your door at Seven in the morning with a policeman have long gone for the vast majority of businneses. " And you are fooling yourself if you think the VAT man only comes out looking for Carousel fraudsters. It's true that they stopped doing routine visits about 10 years ago, it was once certain that you'd get a visit every 3 years or so, but they still do spot visits. Submit a couple of returns with wildly fluctuating figures and see what happens, you will get a phone call first to see what kind of business you are in, which may well be followed up by a visit if you are in a cash-rich field, or they don't like the way you speak to them on the phone. Fluctuations flag you up as a business which may be having cash-flow problems, and those businesses are most likely to "make errors" in their VAT returns. (And then go tits-up when the boss clears off with the loot) They don't bring a policeman with them unless there's a serious risk of other criminal activity like firearms or drugs, they certainly don't need a policeman to detain you. However, checking you are accounting for VAT correctly is not quite the same as busting criminal enterprises, but just as important to HM C&E. Trust me, if they do pay you a visit, an "ordinary" visit, ie. 2 nerdy accountants who won't engage you in un-necessary conversation, bring their own tea in a flask and won't accept your drinks or biscuits etc, they WILL find errors you have made, innocently or otherwise, and will take their pound of flesh. You will get plenty of notice of their visit, and there shouldn't be any suggestion that you have done anything with criminal intent, but as we all know, you are simply an unpaid tax collector for HM Revenue, and if you have made errors that's not their problem, you pay NOW. Most people carrying out some business activities from home will almost certainly have claimed something back that might not be absolutely 100% legit (apart from you and I, of course, he he), and it is their job to root it out, even if in the great scheme of things it is absolutely insignificant. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if they DON'T find errors, they will look all the harder for evidence of more serious fiddling, because, once again, apart from me and thee, EVERYONE submits the odd receipt that is only 70% valid. It's a useless task trying to plead that you sometimes do your marketing strategy in the garden, which is why you claimed the VAT back on that patio furniture and barbecue. The reputation of the VAT man for being a total cunt is well justified - few other agencies have as far reaching and draconian powers, and woe betide you if they do suspect you of fraud, you are guilty until you prove you are innocent. The Tax man will negotiate if you can't pay your debt immediately, the VAT man won't, he'll take the shirt off your back, that day. | |||
" Sorry but a load of tosh, my business is run from my two small shops and from my home as well, you are fooling yourself if you don't realise the well documented facts about Vat in the UK and the European Union. In order to be the subject of a Tax Inspection (Vat) in this day and age you need to be suspected of 'Carousel Vat Fraud'. This is where 90% of all duty is defrauded, the problam is so great that 'Carousel Vat Fraud' is estimated to have cost the UK Government £350m at least in the last financial year alone. The days of the Vat man turning up at your door at Seven in the morning with a policeman have long gone for the vast majority of businneses. And you are fooling yourself if you think the VAT man only comes out looking for Carousel fraudsters. It's true that they stopped doing routine visits about 10 years ago, it was once certain that you'd get a visit every 3 years or so, but they still do spot visits. Submit a couple of returns with wildly fluctuating figures and see what happens, you will get a phone call first to see what kind of business you are in, which may well be followed up by a visit if you are in a cash-rich field, or they don't like the way you speak to them on the phone. Fluctuations flag you up as a business which may be having cash-flow problems, and those businesses are most likely to "make errors" in their VAT returns. (And then go tits-up when the boss clears off with the loot) They don't bring a policeman with them unless there's a serious risk of other criminal activity like firearms or drugs, they certainly don't need a policeman to detain you. However, checking you are accounting for VAT correctly is not quite the same as busting criminal enterprises, but just as important to HM C&E. Trust me, if they do pay you a visit, an "ordinary" visit, ie. 2 nerdy accountants who won't engage you in un-necessary conversation, bring their own tea in a flask and won't accept your drinks or biscuits etc, they WILL find errors you have made, innocently or otherwise, and will take their pound of flesh. You will get plenty of notice of their visit, and there shouldn't be any suggestion that you have done anything with criminal intent, but as we all know, you are simply an unpaid tax collector for HM Revenue, and if you have made errors that's not their problem, you pay NOW. Most people carrying out some business activities from home will almost certainly have claimed something back that might not be absolutely 100% legit (apart from you and I, of course, he he), and it is their job to root it out, even if in the great scheme of things it is absolutely insignificant. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if they DON'T find errors, they will look all the harder for evidence of more serious fiddling, because, once again, apart from me and thee, EVERYONE submits the odd receipt that is only 70% valid. It's a useless task trying to plead that you sometimes do your marketing strategy in the garden, which is why you claimed the VAT back on that patio furniture and barbecue. The reputation of the VAT man for being a total cunt is well justified - few other agencies have as far reaching and draconian powers, and woe betide you if they do suspect you of fraud, you are guilty until you prove you are innocent. The Tax man will negotiate if you can't pay your debt immediately, the VAT man won't, he'll take the shirt off your back, that day. " Thanks but you are preaching to the converted | |||
" Sorry but a load of tosh, my business is run from my two small shops and from my home as well, you are fooling yourself if you don't realise the well documented facts about Vat in the UK and the European Union. In order to be the subject of a Tax Inspection (Vat) in this day and age you need to be suspected of 'Carousel Vat Fraud'. This is where 90% of all duty is defrauded, the problam is so great that 'Carousel Vat Fraud' is estimated to have cost the UK Government £350m at least in the last financial year alone. The days of the Vat man turning up at your door at Seven in the morning with a policeman have long gone for the vast majority of businneses. And you are fooling yourself if you think the VAT man only comes out looking for Carousel fraudsters. It's true that they stopped doing routine visits about 10 years ago, it was once certain that you'd get a visit every 3 years or so, but they still do spot visits. Submit a couple of returns with wildly fluctuating figures and see what happens, you will get a phone call first to see what kind of business you are in, which may well be followed up by a visit if you are in a cash-rich field, or they don't like the way you speak to them on the phone. Fluctuations flag you up as a business which may be having cash-flow problems, and those businesses are most likely to "make errors" in their VAT returns. (And then go tits-up when the boss clears off with the loot) They don't bring a policeman with them unless there's a serious risk of other criminal activity like firearms or drugs, they certainly don't need a policeman to detain you. However, checking you are accounting for VAT correctly is not quite the same as busting criminal enterprises, but just as important to HM C&E. Trust me, if they do pay you a visit, an "ordinary" visit, ie. 2 nerdy accountants who won't engage you in un-necessary conversation, bring their own tea in a flask and won't accept your drinks or biscuits etc, they WILL find errors you have made, innocently or otherwise, and will take their pound of flesh. You will get plenty of notice of their visit, and there shouldn't be any suggestion that you have done anything with criminal intent, but as we all know, you are simply an unpaid tax collector for HM Revenue, and if you have made errors that's not their problem, you pay NOW. Most people carrying out some business activities from home will almost certainly have claimed something back that might not be absolutely 100% legit (apart from you and I, of course, he he), and it is their job to root it out, even if in the great scheme of things it is absolutely insignificant. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if they DON'T find errors, they will look all the harder for evidence of more serious fiddling, because, once again, apart from me and thee, EVERYONE submits the odd receipt that is only 70% valid. It's a useless task trying to plead that you sometimes do your marketing strategy in the garden, which is why you claimed the VAT back on that patio furniture and barbecue. The reputation of the VAT man for being a total cunt is well justified - few other agencies have as far reaching and draconian powers, and woe betide you if they do suspect you of fraud, you are guilty until you prove you are innocent. The Tax man will negotiate if you can't pay your debt immediately, the VAT man won't, he'll take the shirt off your back, that day. Thanks but you are preaching to the converted " Also little known fact the vat inspecters are on comision | |||
" Sorry but a load of tosh, my business is run from my two small shops and from my home as well, you are fooling yourself if you don't realise the well documented facts about Vat in the UK and the European Union. In order to be the subject of a Tax Inspection (Vat) in this day and age you need to be suspected of 'Carousel Vat Fraud'. This is where 90% of all duty is defrauded, the problam is so great that 'Carousel Vat Fraud' is estimated to have cost the UK Government £350m at least in the last financial year alone. The days of the Vat man turning up at your door at Seven in the morning with a policeman have long gone for the vast majority of businneses. And you are fooling yourself if you think the VAT man only comes out looking for Carousel fraudsters. It's true that they stopped doing routine visits about 10 years ago, it was once certain that you'd get a visit every 3 years or so, but they still do spot visits. Submit a couple of returns with wildly fluctuating figures and see what happens, you will get a phone call first to see what kind of business you are in, which may well be followed up by a visit if you are in a cash-rich field, or they don't like the way you speak to them on the phone. Fluctuations flag you up as a business which may be having cash-flow problems, and those businesses are most likely to "make errors" in their VAT returns. (And then go tits-up when the boss clears off with the loot) They don't bring a policeman with them unless there's a serious risk of other criminal activity like firearms or drugs, they certainly don't need a policeman to detain you. However, checking you are accounting for VAT correctly is not quite the same as busting criminal enterprises, but just as important to HM C&E. Trust me, if they do pay you a visit, an "ordinary" visit, ie. 2 nerdy accountants who won't engage you in un-necessary conversation, bring their own tea in a flask and won't accept your drinks or biscuits etc, they WILL find errors you have made, innocently or otherwise, and will take their pound of flesh. You will get plenty of notice of their visit, and there shouldn't be any suggestion that you have done anything with criminal intent, but as we all know, you are simply an unpaid tax collector for HM Revenue, and if you have made errors that's not their problem, you pay NOW. Most people carrying out some business activities from home will almost certainly have claimed something back that might not be absolutely 100% legit (apart from you and I, of course, he he), and it is their job to root it out, even if in the great scheme of things it is absolutely insignificant. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if they DON'T find errors, they will look all the harder for evidence of more serious fiddling, because, once again, apart from me and thee, EVERYONE submits the odd receipt that is only 70% valid. It's a useless task trying to plead that you sometimes do your marketing strategy in the garden, which is why you claimed the VAT back on that patio furniture and barbecue. The reputation of the VAT man for being a total cunt is well justified - few other agencies have as far reaching and draconian powers, and woe betide you if they do suspect you of fraud, you are guilty until you prove you are innocent. The Tax man will negotiate if you can't pay your debt immediately, the VAT man won't, he'll take the shirt off your back, that day. Thanks but you are preaching to the converted Also little known fact the vat inspecters are on comision" Urban Myth | |||
